SAP_2000

I have now ordered a JetCat 160 for my Skymaster F-18 and have a few questions about the 160.

The EGT and max RPM is quite high on 160 compared to other turbines. Up to 770 deg.C @128K RPM and all the way up to 900 deg.C during acceleration. How does this affect the combustion chamber and bearing life??

I do a lot of flying. Last year, I had about 250 flights on one of my SimJet 3000 engines whithout a single problem. I want to hear from you who have a lot of flights on your 160. Does the combustion chamber and bearings last on this engine? Any other issues?

Can the bi-pipe for the SM F-18 take the thrust and temp from the JetCat 160? anyone tried this combination before?

Andy_S_T

My main experience with a friends 160 isn't good! First time it was run at full power it shed a blade from the compressor (Yellow F18's first flight)! This was then Rebuilt by JetCAT UK. The second run on full power (Yellow F18's second flight) whole internals shredded themselves due to compressor or bearing failure (they weren't sure which), with 5 foot flames out the rear! Engine sent back to JetCAT. Now friend has to wait till the end of August at the earliest for a replacement as the 160 is being redesigned (aparently by AMT!).

I also know of 2 more 160's that have had 'problems'.

SAP_2000

Interesting...

When did your friend purchase his 160?
What was the story whith the two other engines?

Any JetCat reps care to comment on this? If the 160 is being re-designed and released by end of August, I'll hold my order a while....

Andy_S_T

The 160 was purchased around 3 months ago. It lived in an Avonds F15 for a while with the rpm dialled down, and was fine. It was only when the motor was asked to perform to it's max thrust that things started to go wrong.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I would hold for awhile.

I will add a bit more to this response in a few hours, just need to make sure all of the info I have is correct before I post it. Sorry for the delay.

SAP_2000

Thank you so much for shearing that info Andy_S_T!!

I hope to get more feedback soon, so I am able to hold the order before the engine leaves Germany....

MR_Matt: Please hurry up...[:-] I need to know what to do...

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Staale,

Unfortunately, I really only know about what is going on a JetCat USA. It is hard for me to tell you something that specific about your motor.

There are definitley new designs on the way, and you may have been allocated one of the new motors. You should ask them if they plan to send you one of the newer designs. I am sure they will know what you are talking about.

SJN

One of my flying buddies bought one too, and on its second flight the turbine wheel siezed, and would not move. Even when it had cooled down. He sent it back, and they sent him a p-80 back by mistake

The new one also has high temps, but it sure has power

K Jorgensen

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Staale

If you were So happy with your SimJet 3000. Why don´t you wait for the new Nexus then.

But then again. I think that a 3000 in the SkyMaster F18 has all the trust that you will need.

SAP_2000

I'll have a talk with the Swedish dealer I have ordered the motor from. I specifically asked him if there were any issues with the 160, and he said no...???

It would be nice to get some more info on what goes wrong with the current engines, and what is different on the new designs?

SAP_2000

I am still very happy with my SimJet 3000's.

The reason I did no wait for the Nexus is that I could not get any info on when it was going to be released. I am not too keen on the kero start either.....

The 3000 is IMO just enough to give the SM F-15 the power it deserves for verticals etc., so I think the F-18 needs a bit more....

SAP_2000

What do you mean by ''the new one''?? New components or a new designed engine?

unknown

Sap_2000
Wouldn 't it be better to get the AMT equivalent instead of the P-160?? . JETCAT seems to be having some problem s with the P-160.

SAP_2000

Unknown:

Maybe.... I always thoght JetCat was top quality since they are so expensive. The last thing I want, is to risk a 10K$ bird because of a bad engine....

But first I want to know a lot more of what goes on with the 160....

Someone please tell me exactly what is the problem with the JetCat 160...??

Andy_S_T

I think that there is no denying that the JetCAT's are good quality, but they are having problems with the 160. After all from the 80 up they are just tweaked KJ66 clones.

What I have been told is that the problem is mainly due to the compressor and how it has to be balanced (no sacrificial ring), so their strength is reduced (this is what I have been told by the people that have been having problems, so don't shoot me). I believe that there may also be some other problems as well but I haven't been told about them.

If you want absolute quality then go for an AMT, but be prepared to pay the price!

SJN

I just meant the new one they sent back... I dont think there is any new designed stuff in it.

RAMASPOT

HI GUYS , I HAVE TWO 160 THEY BOTH RUN AWESOME I HAVE ON ON A EURO FIGHTER AND ONE ON A KING CAT, NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS THEY ALWAY START AND RUN FLAWLESS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY BUT MINE ARE GREAT.

MANNY SANCHEZ

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

basically the problems boil down to having so much power out of the same size can as a p80. From what i have heard, Jetcat has re-enginered the p160s and i believe that also included an increase in case size ... i think the p200s are also still being worked out .... When the new P160s start shipping, and are verified to run properly, ill be puting myself on the list for one or two ... Service has always been top nothch here in the US, Bob does a fabulous job supporting the turbines, thats why i have stuck with Jetcat for so long ... I did however purchase a at400 for my KingCat when for a long time the larger engines were not available or were having problems from JetCat, as I could not wait any longer ...


Wojtek

JetMax

My Feedback: (4)

I agree! The fact is that price certainly does not guarantee quality but on the other hand that doesn't keep me from spending more money if need be to secure the best equipment available for my jets. There is so much riding on reliable gear that it just doesn't make sense to me to go any other route. It didn't bother me one bit to pay the difference in the Euro to order an engine from the Netherlands. My AMT Netherlands Olympus HP engine is leagues ahead of the U.S. manufactured engines at the present time in terms of quality craftsmanship, inovation, electronics, power to weight ratio, and most importantly service and reliablity.

regards,
Kim

SAP_2000

Just browsed through the JetCat UK site and was surprised to read that their 160 deliverers 36 LBs (160N) @120K RPM
http://www.jetcatuk.com/indexJ8.htm (bottom of 160 page)

JetCat USA state 34,5 LBs (155N) @128K RPM 650-770 deg.C
http://jetcatusa.sitewavesonline.net/p160.html

JetCat Germany state 33 LBs (150N) @125K RPM 660 deg.C. On the same page they also say 160N or 36 LBs, but at the same time states that RPM range is 33K - 125K RPM. Go figure....[sm=confused.gif]
http://www.cat-ing.de/turbines/jetca...hlturbinen.htm

JetCat UK states 36 LBs (160N) @120K RPM 660 deg.C
http://www.jetcatuk.com/indexJ8.htm

Are these the same engines, or do some people having trouble translating figures...?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Have you asked your dealer yet?

We derate the turbines here on the JetCat USA site. I am not sure what UK or Germany does.

You should ask Germany or UK for what power level they will set and warrant the turbine at.

SAP_2000

He had left work when I called. I'll get him tomorrow...[>:]

De-rating is one thing.... 34,5 LBs @128K and 36 LBs@120K is another, and got nothing to do with electronics.... They all come from the same factory, right??

What do you de-rate the 160 to in the US?

Ian R

Hi all

My 160 experience in a eurosport

bought early 2003 seized solid approx 4hrs run time, fortunately in a good position for emergency landing no damage to airframe.

Sent back via JetCat UK to Germay for rebuild. two week turnaround no charge. this was in Sept 03 runs perfectly since no issue todate ( I know I will regret this statement !!)

hope this helps Ian

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Staale,

I don't know how many ways I can say I only speak for JetCat USA.

Temperatures, pressures, warranty all affect how we rate the motors.

SAP_2000

I don't ask you to do anything else...?? Please don't take offense! But I always thought a JetCat was a JetCat from the same factory no matter which dealer who sells it. Maybe I am wrong, and JetCat Germany makes a mechanically different 160 for each continent....?[:-]