Sebart Avanti S Build Thread w/KT 180
04-14-2014, 08:13 AM
#204
Exciting day at the field, lost my Mig-29, but the avanti and ultra bandit flights went well.
Thrust vector rocks! Even on the maiden, I did some nice flat spins with smoke, really cool. I need to put more travel in the elevator thrust vector to get it to tumble. We fly on a runway where the Navy practices carrier landings. Big seams in the concrete, landing gear was fine. Second flight I had it fully loaded, remember, I added a 50oz tank. Even with that weight, the Kingtech 180 climbed straight up :-)
I was surprised that flying it around with thrust vector on wasn't overly sensitive, I forgot to switch it off for a while on the second flight.
I inhibited the ATV on the thrust vector on the first two flight modes, but the gyro was still working. So, I just bypassed the gyro's for the first flights. I know what I need to do, but I was trying to run the gyros without an on/off.
Two flights, very uneventful. CG was about right at 250mm. Maybe move it a hair back, didn't do a ton of inverted flying, but it did require a fair amount of down to keep it going.
I had a small amount of down elevator mixed in for the flaps, way too much. I think it might need a touch of up or at neutral, did you guys already flying experience this? I did not use the full amount of down flaps. With the 180, it comes in hot, I need to fine tune my landings to slow it down a bit.
Thrust vector rocks! Even on the maiden, I did some nice flat spins with smoke, really cool. I need to put more travel in the elevator thrust vector to get it to tumble. We fly on a runway where the Navy practices carrier landings. Big seams in the concrete, landing gear was fine. Second flight I had it fully loaded, remember, I added a 50oz tank. Even with that weight, the Kingtech 180 climbed straight up :-)
I was surprised that flying it around with thrust vector on wasn't overly sensitive, I forgot to switch it off for a while on the second flight.
I inhibited the ATV on the thrust vector on the first two flight modes, but the gyro was still working. So, I just bypassed the gyro's for the first flights. I know what I need to do, but I was trying to run the gyros without an on/off.
Two flights, very uneventful. CG was about right at 250mm. Maybe move it a hair back, didn't do a ton of inverted flying, but it did require a fair amount of down to keep it going.
I had a small amount of down elevator mixed in for the flaps, way too much. I think it might need a touch of up or at neutral, did you guys already flying experience this? I did not use the full amount of down flaps. With the 180, it comes in hot, I need to fine tune my landings to slow it down a bit.
04-14-2014, 11:12 AM
#205
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Sorry to hear about mig
glad all went well with avanti
i use minimal flap for landing.
Any wheelies on landing. It does them great. Tried to do on my reaction and the damn thing took off again
250mm was my cg
no vectoring here however
glad all went well with avanti
i use minimal flap for landing.
Any wheelies on landing. It does them great. Tried to do on my reaction and the damn thing took off again
250mm was my cg
no vectoring here however
04-14-2014, 09:55 PM
#207
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Comes in hot with a 180 ?
Number 27 has a 170 in his and it comes in so slow like a snail .
You must have your setup wrong if this jet comes in fast ?
You need to put the throttle stick back to idle sooner ?
Mine with a 140 in also comes in so slow .
next to no flap and no mixes it a *****cat ...
Number 27 has a 170 in his and it comes in so slow like a snail .
You must have your setup wrong if this jet comes in fast ?
You need to put the throttle stick back to idle sooner ?
Mine with a 140 in also comes in so slow .
next to no flap and no mixes it a *****cat ...
04-15-2014, 06:35 AM
#208
Comes in hot with a 180 ?
Number 27 has a 170 in his and it comes in so slow like a snail .
You must have your setup wrong if this jet comes in fast ?
You need to put the throttle stick back to idle sooner ?
Mine with a 140 in also comes in so slow .
next to no flap and no mixes it a *****cat ...
Number 27 has a 170 in his and it comes in so slow like a snail .
You must have your setup wrong if this jet comes in fast ?
You need to put the throttle stick back to idle sooner ?
Mine with a 140 in also comes in so slow .
next to no flap and no mixes it a *****cat ...
04-26-2014, 06:40 AM
#210
You'll have to let us know how it handles in the air with regard to the CG? I was thinking that maybe your CG is a bit more forward than it might need to be and that would make it land hotter. The other thing is that if it is nose heavy, you could pull some of that lead out of the nose. With that vectored thrust pipe you can only put the pipe and the turbine in one spot and Todd is already talking about mine will probably need some nose weight.
04-26-2014, 07:10 AM
#211
I'm at 250 now, and I think you are right it could move back. Honestly, I was just too lazy to put both batteries up front, I used a lipo for the flight stuff and don't leave them in the plane to charge, so had to have easy access. I put 9oz in the nose, plus a big A123 as far forward as possible. Will get a better feel for it today. Also flying on our rough grass field, it will be a good test for the landing gear.
04-26-2014, 04:26 PM
#212
Three more flights today. One pretty hard landing on the grass, landed with a tail wind and it was gusty. Also dead sticked one, didn't fill second tank all the way and ran out of gas. The landing gear got tested pretty well on our field, everything looks good. I was leary of the shorter nose gear and getting it to get off the ground, wasn't a problem. And this makes it stick to the runway on landings, no bouncing on this plane.
Last time out, I didn't have enough elevator throw in my thrust vector, I maxed it out. Wow! Very cool tumbles. Did three tight tumbles in a row. Flat spins are better now with more rudder throw.
The way I have this plane set up, I think its on the heavy side. K180, thrust vector, and 50 extra ounces of fuel. Fully loaded, you can tell the flight characteristics are different in the first half of the flight as opposed to the last. I bought this to do 3D, and it is exactly what I wanted. If you don't want to do tumbles and spins, I would put a smaller turbine in it and no second tank.
The K180 is thirsty. 150 ounces of fuel give 7 minutes safely. On my first flight, I was talking to two of my buddies and I was in a hurry, left the damn vert fin at home had to drive back and get it… anyway, main tank got full, I didn't allow it to get to the second tank..duh.
Last time out, I didn't have enough elevator throw in my thrust vector, I maxed it out. Wow! Very cool tumbles. Did three tight tumbles in a row. Flat spins are better now with more rudder throw.
The way I have this plane set up, I think its on the heavy side. K180, thrust vector, and 50 extra ounces of fuel. Fully loaded, you can tell the flight characteristics are different in the first half of the flight as opposed to the last. I bought this to do 3D, and it is exactly what I wanted. If you don't want to do tumbles and spins, I would put a smaller turbine in it and no second tank.
The K180 is thirsty. 150 ounces of fuel give 7 minutes safely. On my first flight, I was talking to two of my buddies and I was in a hurry, left the damn vert fin at home had to drive back and get it… anyway, main tank got full, I didn't allow it to get to the second tank..duh.
04-27-2014, 08:47 AM
#214
Thanks for the update. Good to hear the results and that your deadstick didn't result in any damages.
You didn't do anything with your gear as I recall, or did you put the fuel tubing in the strut? I know that the last time I talked to Jason, Seba wasn't going to do anything with the gear so any changes/updates would have to be on his dime for stuff he sold and he was waiting to see how yours performed.
I'm glad I got the second tank for mine since the Behotec 180 will burn pretty much the same amount as the Kingtech 180. I keep waiting for more development on the fuel level/burn sensor stuff for the telemetry, it would be really nice to have were one to decide that an all out 3D flight isn't what's coming up next and just fuel the main tank. I'm not using the Sbus on mine but it's got the PE and those little three channel rx's. IF they come out with something for fuel, I've got several R7008SB's looking for homes.... lol
You didn't do anything with your gear as I recall, or did you put the fuel tubing in the strut? I know that the last time I talked to Jason, Seba wasn't going to do anything with the gear so any changes/updates would have to be on his dime for stuff he sold and he was waiting to see how yours performed.
I'm glad I got the second tank for mine since the Behotec 180 will burn pretty much the same amount as the Kingtech 180. I keep waiting for more development on the fuel level/burn sensor stuff for the telemetry, it would be really nice to have were one to decide that an all out 3D flight isn't what's coming up next and just fuel the main tank. I'm not using the Sbus on mine but it's got the PE and those little three channel rx's. IF they come out with something for fuel, I've got several R7008SB's looking for homes.... lol
04-28-2014, 09:01 AM
#215
Gary, I did put a small piece of tygon in the main gear. I honestly don't think its necessary if your gear blocks are glued in well. Again, my plane is about as heavy as anyone will build it.
04-28-2014, 09:42 AM
#216
Okay thanks Mike.
@causeiflies; I can't remember exactly where I saw the number from Seba/SebArt, but this model is one of a growing number of birds designed for precision aerobatics and some 3D if appropriately equipped. Since those guys don't want the thing accelerating too much on the downlines, they are designed and not intended to go past 160 MPH. Also, since this model is equipped with built up wings that would suggest that really high speeds may not be acceptable. There are full composite wings in the works from Krill but those will not be availble for some time.
So if you'd like to do some precision aerobatics aka F3A with a jet, or you'd like to do some turbine 3D stuff, this would make a great model for you. If you want to go fast like a Flash or a Bandit say, then this isn't the model for you. It has the 180 option specifically so it can hover, not go fast.
@causeiflies; I can't remember exactly where I saw the number from Seba/SebArt, but this model is one of a growing number of birds designed for precision aerobatics and some 3D if appropriately equipped. Since those guys don't want the thing accelerating too much on the downlines, they are designed and not intended to go past 160 MPH. Also, since this model is equipped with built up wings that would suggest that really high speeds may not be acceptable. There are full composite wings in the works from Krill but those will not be availble for some time.
So if you'd like to do some precision aerobatics aka F3A with a jet, or you'd like to do some turbine 3D stuff, this would make a great model for you. If you want to go fast like a Flash or a Bandit say, then this isn't the model for you. It has the 180 option specifically so it can hover, not go fast.
04-28-2014, 09:43 AM
#217
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I maidened my jet this weekend. Maybe the most uneventful maiden ever. this jet is all that it is cracked up to be. 4 landings as soft as a butterfly with sore feet.
I am using a p160 with kero start. I have the stock tank with two additional 16 oz tanks. After a 7 min flight i still had over 50 oz left in the main.
The only issue I had was the right main gear would stay compressed on takeoff and would not retract fully into the wing and the wind would pull it down. I rolled over on its back and this helped. I did add the fuel tubing but still did it. Once I get that ironed out this will be my new number one jet.
Scott
I am using a p160 with kero start. I have the stock tank with two additional 16 oz tanks. After a 7 min flight i still had over 50 oz left in the main.
The only issue I had was the right main gear would stay compressed on takeoff and would not retract fully into the wing and the wind would pull it down. I rolled over on its back and this helped. I did add the fuel tubing but still did it. Once I get that ironed out this will be my new number one jet.
Scott
04-28-2014, 11:32 AM
#218
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I maidened mine at MS Afterburner last week. I used the lower throws (and expo) recommended in the manual for my low rates, and just added about 10-15% for the high rates (I figured there is no need for 3D rates yet), and the recommended down elevator with full flaps. The CG was set at 250.
With the P-120 the takeoff roll was about 150-200' followed by a very positive feel on climbout. Trim needed was minimal; it was rolling right a very tiny bit and needed a little bit of forward pressure on the stick at higher speeds. It was so little on both issues that I didn't bother changing the trims during the flight. With full flaps it needed a little bit more down elevator, and the right roll was slightly worse. The approach was solid with about 15% power til over the landing area, then all the way back to idle and flare. I did get a little overzealous on the flare and ended up scraping the tail (bottom of fuse) on the runway, but the landing was quite smooth.
After the flight I adjusted the aileron linkages about 1/2 turn to get rid of the slight right roll, and I adjusted the left flap linkage out 1/2 turn to get rid of the right roll with flap. I also increased the down elevator with full flap from 15% to 17%.
The second and third flights the trim was nearly perfect (still a tiny bit of down elevator needed at higher speeds). I did notice that the elevator rate needed to be dialed back a little though since it pulled through a split-S with a nearly square corner with very little stick input. Snap rolls right and left are very tight, and they stop when you center the sticks with the airplane heading the same direction it was, and at the same altitude. If you hold the snap roll inputs for a second or third rotation it will still stop when you release the input, but the speed will bleed off so much that it will be heading down when the rotation stops. I did not get a chance to do any spins, but I think it will do some very nice flat spins.
The fourth flight I decided to test the smoke system (Sullivan smoke pump, and home made injector tube at the rear of the pipe. The additional weight of the smoke fluid didn't seem to affect the take off roll, or flying characteristics at all, and the smoke system worked very well. I had also lowered the elevator throws about 10% and it felt a little better pulling through a slit-S. The fourth landing was a little hard. I was low on fuel (busy flightline) and another plane had landed long, so I was keeping it slow and trying to land as short as possible. I got it a little too slow and dropped it on the mains from about 2 feet. Nothing broken, but the spring in the left main strut was compressed and not extending all the way.
Saturday morning I worked on the gear a bit, and added another small spring to the strut to get it to extend properly. I also found that every bolt holding the main retracts together was loose. After putting loctite on all the screws and tightening I found that the left gear was getting stuck in the up position. It took some time but I narrowed down the problem to the side frames of the retract being not properly aligned. It took some fiddling, but I got them aligned and tightened and both main gear were working properly again.
On the fifth flight it took off the same as before, but on the first upwind pass I noticed that the right main had not retracted (the left was the one that was giving me issues before). I put the gear switch in the down position and all the gear came down, so I decided to just leave it down for the flight and figure it out later. It flew almost exactly the same with the legs out as it did with them tucked away. I made the approach and landing with only half flap, and carried a little bit more speed this time. Touch down was smooth and solid and I held a little elevator for a runway wheelie, lifted off again, second touch down was also solid so I hit the brakes to make the turn off and clear the runway.
The fifth flight attempt was completely different. I lined it up on the centerline and gave it full throttle. It accelerated and I added a little up elevator as I had done before at about the same distance down the runway. It did not lift off! I added more elevator, and it still did not lift off. I increased to full up elevator at about the time the plane was starting to look small (probably about 800' from the starting point) and it still was not lifting off, so I pulled it back to idle and got it stopped, and I was able to taxi it back.
We found that the engine was only coming up to 115,000-116,000 RPM's instead of 123,000.
Not sure what is causing it, but I didn't feel like working on it at the field, so I just flew my other plane the rest of the day. Hopefully it will just be a dirty fuel filter, or a weak fuel pump and I will be able to fly it again soon.
I really like this airplane!
With the P-120 the takeoff roll was about 150-200' followed by a very positive feel on climbout. Trim needed was minimal; it was rolling right a very tiny bit and needed a little bit of forward pressure on the stick at higher speeds. It was so little on both issues that I didn't bother changing the trims during the flight. With full flaps it needed a little bit more down elevator, and the right roll was slightly worse. The approach was solid with about 15% power til over the landing area, then all the way back to idle and flare. I did get a little overzealous on the flare and ended up scraping the tail (bottom of fuse) on the runway, but the landing was quite smooth.
After the flight I adjusted the aileron linkages about 1/2 turn to get rid of the slight right roll, and I adjusted the left flap linkage out 1/2 turn to get rid of the right roll with flap. I also increased the down elevator with full flap from 15% to 17%.
The second and third flights the trim was nearly perfect (still a tiny bit of down elevator needed at higher speeds). I did notice that the elevator rate needed to be dialed back a little though since it pulled through a split-S with a nearly square corner with very little stick input. Snap rolls right and left are very tight, and they stop when you center the sticks with the airplane heading the same direction it was, and at the same altitude. If you hold the snap roll inputs for a second or third rotation it will still stop when you release the input, but the speed will bleed off so much that it will be heading down when the rotation stops. I did not get a chance to do any spins, but I think it will do some very nice flat spins.
The fourth flight I decided to test the smoke system (Sullivan smoke pump, and home made injector tube at the rear of the pipe. The additional weight of the smoke fluid didn't seem to affect the take off roll, or flying characteristics at all, and the smoke system worked very well. I had also lowered the elevator throws about 10% and it felt a little better pulling through a slit-S. The fourth landing was a little hard. I was low on fuel (busy flightline) and another plane had landed long, so I was keeping it slow and trying to land as short as possible. I got it a little too slow and dropped it on the mains from about 2 feet. Nothing broken, but the spring in the left main strut was compressed and not extending all the way.
Saturday morning I worked on the gear a bit, and added another small spring to the strut to get it to extend properly. I also found that every bolt holding the main retracts together was loose. After putting loctite on all the screws and tightening I found that the left gear was getting stuck in the up position. It took some time but I narrowed down the problem to the side frames of the retract being not properly aligned. It took some fiddling, but I got them aligned and tightened and both main gear were working properly again.
On the fifth flight it took off the same as before, but on the first upwind pass I noticed that the right main had not retracted (the left was the one that was giving me issues before). I put the gear switch in the down position and all the gear came down, so I decided to just leave it down for the flight and figure it out later. It flew almost exactly the same with the legs out as it did with them tucked away. I made the approach and landing with only half flap, and carried a little bit more speed this time. Touch down was smooth and solid and I held a little elevator for a runway wheelie, lifted off again, second touch down was also solid so I hit the brakes to make the turn off and clear the runway.
The fifth flight attempt was completely different. I lined it up on the centerline and gave it full throttle. It accelerated and I added a little up elevator as I had done before at about the same distance down the runway. It did not lift off! I added more elevator, and it still did not lift off. I increased to full up elevator at about the time the plane was starting to look small (probably about 800' from the starting point) and it still was not lifting off, so I pulled it back to idle and got it stopped, and I was able to taxi it back.
We found that the engine was only coming up to 115,000-116,000 RPM's instead of 123,000.
Not sure what is causing it, but I didn't feel like working on it at the field, so I just flew my other plane the rest of the day. Hopefully it will just be a dirty fuel filter, or a weak fuel pump and I will be able to fly it again soon.
I really like this airplane!
05-15-2014, 07:26 AM
#219
Hello Everyone, I've just acquired an Avanti - S and I was wondering if anyone has converted the control throws from Deg to mm deflection like most of the Chinese jets. I find degrees are a little harder to accuratle measure since you should be on the hinge point and centerline of the control surface to measure the angle accurately. Also, I'm blowing a lot of air past the right break seal when the brake is applied. I've lubed the seal but it's still leaking quire a bit. Anyone have a solution for this one?
05-15-2014, 09:02 PM
#221
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Page 7 here ya go
Hello everyone,
Seba has been a bit under the weather and apologizes for the delayed response, but here are the maximum throws in millimeters:
MAXIMUM TRAVEL:
AILERONS
UP = 40mm / DOWN = 30mm
ELEVATOR
UP = 36m / DOWN = 36mm
RUDDER
RIGHT = 55mm / LEFT 55mm
FLAPS
START = 38mm / LANDING = 100mm (IN “AIRBRAKE” MODE
Seba also confirmed that the landing gear mount design was updated for improved strength/durability in all models produced starting in the latter part of last year.
Jason M.
SebArt RC USA
www.SebArtRC.com
Hello everyone,
Seba has been a bit under the weather and apologizes for the delayed response, but here are the maximum throws in millimeters:
MAXIMUM TRAVEL:
AILERONS
UP = 40mm / DOWN = 30mm
ELEVATOR
UP = 36m / DOWN = 36mm
RUDDER
RIGHT = 55mm / LEFT 55mm
FLAPS
START = 38mm / LANDING = 100mm (IN “AIRBRAKE” MODE
Seba also confirmed that the landing gear mount design was updated for improved strength/durability in all models produced starting in the latter part of last year.
Jason M.
SebArt RC USA
www.SebArtRC.com
05-16-2014, 08:34 AM
#222
Next a question for Jason.....
Saw a pic of the "Krill Sport Jet" designed by Seba in a thread here from a guy in the UK. Completely different paint scheme on the red/white/blue model shown and he thought a 2.1 meter wingspan.
Sorry I thought it was here on RCU but it's over on that "banned" site, FG. I'll see if I can figure out a way to get you there, it's in the Airframes and Kits forum. If it shows up with the stars, just replace the stars with the appropriate words....
http://www.************.com/forums/s...38&postcount=1
We talked about getting a set of the composite wings as they are supposed to fit the existing fuselage. IIRC you indicated a 2.2 wingspan and a chunk of change, but if the color schemes are different for the Krill manufacture composite wings, I'm not interested. I'm no painter let alone like our intrepid thread participant (I think it was Kevin_W?) who glassed his wings/horizontal stab and repainted them to a perfect match.
Saw a pic of the "Krill Sport Jet" designed by Seba in a thread here from a guy in the UK. Completely different paint scheme on the red/white/blue model shown and he thought a 2.1 meter wingspan.
Sorry I thought it was here on RCU but it's over on that "banned" site, FG. I'll see if I can figure out a way to get you there, it's in the Airframes and Kits forum. If it shows up with the stars, just replace the stars with the appropriate words....
http://www.************.com/forums/s...38&postcount=1
We talked about getting a set of the composite wings as they are supposed to fit the existing fuselage. IIRC you indicated a 2.2 wingspan and a chunk of change, but if the color schemes are different for the Krill manufacture composite wings, I'm not interested. I'm no painter let alone like our intrepid thread participant (I think it was Kevin_W?) who glassed his wings/horizontal stab and repainted them to a perfect match.
Last edited by Zeeb; 05-16-2014 at 09:38 AM.
05-17-2014, 04:25 AM
#225
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Hello Zeeb,
Seba is here at Joe Nall with us and confirmed that he still plans to offer sets of composite wings and stabs that match the trim/color schemes of the current Avanti S 2.0m.
BTW, his demos have been a big hit out here...hopefully there will be some videos posted soon!
Jason M.
SebArt RC USA
www.SebArtRC.com
Seba is here at Joe Nall with us and confirmed that he still plans to offer sets of composite wings and stabs that match the trim/color schemes of the current Avanti S 2.0m.
BTW, his demos have been a big hit out here...hopefully there will be some videos posted soon!
Jason M.
SebArt RC USA
www.SebArtRC.com