Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Less, but there again Europe in general is not litigation crazy in the way that the US is.

With multi-million dollar US lawsuits for coffee being hot, or for a peanut M&M not having a peanut in it, etc., etc., I guess that US companies and organizations need to be much more anal about their exposure than is the case in Europe.

(Yes, there are some dumb suits filed in Europe too, but far less of them, plus the juries there tend not to be quite so willing to award millions to the idiots who initiate these suits).

I'm not saying that all of the current regs are necessary - just that we should expect to be more regulated than many other countries simply because of the way our legal system "works".

Gordon

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

well what I think this comes down to is that the ones that are pushing this are the ones that do not want to be out of business.
God forbid something happens they are out of business 100% when I say they I mean the Turbine Manufacturers, Jet Manufacturers and all the people that do this for a living, so thank them.

Its all business...................

Just my two Cents on this ...........Johnny Hernandez

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

******All pilots currently holding a Turbine Waiver shall operate within the Level 2 Turbine Waiver. In order to continue to operate at Level 2, each pilot shall pass the Flight Requirements test no later than January 1, 2003. Any pilot who fails to pass the test by that date shall be restricted to a Level 1 waiver. The pilot may then apply for Level 2 waiver. ********


Thats the only beef I have with all this nonsence, I feel that I have proven myself of being capable of flying pretty much any jet and a handfull of pilots that I've seen at the shows.... Why go through that?????


Johnny Hernandez

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I have to agree with you too, can you say overkill?

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

The subject is moot, AMA is NOT changing the Turbine Waiver Regs as you should have read posted above. BUT.........

Even if they did, if you have attended as many jet meets as you say and are as competant as you claim, you WOULD have no problem getting your Level 2 Waiver signed.

'nuf said,

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

Mr Holston,

it has nothing to do with attending meets Mr. Its a mattter of getting in line again and just going through this process again.

How would you like to stand in line to get your Drivers License again after you've been licensed for 5 years? wether is for ten minutes or an hour to do what you have done perfectly with no flaws???

And as you can read Is not the AMA who's trying to change the regs, its the Manufacturers themselves that are nervous of going out of business as you can READ IT IN THE PROPOSAL and take our privilege from Flying turbine powered jets from us which is great that they are trying to let us have such priviledge, but please let us breath!!!!!

Read before you blow up on the people that are on your team Mr.


Regards.............. Johnny Hernandez

rcav8tr

Hi Guys/Gals

I'd just like to say I'm glad I live north of the 49th. Just straight forward safety rules and common sense.

Ed

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I actually took a look at the recommended flight maneuvers that need(recommended?) to be witnessed by the Jet CD for the waiver.

FYI they are at:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/538.pdf

boy there are a lot of people that could not do this set of maneuvers!!! Now remember these are the rules as they stand now, not some new "rules/recommendations" that are not in place. And I realize they are "recommended" but what does that mean?

Look at this one:

· Perform 3 touch & goes in both left and
right hand pattern (6 total) while:
· Maintaining heading (no more than two
wingspans from centerline)
¨
· Landing within a 10-meter long
predetermined touch down zone
¨
· Transition smoothly to take-off
configuration
¨


No more than 2 wingspans!!!! get out of town!!

Also if you read the words and the actual sign off sheet, the cd has to actually witness a 150 mph flight (No "recommendations" here):

"I, ______________________________, certify that I witnessed the following turbine
applicant, ____________________________, AMA # _________________, who
demonstrated to me that he/she operated and flew a high performance model aircraft
exceeding 150 mph safely and satisfactorily."


Is this new as well??

Matt

Modelman

My Feedback: (7)

Ooooo...I know,

How about, the AMA and JPO mandating that you MUST have a current Waiver before you are permitted to purchase an engine from any manufacturer?

Kinda like buying a gun... Gotta have the F.O.I.D. card first.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Hi Matt,

The AMA recently asked me to join the list of Turbine CD's, and before I would say yes, I spent quite a lot of time on the phone with Ilona at the AMA, discussing the required manuevers list so that I could be quite clear on it. The information I'm posting here is from that conversation, and you are welcome to check the accuracy of it with her.

First off, the term "required maneuvers" is wrong - it should be "recommended maneuvers", because they are NOT compulsory.

Why do we have this list ? Well, supposedly, when people asked CD's to sign the turbine waiver application, quite a lot of the CDs who knew nothing about turbines were rather uncomfortable signing these docs - because they did not know exactly what kind of flying skills would be needed for a turbine . This list of maneuvers was consequently drawn up as a *suggestion* to CDs about the level of proficiency that their signature was attesting to.

I asked about the 150mph requirement. I stated that I did not own a radar gun, nor was I going to go out and buy one just so that I could do sign-offs. Ilona said that despite the wording, the pilot does not have to be confirmed to be doing 150 mph, and that an estimate was just fine.

Next I asked about the fact that all maneuvers were listed as required - I told her that there several of these that simply might not be practical on any given day. For instance, I stated that there was no way I was going to require an applicant to do touch and goes in both directions in anything other than calm conditions (many fields are simply too small to allow this to be done safely with an aircraft that has high-ish wing loading. At most I would ask for a series of approaches and go-arounds at low altitude for the downwind direction.

For each point that I brought up, like the above, Ilona repeatedly stressed that these were guidelines and that I was welcome to add to, or subtract from, this list as I deemed necessary - either to suit the conditions or to further assess someone's capabilities if I was unsure at all.

Note that the list of maneuvers does not have a signature section, so the turbine CD is not in fact signing anything that says that you have done all of them.

So, despite its name (I think it should be renamed), it is really just a series of suggestions, not absolute requirements. The docs really should be updated to make this point very clear.

However, this introduces some other problems, as the lattitude that is given to the turbine CD means that some may be quite lax, and some may be very strict. I don't know what the answer to that is, and all that I can promise is that I personally will do my utmost to balance the interests of the applicant with the interests of the people he would endanger if I signed off an unsafe pilot, and that I will try to walk the line between pushover and nazi-examiner. For what they are paying me to do this job, I can't offer any more than that. ;-)

Regs,
Gordon

bkf

My Feedback: (5)

Want to feel real warm and fuzzy? A law suit against the person or persons that put their john hancock on your form in the first place. Remember that little thing down in Florida. That person was going to take everyone but Bush to court. I tried to hire out the fiberglassing of my Roo and was always turned down. Why because they were worried that if there was structural problems after the fact they in turn could get nailed as well. From their view they won't even do balsa planes with glow engines for someone else. They were nice enough about it but concerned and I understood. Bkf
sometimes you just can't win.

NdFrSpeed

My Feedback: (1)

I like your style,if and when I decide to get a waiever,Im going to look you up,the other side of the coin,if you have a person getting a waiever,and there farily good,but not quite there,i would think with very little help from a CD in instructing them as How To and Why,they would be a lot better pilot if they are given the correct information.To be honest I wouldnt even consider getting singed off from anyone other than a Jet Pilot,Because the Jet Jocks know whats going on,and they know what it takes to fly the jets.Im my mind all CD's should be Jet Pilots not someone that just watches and thinks they know whats going on.When I decide to get signed off you can bet I'm going to research and find someone with lots of Jet time to do mine,and all help appreciated when I go and do it.Anything to help save a sizeable inevestment.

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

Talk to Tony F he's the man of stick time if you ask me, you couldnt get signed off by a stronger stick than him.


Johnny Hernandez

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Hey NdrFrSpeed,

You're right to go for someone with plenty turbine stick time if at all possible. Right now that aint me ... I have 20+ years of all-round stick time, but am I'm really low time on the turbine just now - but working hard on it !

I took on the TCD job for now simply because no-one else in the area can do sign-offs, thanks to the requirement that to be on this list you must be a CD - and some of the very best turbine pilots aren't (yet!). There was a geographical hole that needed to be filled at least for the short term, and I just happened to be available, experienced as a CD, and holding a piece of paper that says I know how to run a turbine.

I agree with Johnny about Tony ... and pretty soon local hotshot Chris Huhn may become a CD too, and be able to do TCD sign offs. Guys like these are *much* more qualified than I will ever be, so if you're going to make a trip all the way from AK, you'd be best to call them rather than me. I'll be more than happy to help out too if you wish, but I want to be absolutely clear that I am not a turbine expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Later,
Gordon

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

I hate to sound like a broken record but..... NdrFrSpeed hit the nail on the head with his last post about finding an expereinced pilot. This was the rationale behind the Level 1 and Level 2 system in the JPO proposal. Not to restrict a guy because he wants to fly a turbine but to help him get into them with the proper instruction. None of us want to crash our expensive airplanes, and most of us recognize the need for some help. So why not taylor your turbine rules around that premise so that a guy that wants to fly turbines can go straight to flying turbines without having to go the DF route. Then as he progresses to the point of being experienced he is "examined" (for lack of a better word) in much the same way as he will be "examined" under the new Turbine CD system. The guys that thought up the JPO proposal I can assure you want nothing more than for you guys to get your waivers and join in on the fun!!!

NdFrSpeed

My Feedback: (1)

Not a problem Gordon,I understand what your saying,but part of the point I was trying to get across is,anyone thats been doing a little rsearch should look for a CD thats actually a Pilot of Turbines and not just some CD that thinks he/she knows what Turbine flying is about,they would be way further ahead to look for someone who actually has a considerable amount of stick time,for they know whats going on,and they can also help go over the Jets and help check things out for a good safe plane.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Gordon, I like your style.

It seems to me that the AMA is their own worst enemy, all of this waiver stuff is in place to maintain the insurance coverage, and then they put out ancilliary documentation that is always misworded and/or needs to be interpreted from the first instant of publication.

I applaud the efforts of the JPO, and I also like the idea of a jet savvy CD, I think that was a good addition to the existing system as well.

And with the huge success of turbines (I know JetCAT USA is shipping them out in massive quantities) a lot of people are trying to get their waivers now, and I am sure more as the season gets started this year

Matt

PS Huhn cannot be trusted with an anvil :-)

NdFrSpeed

My Feedback: (1)

As far as makeing a trip down in your neck of the woods,I'LL go you one better to many years in the Frozen North time for relocateing to a warmer climate to enjoy the sunhine more is in order,I've seen enough snow in my life, time for change,Looking foward to meeting some of you fine Pilots in time,and belive me my name says it all.For grins, I ride a Yamaha R1.

Happy Jets

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Johnny,
Ya don't hasta' call me Mr. Ya can jus' call me Holston or Terry, but ya don't hasta' call me Mr.

Sorry if I offended you, That was not my intention. And I wasn't going off on any one! I only wanted to stress the fact, as you put it, I DO have to stand in line to get my drivers license renewed every five years. As is the case with every one else I know here in Indiana, good 'ol USA.
And I see no reason not to require it of the turbine guys. (Once)

As it is now all you have to do is get it once, keep your AMA dues paid up every year and they automatically send you back your waiver. Its as simple as that.

What was discussed, was two levels of waivers, to allow guys like you to be able to get one with the least amount of fuss.

Re read the above posts again, maybe you will comprehend them better.

KXH121

My Feedback: (20)

Nice pic of the Topcat Terry. (thought I would change the subject a bit, have talked to both you and Johnny in the past and you are both fully capable pilots, so can we get a group hug or a whoa bundy?)

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

That was what I was trying to do in my last post.

Besides, check the poll in the other Waiver thread, I was NOT the one that voted for it.!!!