Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

Thrust: 6.3 Kg / 14 lbs ....that is the same as the MW-54 !

David Gladwin

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Wren Super Sport in this thread. Isn't the engine very similar in size to the MW54 but al ot more powerful for the same weight etc.
Regards,
David Gladwin.

TREADSTONE.

rorywquin,

Have a read through this thread the build of a MW 54 Mk III...its all very straightforward....loads of photo's...youl get everything you need bar your batteries...it goes together like a Swiss watch

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Wren...2600920/tm.htm

cactusflyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well Folks,

I don't know if this will clear things up or not but I just measured the thrust on my kit-built MW 54 MkII installed in my Reaper and it showed 13.5+ lbs. Now this is a two year old stock engine with auto-start and the front cowl with the old style compressor. It has 192 flights on it and 31.4 hrs. What can I say, I bought a 12 lb. thrust engine and after a couple years of flying, I've got a 13.5 lb. one! I did the thrust measurement because I am going to install a Mw54 Super Sport in the Reaper and I want to compare the installed thrust and fuel specifics between the two.

I couldn't ask for better customer service from the folks at Wren.

Tailwinds,

John

Gazzer

Smart move,

This is a regulary visited debate on RCU, and difficult for people to be wholly objective as no doubt, there is always a personal preference, just like the BMW/Mercedes argument.

There must be 10 or so regularly referred to manufacturers of turbines, all with good points and pretty reliable products, and most of these clients are happy with their products. For sure, some sales literature will show the product in the best light, we would all do that wouldn't we?

I am a Wren owner. I am delighted, happy, found the MKIII kit easy to build and it worked, as they say, it did what it said on the tin.

I have not built operated or owned another turbine, so my experience is limited.

But I do know a lot about customer service. I do know that a lot of components in other manufacturers products were designed and produced by Wren. I know Wren produced the first commercially available small turbine, the MW44, they have continued an evolution on the 54 now into the MKIII. They have achieved around a 30% uplift in performance from the same size can of the 54 with the Super Sport. Despite production issues, they stuck with it, and the threads are shooting up now on this beastie. Clearly they know what they are doing.

Unparalleled access to Wren with open days, email, attendance at events, undoubtedly and as borne out here on RCU, provides an emphatic level of client contentment, interaction and continued drip feeding of knowledge and advice.

Now the JetCat is a GOOD/EXCELLENT product, and has its niche advantages/disadvantages as the Wren. You talk to the dealers, well respected, excellent experience and knowledge, but one stop away from the manufacturer. I personally wonder about the benefits of so many people competing for such a relatively small market, too many cooks etc, but this is a unique business so may not parallel other business models.

So for me, Wren was able to provide everything I needed, at an economic price meaning excellent value was attained. I have had a couple of hiccups and queries and if not answered via Wren, others in RCU have provided the resolution.

I am convinced there is no better product, but wholly accept there may be equals, but again, for me in my state and capabilities, Wren did it. And I now have the T shirt to prove it!!!

Good luck with your deliberations, do not hesitate to PM me if there is something that you would want to ask.

Gazzer

john agnew

David

I had exactly the same thought. The supersport is small, light, costs about the same as aP60 and can be used on smaller models with the revs or throttle reduced and will also be good for larger models. Effectively you are getting aP60 and P80 in one tubine.

Think about that Rory.

John

Gazzer

Rory,

IF your still undecided, do yourself the famous T Close.

A bit of paper with a huge T drawn on it, the left side put all the advantages to one engine, the right side put all the negatives.

Be honest and deal with the disadvantages, check just how real they are, if you can live with them etc and then do the same for the other engine. Compare the other sheet for the other engine.

If your still undecided at that point, go to budget and take the cheapest, as there is nothing between them!

There is one other massive significant difference between Wren and all the other turbine manufacturers, and I am sorry I do have to point this out, there is no slight or disengenious intention in this final comment.

As a Wren customer, you get to have some of Sarah's cake.....................

Gazzer

smartmove

I hadn't ruled out the Super Sport but is it actually available to buy yet? Also, I do really fancy the idea of building the turbine, will the Super Sport be available in this format? The Wren site seems a little out of data where the Super Sport is concerned.

Gazzer

Smart move,

First versions are available but I think there is a queue. Also the first engines are factory assembled, giving some quality assurance on the first versions, but email Sarah and find out what the sp is.

What you will get is the truth!!!

Gazzer

smartmove

Just had a reply from Sara RE: super sport. It will be about a month before they're through the back orders. It's currently available in ready built format. The readybuilt, full Autostart SS is £1850 and with semi-Autostart (ECO ECU) £1699. They're not going to consider making a kit built version available until they're sure there are no bugs in the system (very sensible). I think I have now decided to go for the standard MW54 MkIII kit build full auto start at £1399. This comes with everything you need to get it running apart from onboard gas kit (I will keep this external anyway) and batteries. A nice little package

key west

So you pay around 2050 Euro for a kit engine without gassolenoid and battery? You can get ready built engines for that money. Just for my understanding, is it because you want to build the engine to get a better understanding of everything inside? Maybe this is good to know and you can do smaller repairs on your own.

TREADSTONE.

Key west

I believe Wren thought it rather prescriptive to supply you with a battery of their choice...some folks like or need the weight of NiCad's....others may prefer LiPo's or whatever....the option is yours..

The photo shows what you dont get ...the onboard tank and filler...thats all.

You do get the gas and fuel solenoid's

key west

TREADSTONE21

I do not know why you are writing in bolt letters? I just asked questions. And that there are no solenoids was a misunderstanding from my side, sorry for that, but from "everything except onboard gas kit" (as smartmove mentioned) I thought there is no solenoid.
Nevertheless, the kit price is nearly as high as a ready to run engine. I just wanted to know why he wants a kit, and not a ready built one.

Gazzer

Key West,

Don't be concerned about the boldening used by Treadstone, it was I am sure purely for emphasis as some confusion had crept in. The smileys at the beginning hopefully reinforce his demeanour, the guy has been nothing but helpful and I can't think for one minute that any offence was intended.

Wren kits are very comprehensive, you even get quality hex drivers with the kit too!!! Wren do tend to reccomend a quick release gas fitting, thus avoiding the weight of the tank and gas on board but allowing quick and easy gas supply to start. Thus some choice is available in respect of the battery, we usually have our favourites (Overlander for me).

Whilst you may get engines ready made for that kind of price, I don't think the thrust weight ratio to be as good unless you considerably up the price, are you as we say in england, comparing apples with apples?

I find some amusement in the whole kit engine versus ready built argument. The one issue constantly raised in the ARTF airframe is that of "I don't know the quality of the build or components".

With Wren you can get the kit and see for yourself, or have the experts assemble it for you, saving some money or investing in knowledge about the device itself, the point is, you have a choice and that is not available with many of the other engine manufacturers.

For me, a kit is fine, I can check each component even if I don't know what I am looking for, whilst learning about how the damn thing works.

If I was pushed for time, then I would buy a pre assembled engine, paying the paltry 50 or so quid that Wren charge for one of the guys who makes the damn thing in the first place, to go the extra mile for me.

I have to say I did enjoy building the kit and know a damn site more about the engine for the future!

Hope that helps put some of the concerns into a different perspective.


Gazzer

TREADSTONE.

.. Oups , Sorry KW... Best watch my P's & Q's a bit more . My fault entirely. In all fairnes i was a bit confused prior to buying the 54 as to exactly what came with the Full Autostart version but now after being surrounded by the Logic that surrounds Wrens Engineering .....well ..i should have Known..

rorywquin

Gary

It costs 200 extra for the ready built, but I must agree that it would be intersting to assemble one!

Gazzer

Rory,

Obviously I have my figures wrong, my apologies, no intention to mislead!!!

I can honestly say not only was it interesting to build, but intriguing, and seriously I am no engineering expert but it went together as it should. That said, I am confident that should I need too, then replacement and diagnosis and of course the inevitable service, mean I am quite comfortable in stripping it down and doing "whatever" is required to resolve.

I can also claim to have built a jet turbine engine, great conversation piece!!

Unlike any of my OS 4 or even 2 stroke engines, which I have never stripped down, the components in a turbine are modest and of low number, the principals are very basic.

Put this way, should you have an arrival at some point, then you will be much more inclined to take the engine apart and check it out thoroughly rather than send it off for a fee, just in case, because it looks like it is ok, and it probably didn't get any FOD. I will bet that a lot of people who have had an arrival with a pre assembled engine, checked it out as thoroughly as they could before starting it again, but this check in real terms would only be cursory. If you had built the kit yourself, then you would be quite happy to dissassemble, check and rebuild. A full build only takes about 4 to 6 hours, (ignore Treadstones thread, he's just making a meal of it, 3 weeks for goodness sake!!!!!!!!!!) so a strip, check and assembly is probably an hour at most.

Peace of mind eh?

I can sense you need to come off the fence, if the wife is threatening to divorce you, and that would really get in the way of your hobbies. Jets are like morphine, but easier to come by!!!

But the choice has to be yours, remember the T close, if its even do it on budget.

Gazzer

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Rory,

I was cleaning out my PMs and I am not sure if I missed one from you...did you get all of the information you needed?


Regards,

3d Marky

Well we were all set to buy the Wren MV54 until talking to people at a UK model show.
To our surprise after speaking to jet pilots on the flightline everyone said buy the JC's as they are literally plug and play and very rarely go wrong. They didn't knock the Wrens but said the JC's just have a superior ECU with fewer start and run issues.
My point was the high servicing costs with JC's and Wrens servicing costs being much less. Wren also providing true customer service. Servicing however may not be a problem or expensive on JC's for people in the USA.

Anyone agree on these points?

Shok

My Feedback: (28)

All I know from Wren is the MW-44.
I get to play with one quite a bit.

The motor is great, but starting can be hit or miss.
If you want a true plug and play go with the JC.
Once its hooked up and running, you never need to mess with it again.
Also maybe even look at Jet Central's Super Bee.
I got a chance in Austin to compare one with my P-60 on the same airframe.
It had better performance and it was also plug and play.

siclick33

Yep.

The Jetcat ECU is amazing but is filled with gadgets you will never use. It is also the size of a house (maybe not quite)!!

My P80 had an ECU fault and needed new bearings which cost me about £500. If this happened to the Wren it would have been significantly cheaper (even with the MW44 which would have to be sent back).

I have a MW44 and a MW54 mk3 with no running issues at all. The ECO ECU is very small and in manual start version, the engines are very simple, take up very little space and installation is very easy.

I am not a great fan of my P80 as it is big and heavy for its power, it is thirsty and spool up is slow. However the engine is very well built and I would certainly buy another Jetcat (but not a P80!).

The Jetcat engines are plug and play but when they don't play it is a nightmare. The Wrens MAY need marginally more tweaking but IF it goes wrong it is not a major drama.

Shok

My Feedback: (28)

I think he was asking about the P-60

siclick33

The comments about servicing costs and the ECU are equally valid for P80 and P60.

I am not even sure who services Jetcats in the UK any more. I am pretty sure that JetcatUK (where I had my work done) is not operating any more, but I could be wrong.

3d Marky

You are correct there is currently no UK servicing agent for Jetcat so all units go back to Germany adding extra expense.

I was originally unsure whether to fit a P70 or the MW54 into my Boom Intro. The P60 was not considered as only 13lbs thrust, less in some recorded cases.
The P70 will fit but have been told this engine is a shrunk down P80. I'm not sure if this engine suffers from the P80 slow spool times. In fact i have limited info on how this engine performs. I have been told it produces 17.5lbs of thrust however expect 16.5lbs in the real world. Very confusing for the new Jet modeler as both engines on reflection seem good reliable units and both are now similar prices.

Gazzer

Marky,

At the end of the day the good thing is you have a choice. The JC engines are renowned and superb quality, out of the box, the kind of "Ford" of the turbine market place, buying one is not a bad decision and I am sure you would be happy.

Wren achieves its fame by providing a superlative product that requires some inaugural attention to set it up, but once there, the follow on benefits, in my view in comparison to the JC range are more rewarding. Fuel consumption, airborne package weight are considerations that the Wren beats JC on both, again in my view.

Great customer service comes from a passion of a company that does nothing else than turbines, JC manufactures other things, as many other competitors do, so you get a real devotion from the team. OK, maybe you don't feel you need that attention from JC and if that's your maxim, easy decision, but the other side of that argument means you don't have quite the performance advantages.

If your on the fence and power is the consideration, get a SuperSport. It is in a league of its own and in the BB, wow.

I find it amusing that we as modellers used to setting up glow and petrol engines, tweaking this, adjusting the other, would worry about doing the same with a turbine, after all the principles are different but once understood, its not a complex process. By the way, my MKIII kit started first time and has run first time every time. I had no help from anyone else, just the kit and the instructions and plenty of reading up, so for me, it was out of the box, although I knew every nut and bolt and did have a nasty cut from the compressor!!

The only issue I have ever had was some burping noises, but I traced this on my workmate stand to sucking in air when the tank was low, it still kept going.

Gazzer