Pulse jet engines?
01-09-2014, 06:08 PM
#201
My Feedback: (6)
I agree completely with Art. The privileges that we have were not easily won. I have been flying turbines since 1999 and I recall all of the crap that the JPO and all of us went through. The last thing we need is some goofball screwing it all up and getting turbines/pulsejets banned under the AMA. Fly safe and obey the rules!
01-09-2014, 06:15 PM
#202
My Feedback: (13)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Prior Lake,
MN
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why wouldn't the Diamond Dust be sufficient.
It just says "high speed aircraft designed to fly 150 MPH or faster".
It doesn't say anything about the type of plane design.
I'll bet you are a jet flyer.
Greg
It just says "high speed aircraft designed to fly 150 MPH or faster".
It doesn't say anything about the type of plane design.
I'll bet you are a jet flyer.
Greg
01-09-2014, 06:23 PM
#203
My Feedback: (6)
I see no reason why the Diamond Dust would not be sufficient. I had one many years ago with a K&B Ducted Fan engine on it. That thing was unreal!!! You could launch it just by letting go of it at full throttle. And with it's small size, the sensation of speed was incredible!!!!
01-10-2014, 10:15 AM
#204
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
You can crack 100 with a Diamond Dust with a good .32 and 8-8. An OS .46 or TT .46 on a 10-7 or 9-8 will do it. It's an easy threshold to cross.
Actually I know a Demon will do it easily on a .32, I figured the DD would too, but perhaps it's on the line.
Actually I know a Demon will do it easily on a .32, I figured the DD would too, but perhaps it's on the line.
Last edited by MJD; 01-10-2014 at 05:10 PM.
01-10-2014, 11:25 AM
#205
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Holland Patent,
NY
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greg,
I NEVER stated that a Diamond Dust would not be sufficient to qualify your credentials to fly an RC pulse jet model. You yourself stated that it would only do about 110 MPH on a good day(as powered with an piped OS 32). This is far short of the current 150 MPH requirement. What IS required is a self-signed declaration that you have completed a minimum of fifty (50) flights with a high speed aircraft capable of 150 MPH or faster. The AMA wants to see this declaration,preferably with log book entries stating when and where these flights were conducted. Note that it is the NUMBER of flights with such an aircraft. You also need to show a self-signed declaration of knowlege regarding your model Control Setup, Ground Handling and pulse jet operation. These declarations must be shown to an AMA Contest Director if flying at an AMA sanctioned event, or an AMA Chartered Club Official if at an AMA Chartered Club field. If your case at a private field, I would show them to the site owner/land owner.
BTW, I currently fly RC turbine sport and scale jets (with a Fixed Wing Turbine Waiver #2570- issued in 2005), EDF and glow-powered sport/scale jets,glow powered prop jets, E-sailplanes including hot liners. I previously flew RC Pylon (1/2 A, Quarter Midget, Formula I, FAI F3D). As a teenager I flew controline speed, including Jet Speed, combat, and rat racing. I do not see where my modeling interests or background have anything to do with your compliance to AMA Safety Regulations for RC Pulse Jets. It just seems like a "cheap shot" at me.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
I NEVER stated that a Diamond Dust would not be sufficient to qualify your credentials to fly an RC pulse jet model. You yourself stated that it would only do about 110 MPH on a good day(as powered with an piped OS 32). This is far short of the current 150 MPH requirement. What IS required is a self-signed declaration that you have completed a minimum of fifty (50) flights with a high speed aircraft capable of 150 MPH or faster. The AMA wants to see this declaration,preferably with log book entries stating when and where these flights were conducted. Note that it is the NUMBER of flights with such an aircraft. You also need to show a self-signed declaration of knowlege regarding your model Control Setup, Ground Handling and pulse jet operation. These declarations must be shown to an AMA Contest Director if flying at an AMA sanctioned event, or an AMA Chartered Club Official if at an AMA Chartered Club field. If your case at a private field, I would show them to the site owner/land owner.
BTW, I currently fly RC turbine sport and scale jets (with a Fixed Wing Turbine Waiver #2570- issued in 2005), EDF and glow-powered sport/scale jets,glow powered prop jets, E-sailplanes including hot liners. I previously flew RC Pylon (1/2 A, Quarter Midget, Formula I, FAI F3D). As a teenager I flew controline speed, including Jet Speed, combat, and rat racing. I do not see where my modeling interests or background have anything to do with your compliance to AMA Safety Regulations for RC Pulse Jets. It just seems like a "cheap shot" at me.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
01-10-2014, 01:56 PM
#206
My Feedback: (13)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Prior Lake,
MN
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You most certainly did say that a Diamond isn't sufficient.
Art...Go back to post #200. You said in your post, and this is a quote " As for proof of flying an RC model capable of 150 MPH, the Diamond Dust boxtop is not sufficent."
As far as a plane capable of 150 mph or faster, you have to zero in on the key word in that sentence. It clearly says a plane capable, it doesn't say that you have to fly that fast. If they wanted you to fly that speed they would have said that you need to fly for 50 hours at a sustained speed of 150 mph or faster.
It wasn't a cheap shot, just pointing out what most flyers think of a lot of RC jet pilots. I didn't even know this post was in the RC Jet area, until after I asked if you were a jet flyer, and noticed in the lower right corner of my screen that i was in RC jets. I would have bet a lot of money you were a jet pilot, just because of your attitude.
It really makes no difference, as I am done with this thread, and am unsubscribing. I am also contacting my district AMA representative and get the facts about what the AMA requires of pulse jet pilots because you apparently have your version, but I believe you are wrong.
Greg
Art...Go back to post #200. You said in your post, and this is a quote " As for proof of flying an RC model capable of 150 MPH, the Diamond Dust boxtop is not sufficent."
As far as a plane capable of 150 mph or faster, you have to zero in on the key word in that sentence. It clearly says a plane capable, it doesn't say that you have to fly that fast. If they wanted you to fly that speed they would have said that you need to fly for 50 hours at a sustained speed of 150 mph or faster.
It wasn't a cheap shot, just pointing out what most flyers think of a lot of RC jet pilots. I didn't even know this post was in the RC Jet area, until after I asked if you were a jet flyer, and noticed in the lower right corner of my screen that i was in RC jets. I would have bet a lot of money you were a jet pilot, just because of your attitude.
It really makes no difference, as I am done with this thread, and am unsubscribing. I am also contacting my district AMA representative and get the facts about what the AMA requires of pulse jet pilots because you apparently have your version, but I believe you are wrong.
Greg
Last edited by OldRookie; 01-10-2014 at 02:05 PM.
01-10-2014, 03:10 PM
#207
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Holland Patent,
NY
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greg,
Let us all know what your AMA District Rep says about all this. Note that I agree that the wording of the reg is confusing and the speed requirement should be dropped to 100 MPH, the same as for a fixed wing turbine waiver. Good luck with your pulse jet project and note that that I've been wrong before on similar issues. Over and out.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Let us all know what your AMA District Rep says about all this. Note that I agree that the wording of the reg is confusing and the speed requirement should be dropped to 100 MPH, the same as for a fixed wing turbine waiver. Good luck with your pulse jet project and note that that I've been wrong before on similar issues. Over and out.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
01-12-2014, 08:01 PM
#208
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: broome, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-28-2014, 10:55 AM
#209
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , NV
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speed, Schmeed. If I remember right the u/c Jet speed record is something over 180 mph. BUT The "dynajet" type can be heard for several miles. As a kid I static ran mine in the back yard. The neighborhood kids threw themselvers on the ground screaming from fear of the noise. Want lose your field? Fly one around for 5 minutes, if it is internally mounted the odds are good it will burn up before that. The stainless tail pipe get red hot and turns black when it cools. It also shoots a blue flame about a foot long out the tail pipe. Go electric. Shees.
03-28-2014, 12:45 PM
#210
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I call this fear-mongering. "Go electric" seems to be some people's answer for everything. My suggestion would be to go forth and enjoy electric, and leave others alone. The only bloody thing about a pulsejet that makes it stand out in the crowd is the noise. So maybe don't fly them where they piss people off.
I suppose the problem is that it is the only form of model propulsion capable of starting a fire. After all, LiPo's never burn up models or grass when they are shorted or punctured. And who ever heard of a hot start, or a crash and burn, or any other kind of fire hazard with a turbine? I get it now.
I suppose the problem is that it is the only form of model propulsion capable of starting a fire. After all, LiPo's never burn up models or grass when they are shorted or punctured. And who ever heard of a hot start, or a crash and burn, or any other kind of fire hazard with a turbine? I get it now.
05-03-2014, 04:45 PM
#211
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Perth Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here you go.Check this out.Hobbyking Pulse Jet takes to RC finally in the best way yet.It used a Cline Regulator from Bruce Tharp in USA to do it perfectly.Used Methanol fuel I believe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjF...ature=youtu.be
07-17-2014, 10:22 AM
#213
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Meridianville,
AL
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm 60 years old and I remember having one of those CO2 based engines as a kid. I ordered it from a comic book I think. I don't remember who the mfg was but the principle was the same as the MEW #601. Sure wish I'd held on to that thing. What a conversation piece.
DGM,
Great description on pulse jet operation from a true user. Note that there were several model pulse jets offered in the 50's and 70's.
The US-made Dyna Jet Redhead was the most popular and took most of the winning hardware in controline jet speed. The MEW 307 (?) was another version but not as refined as the Dyna Jet. Minnesota Engine Works (MEW) also made a # 601 which was a standard CO2 cartridge with a threaded plug that had a tiny hole drilled in it. To run the engine (?) you filled the cartridge with gasoline or other flammable fluid and screwed back the plug. Under the cartridge was a small metal tray with a ceramic wool that was saturated with alcohol. The plug end of the cartridge faced a short pipe similar to a bellmouth turbine tailpipe. To run the engine you lit the alcohol soaked wool which would heat the cartridge and spray a fine mist of gasoline into the tailpipe where it burned to create a minimal thrust. It was truly hazardous as I had the cartridge rupture and spew a mist of gas which quickly ignited in a fireball. So much for that!
OS manufactured 2 versions of their Tiger jet, one a clone of the Dyna Jet and a smaller version , which I beleve they called a Tiger II. Some parts, fuel injector, petal valve, spark plug were interchangeable with the Dyna Jet. Another company (don't recall) made a Sono or Sonic Jet which was smaller that the Dyna Jet but I have no other info on this. There's a pulse jet supplier called Bailey that offers pulse jet rngines primarily to the controline speed crowd. Several model pulse jets were, or are, made in Europe, either Germany or Italy, along with suitable models, usually delta wings. Here in the US, Bruce Tharpe designed and flew several pulse jet powered RC models and he may add some info here. There's a website, www.pulsejets.com and www.beck-technologies.com for further info on all this.
I've ordered the HK pulse jet and will report on it upon receipt. Stay tuned.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Great description on pulse jet operation from a true user. Note that there were several model pulse jets offered in the 50's and 70's.
The US-made Dyna Jet Redhead was the most popular and took most of the winning hardware in controline jet speed. The MEW 307 (?) was another version but not as refined as the Dyna Jet. Minnesota Engine Works (MEW) also made a # 601 which was a standard CO2 cartridge with a threaded plug that had a tiny hole drilled in it. To run the engine (?) you filled the cartridge with gasoline or other flammable fluid and screwed back the plug. Under the cartridge was a small metal tray with a ceramic wool that was saturated with alcohol. The plug end of the cartridge faced a short pipe similar to a bellmouth turbine tailpipe. To run the engine you lit the alcohol soaked wool which would heat the cartridge and spray a fine mist of gasoline into the tailpipe where it burned to create a minimal thrust. It was truly hazardous as I had the cartridge rupture and spew a mist of gas which quickly ignited in a fireball. So much for that!
OS manufactured 2 versions of their Tiger jet, one a clone of the Dyna Jet and a smaller version , which I beleve they called a Tiger II. Some parts, fuel injector, petal valve, spark plug were interchangeable with the Dyna Jet. Another company (don't recall) made a Sono or Sonic Jet which was smaller that the Dyna Jet but I have no other info on this. There's a pulse jet supplier called Bailey that offers pulse jet rngines primarily to the controline speed crowd. Several model pulse jets were, or are, made in Europe, either Germany or Italy, along with suitable models, usually delta wings. Here in the US, Bruce Tharpe designed and flew several pulse jet powered RC models and he may add some info here. There's a website, www.pulsejets.com and www.beck-technologies.com for further info on all this.
I've ordered the HK pulse jet and will report on it upon receipt. Stay tuned.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
01-22-2015, 02:56 PM
#214
WOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
I just got word that the AMA has approved a new set of Pulse Jet rules.
The new rules will be posed up on the AMA website in the next few days.
I will wait for that just in case there are any changes from the last draft that I saw and I will post the new rules up here also.
I think most of us will be happy with the results.
Now where is that credit card........
I just got word that the AMA has approved a new set of Pulse Jet rules.
The new rules will be posed up on the AMA website in the next few days.
I will wait for that just in case there are any changes from the last draft that I saw and I will post the new rules up here also.
I think most of us will be happy with the results.
Now where is that credit card........
01-22-2015, 04:55 PM
#215
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Congratulations and about time! Your last set of pulse jet regs date back to what, 1953?
I hope there is enough activity soon to warrant a social event in the future. Or would that be an anti-social event? Not for the participants! I'm making plans to attend D.O.S.T. this year, though just to hang out. It cost me enough to ship the darn aircraft over here, I'm not humping it back over the ocean again. Muncie's a 7hr drive from here.
Geneseo would be a heck of a site for the NE pulsejet crowd.
I hope there is enough activity soon to warrant a social event in the future. Or would that be an anti-social event? Not for the participants! I'm making plans to attend D.O.S.T. this year, though just to hang out. It cost me enough to ship the darn aircraft over here, I'm not humping it back over the ocean again. Muncie's a 7hr drive from here.
Geneseo would be a heck of a site for the NE pulsejet crowd.
Last edited by MJD; 01-22-2015 at 04:58 PM.
01-23-2015, 06:06 PM
#217
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
The AMA got the new Pulse Jet rules up on the AMA website.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-q.pdf
[ATTACH]2067040[/IMG]
Emails have been sent........
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-q.pdf
[ATTACH]2067040[/IMG]
Emails have been sent........
I warned Hubert to expect some engine and airframe orders.
So this means.. when is the first PJ Party?
01-24-2015, 04:27 AM
#218
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Perth Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks Like good rules.Well done.
I use a Australian INTAIRCO Solenoid Relay Switch to shut my JetCat Jet Turbine fuel solenoid switch off.It is for Gas Turbine Models and works perfect as a back up safety stop on Pulse Jet RC models also. www.INTAIRCO.net . Dont use Lipo batteries in RC PJs ether as they brake down under vibration from the PJ.
I use a Australian INTAIRCO Solenoid Relay Switch to shut my JetCat Jet Turbine fuel solenoid switch off.It is for Gas Turbine Models and works perfect as a back up safety stop on Pulse Jet RC models also. www.INTAIRCO.net . Dont use Lipo batteries in RC PJs ether as they brake down under vibration from the PJ.
01-24-2015, 09:19 AM
#220
Looks Like good rules.Well done.
I use a Australian INTAIRCO Solenoid Relay Switch to shut my JetCat Jet Turbine fuel solenoid switch off.It is for Gas Turbine Models and works perfect as a back up safety stop on Pulse Jet RC models also. www.INTAIRCO.net . Dont use Lipo batteries in RC PJs ether as they brake down under vibration from the PJ.
I use a Australian INTAIRCO Solenoid Relay Switch to shut my JetCat Jet Turbine fuel solenoid switch off.It is for Gas Turbine Models and works perfect as a back up safety stop on Pulse Jet RC models also. www.INTAIRCO.net . Dont use Lipo batteries in RC PJs ether as they brake down under vibration from the PJ.
The following is all just me thinking out loud to start discussion.
My guess, is that the soft LiFe may have similar issues where the type in a metal can might not.
I wonder what is a good way to test this???????
I know LiPo holds up just fine on gaser helies and they have a lot of vibration. But a heli is more of a sinusoidal wave form to the vibration where the impulses from a PJ will be sharper. the engine vibration on a gasser heli is around 200 - 250 Hz right in the same range as a PJ, the vibrations from he main rotor are around 30 - 35 Hz well below the PJ.
On a PJ aircraft, is there a lot of vibration due to the pulsing thrust? Does the battery just need some padding like we did in the olden days?
I am torn on whether there should be a separate PJ forum.
I can certainly understand having all info in one place and easy to find.
But then I can see where there would be a lot more traffic and exposure if kept in the jet forum.
Last edited by flyinfool1; 01-24-2015 at 09:22 AM.
01-25-2015, 04:59 AM
#225
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Perth Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standard RC Batteries are OK I think.Most use two lots.One for the fuel pump & one set for the controls.I wanted to use Lipo and a CC-BEC voltage reducer but found the Lipo dropped its voltage on start up then the ESC went into fail safe & stopped the er90 PJ.A A-123 two cell Battery now powers everything on 6.6volts .I will wrap it up also but when this battery goes flat it does it fast.I had no problem with Lipo batteries when on the er90 test bed just only when in the INFERNO.