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X-treme/Skymaster A-10 1/7.5 Build

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Old 11-08-2017, 11:18 AM
  #1  
ravill
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Thumbs up X-treme/Skymaster A-10 1/7.5 Build

Time for another RCU build (or ARF assembly!).

I've wanted a warthog (who hasn't?!) for years and after almost getting a Mibo (sorry Oli!), I decided I wanted to get one that is easier to finish and to, most importantly, transport.

This one seems to fit the requirements.

From reading from the RCgroup thread (mostly edf's) there are a couple of quirks.

1. The exhaust of the engines NEEDS to have an upward direction as the top nacelle location pushes the nose down. Jack Diaz Sr. gave me some sage advice (as is usual), to mix some up elevator with throttle. Edit: Down elevator with lower 1/2 of throttle.

2. Don't skimp on powerful aileron servos.

3. The main gear mounting may be a little lacking so some reinforcements maybe necessary.

4. Main wheels are a bit small and the gear is not really scale. I'll paint them white and likely get big interco's from Dreamworks.

5. Don't go with the big boy engines as it will need a lot of nose weight to balance.

6. ...... For those folks flying this guy, I'll take all the advice you can give me!

I haven't had a chance to unpack it all yet so more pics are coming. Here are some previews.


Peek-a-boo!!

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The cockpit is a work of art.

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The fans are very cool. I'm going to paint some sort of swirly black so I can see them moving, kind of like what full scale turbo fans have.

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Last edited by ravill; 11-27-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:26 PM
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I love mine, feel free to pm for any hints or tips and I'll see what I can suggest.
You sound like you're on the right track having read the rcgroups thread.
If I was doing mine again tomorrow.
1) I wouldnt use VT80s due to the nose weight required. Maybe kingtech 70?? Even though the fuel burn of both are identical.
2) regarding the thrust line, I used the exhaust nozzles and rotated them outward (I think 30 degrees, so from the rear they are in the 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock position.
3) I'm retrofitting electron 40 retracts as the supplied retract frames will bend.
4) the nose gear pin is now 8mm not 6mm but will still bend.
5) I would fit an additional fuel tank underneath the other two. I get 6 mins flight time and have 1/3 of tanks left. I'd like a little more....
6) the stock mains legs require stiffer springs.
7) I'd try to keep it lighter.
8) personal preference on throttle elevator mix, but I don't have it, I use the power box gyro and that won't fully compensate. I don't find the pitch power a massive problem, if I'm doing a low pass (6ft) I'll simply raise the nose before I put the power on.

Finally, good colour scheme!
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:27 PM
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Mine!
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:37 PM
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I have had one for almost 2 years and I think I'll finally be able to get started on it. I hope you're happier with yours than I am with mine. It looks like they actually got the colors right on yours, I have to repaint mine. Among the issues are, the gray is way to light, the dark green is way too dark and the olive green has a lot of brown in it (pic was taken on a cloudy day so the colors look closer than they are). In addition the tail markings are wrong and poorly painted, the tactical air command, 23rd fighter wing and 74th fighter squadron shields are missing, there is a hole in the top of one wing (wrapping was intact, someone knew the hole was there when it was packed), and the plane was not clear coated so during shipping the paint rubbed off all the raised rivets on the bottom and the white gel coat shows through. The kicker is apparently the air force has a new rank, according to the nose of my plane the DCC is not an SSGT, but an 88GT (zoom in, I'm not kidding). Also I hope they have started marking the centers of the dowels placed between the wing skins for the pylons to attach to, mine aren't marked at all.

One the good side, even though the plane tends to come out heavier than spec, they apparently handle the weight well (one EDF in Germany flying at 20kg). I've been told by several people that the A-10s don't feel quite the same as other planes until they're up in step, all the different angles and incidences don't work themselves out till there's some speed on the airframe.

There's also a good thread in the general discussion section of Flying Giants, it's for the EDF version, but other than power plant related stuff everything else still holds true
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:19 PM
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Hi Ravill, I will be watching this as I also want a big A10 but handling and transportation has held me back. I have thought about this one and the new little King Tech or if Merlin if it comes out seem to be best choices for power as it would keep the weight down.

Good of luck with the build.
Behzad
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bidrseed2 View Post
I love mine, feel free to pm for any hints or tips and I'll see what I can suggest.
You sound like you're on the right track having read the rcgroups thread.
If I was doing mine again tomorrow.
1) I wouldnt use VT80s due to the nose weight required. Maybe kingtech 70?? Even though the fuel burn of both are identical.
2) regarding the thrust line, I used the exhaust nozzles and rotated them outward (I think 30 degrees, so from the rear they are in the 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock position.
3) I'm retrofitting electron 40 retracts as the supplied retract frames will bend.
4) the nose gear pin is now 8mm not 6mm but will still bend.
5) I would fit an additional fuel tank underneath the other two. I get 6 mins flight time and have 1/3 of tanks left. I'd like a little more....
6) the stock mains legs require stiffer springs.
7) I'd try to keep it lighter.
8) personal preference on throttle elevator mix, but I don't have it, I use the power box gyro and that won't fully compensate. I don't find the pitch power a massive problem, if I'm doing a low pass (6ft) I'll simply raise the nose before I put the power on.

Finally, good colour scheme!
Thanks birdseed! Fantastic Pic!

A couple of questions back please:

1. How long is your take off roll? Are you flying off grass?

I'm most likely going to go with Kingtech's new k85g.





Originally Posted by rcmigpilot View Post
I have had one for almost 2 years and I think I'll finally be able to get started on it. I hope you're happier with yours than I am with mine. It looks like they actually got the colors right on yours, I have to repaint mine. Among the issues are, the gray is way to light, the dark green is way too dark and the olive green has a lot of brown in it (pic was taken on a cloudy day so the colors look closer than they are). In addition the tail markings are wrong and poorly painted, the tactical air command, 23rd fighter wing and 74th fighter squadron shields are missing, there is a hole in the top of one wing (wrapping was intact, someone knew the hole was there when it was packed), and the plane was not clear coated so during shipping the paint rubbed off all the raised rivets on the bottom and the white gel coat shows through. The kicker is apparently the air force has a new rank, according to the nose of my plane the DCC is not an SSGT, but an 88GT (zoom in, I'm not kidding). Also I hope they have started marking the centers of the dowels placed between the wing skins for the pylons to attach to, mine aren't marked at all.

One the good side, even though the plane tends to come out heavier than spec, they apparently handle the weight well (one EDF in Germany flying at 20kg). I've been told by several people that the A-10s don't feel quite the same as other planes until they're up in step, all the different angles and incidences don't work themselves out till there's some speed on the airframe.

There's also a good thread in the general discussion section of Flying Giants, it's for the EDF version, but other than power plant related stuff everything else still holds true
Sounds like you got alot of paint errors! I'm just happy there is no backwards writing as I've had that before form the chinese manufactures! LOL

I can see the outlines for the dowels in my wing. I'll post some pics.

Thank you for the flying giants reference, I'll look them up!

Originally Posted by DUCMOZ View Post
Hi Ravill, I will be watching this as I also want a big A10 but handling and transportation has held me back. I have thought about this one and the new little King Tech or if Merlin if it comes out seem to be best choices for power as it would keep the weight down.

Good of luck with the build.
Behzad
What I liked about this A-10, is that its not small at all at an 89 inch wingspan! And having smaller engines means less fuel, less batteries, easier to assemble, to handle by myself, etc.... Like I posted above, I think those new Kingtech k85G's are pretty slick!

Please feel free to chime in with any inputs/questions! And that goes for everyone!

This is my first turbine twin and I'm kinda excited about it.

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Old 11-09-2017, 11:15 AM
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Take off roll is 70 yds off tarmac. It needs full up elevator to rotate, probably cause of the pitch power couple forcing the nose down.
Strangely, if you're an idiot and take off with one engine at idle, you only Rotate 10 yds later......

long story how i know that!

i don't know anything about the K85G but I'm told 60 size engines aren't enough as it's very draggy, especially with pylons on. 80 seems perfect but I've got 1.5kg of nose weight in it, so if the K85G are heavier than merlin VT80 then you could be stitching yourself up.

Last edited by bidrseed2; 11-09-2017 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Amendment to takeoff roll
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bidrseed2 View Post
Take off roll is 70 yds off tarmac. It needs full up elevator to rotate, probably cause of the pitch power couple forcing the nose down.
Strangely, if you're an idiot and take off with one engine at idle, you only Rotate 10 yds later......

long story how i know that!

i don't know anything about the K85G but I'm told 60 size engines aren't enough as it's very draggy, especially with pylons on. 80 seems perfect but I've got 1.5kg of nose weight in it, so if the K85G are heavier than merlin VT80 then you could be stitching yourself up.

Ack! How did it fly with one engine?

The VT80 weights 950 gms and the K85G2 weighs 880!

70gm difference times 2 is 140 gms! Not quite 1.5 kg, but every bit helps!
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:46 AM
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Well, on the day in question I'd also played around with the gyro so the rudder was also in "heading hold" on the igyro.
i didnt actually recognise that one engine was at idle, the igyro masked most of it.
it had plenty power.
it wasn't sharp in roll.
i needed more rudder in turns, but I think that was mainly due to the gyro.

i think the biggest issue that day was the gyro being in hold mode more than an engine being at idle.

im not scared of an engine flaming out after that!

140gm saving is great, and as the nose is twice as far from the cig as the engines are from the CG, you should need 280gm less weight in the nose.

id do the sums on the K70 as well, but I'm sure you've probably done that....

(Just checked K70 is 760gm, so if I'd used them, I'd have needed .8kg less nose weight than I currently have and would have an airframe 1.2 kg lighter but with 2kg less thrust.)

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Old 11-09-2017, 04:37 PM
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Sounds like you got alot of paint errors! I'm just happy there is no backwards writing as I've had that before form the chinese manufactures! LOL

I can see the outlines for the dowels in my wing. I'll post some pics.

Thank you for the flying giants reference, I'll look them up!
Yea I was kinda bummed about the whole ordeal. I've wanted and A-10 since I got into RC in the early '90s, but getting one IC ducted fan to stay running was hard enough, wasn't up for the challenge of 2, then when turbines came on the scene the big ones were (and still are) a bit out of my hobby budget so the smaller Skymaster fit the bill for me. And I agree it's smaller, but by no means small.

I'm picky about the way mine will look as I've got a connection to the paint scheme that our planes are based on. I live in southern Louisiana and our planes are patterned off the 23rd TFW aircraft that were based at England AFB in Alexandria, LA in the late '80s. In '88 they showed up at a local airshow with, I kid you not, an entire squadron (gotta love the '80s defence budgets) and put 5 planes in the air at the same time for the demo. If you think one is cool to watch, you should see 5. I spent a lot of time that day walking around the ones on static display and have been an A-10 fan ever since.

I was going to use a pair of Jet Central Rabbits that I picked up really cheap then I saw some videos of them flying on EDF and I was hooked. Turbines fit the sound of an F-15 or 16, but the EDFs are perfect for the A-10. I've got a pair of Jetfan 120s that on 12s should give me about 16lbs of thrust each. Ron Schwarzkopf designed and 3D printed a really trick set of inlets to adapt the fans to the nacelles that should look killer. Tailormade is reducing down one of their Mibo decal sets for me so no more 88GT and the tails will be right.

Looking forward to following your progress, unfortunately I won't be starting on mine for a bit, I lost my 2M Viperjet to a flameout and need to get it's replacement (102" Viperjet) ready first so I have an everyday flier again.

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Old 11-09-2017, 05:47 PM
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We used to go to England AFB on occasion when I was in AFROTC at the University of Southwestern Louisiana back in the late 80's. Sad that they closed it, the A-10's were awesome.
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SECRET AGENT View Post
We used to go to England AFB on occasion when I was in AFROTC at the University of Southwestern Louisiana back in the late 80's. Sad that they closed it, the A-10's were awesome.
Ahhh, USL back before the name change.... they imploded my dorm and changed the name of the school since I was there in the mid 80's. All the A-10s were at the Lafayette Optimists air show, they had a bunch of cool planes that year, KC-10, F-18, Harrier, F-15. I've got some good A-10 pictures in a box somewhere, but can't figure out where they are.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:04 PM
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Yup, my dad blames me for the AFROTC closing down while I was in it, HA! I'm probably responsible for USL's name change as well, they probably didn't want to be associated with me being a graduate!!

Now my son is a Sophmore there! Time flies, right!
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:35 AM
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rcmigpilot,

Here in these pics, you can see where the dowels are. I can even see some through the servo hatches. I can get you some measurements if you need some.

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Old 11-13-2017, 07:39 AM
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More pics:


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Old 11-13-2017, 04:36 PM
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Looks like they stepped up their painting game on yours. Appreciate the offer to measure, but the dowel issue is more of an annoyance than anything else. On mine all the circles are filled in or sanded off, I can just make out where most them are if I shine a flashlight at very low angle across the wing skin. Luckily the ones that are hardest to see are near enough to an opening that I can find them. How hard would it have been for them to put a dimple in the middle of each one? You'd think for what this plane costs there'd be a little more attention to detail. Anyway, since I'm trying to keep mine on a diet I don't plan on hanging anything from the pylons, but I've got to have the pylons, hogs just don't look right with bare wings.

Hopefully after 2 years of life and other projects getting in the way I'll be able to build mine this winter. One nice thing about waiting, the price of good LiPo batteries have come down.

Also, saw your post in the other thread about maybe changing tire size. I'll save you some math, full scale mains are 36" which would be 4.6" in our scale, so 4.5" are close enough and relatively easy to get.

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Old 11-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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In all fairness if you wanted something with more detail the Larger A-10 would be more suited. If you wanted something to a more world class level than you would go the Maibo A-10 and add those perfect detail touches. I think the price for the Xtreme Jets is reasonable and although the detail is by no way world class completion level they are still reasonable. With a few scratch built parts, a lighting system, weathering and painting of gear you can make the planes look very exeptional for the price. Just my 2c worth. Happy flying
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Justflying1 View Post
In all fairness if you wanted something with more detail the Larger A-10 would be more suited. If you wanted something to a more world class level than you would go the Maibo A-10 and add those perfect detail touches. I think the price for the Xtreme Jets is reasonable and although the detail is by no way world class completion level they are still reasonable. With a few scratch built parts, a lighting system, weathering and painting of gear you can make the planes look very exeptional for the price. Just my 2c worth. Happy flying
I think you're confusing amount of detail and attention to detail, ie paying attention to the small stuff and getting it right the first time. I really don't think it is expecting too much for a $3,000 airplane to not be missing 80% of the hardware. For the scheme that is provided to match the one of their web page and not be missing several large elements. For the touch up paint that I paint extra for to actually be the same colors that plane was painted with (not off a shade, not even the same color) . For there not to be a hole in one of the wings (under three layers of intact bubble wrap so it's obvious it didn't happen in shipping. The list goes on, but I won't bore everyone with the details. I was not then and nor am I now expecting a scale masters level product, but I expected much better than what I got. My Skymaster 2M Viperjet was excellent, not really sure why the same quality standards were not in place on my A-10.

Now, my past bad experience aside, it's time to get back to the point of this post. I'm glad to see a few more of these getting built as I've never seen one fly in person. I'm hoping the advent of the more powerful and lighter small engines will spur on more interest. I think its a great size plane, big enough to be impressive, but small enough to be somewhat easy to transport. I'm going EDF with mine more for the sound and novelty than anything else, the fact that 2 fans, ESCs and enough batteries for two consecutive flights is less than the cost of one turbine is just icing on the cake.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:15 PM
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Hi All, have you considered getting the BVM success pack to help and improve the build?

Behzad
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:51 PM
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I too am actually amazed how fantastic my a-10 looks. There is WAY more scale stuff than I would ever have put on there if it was up to me.

That said, I’ve got a few scale goodies that I’m going to add. ��

Behzad, I did look at that success pack, but I don’t feel like I need it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:56 PM
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A little more work done.

I had some spare ultra bandit gear laying around, so I decided to use them. While I was there, I decided to add some carbon fiber reinforcement. I will be doing the same beefing up to the main gear.


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Using my trusty lathe, the correct sized adapters were made.

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I also thought that the tanks were a bit small, so I made some molds out of foam and I'm asking Gary at Jet Tech to make me some extra fuel tanks.

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Old 11-17-2017, 12:03 PM
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Hi from Mexico, I found this thread searching for a A10 Build thread, I receive mine two weeks ago, Its fantastic, I love it, I choosed for my A10 the Peanut Camo Sheme, I plan to build it with a pair of Jet Central Bee turbines, I had one and found another cheap, I know weight and balance is going to be a problem with this turbines but thats what I have, theres's a few helpfull threads to start the build, and I hope that in this thread find some tips too.

I have one question, how do you secure the Canopy in this plane?, I see that it have a guide/tube on the interior.

I'm going to start the build as soon as I have all the parts necesary to start.

I'm going to suscribe to this thread to see the progress.


Thanks
Sergio
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:17 PM
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Securing canopy is very easy. Just remove the rear hatch where the tanks go in and you will see a pin which slides in and out to lock the canopy in place. Once you see it you will understand what I mean.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:23 PM
  #24  
Justflying1
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I installed two 24 oz tanks just forward of the two main tanks. This gives me an extra .7 Litre (700ml) per engine. Starting on taxi tank I should get 6 min with two P-60SE.
Thats the problem of having things collecting dust for so long. A pair of Merlin’s or K-70 would have been so much better on this model. Only if they where a available at the time.☹️
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:17 PM
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sergio turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by Justflying1 View Post
Securing canopy is very easy. Just remove the rear hatch where the tanks go in and you will see a pin which slides in and out to lock the canopy in place. Once you see it you will understand what I mean.
Thanks, I found the pin attached to the wing tube, now I understand how it works.

Sergio

Last edited by sergio turbo; 11-18-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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