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FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

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Old 11-08-2009, 09:23 PM
  #76
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Jeremy,

Nice to meet ya! I just wanted to know who you were (your name), it's more friendly that way Mate!

Anyway, My jet came apart on flight #5, the other one on it's maiden right after take off. Anton went above and beyond with his service and I appreciate what he did. The Comp-ARF replacements were new birds too...and Andreas stood behind his products like he should have.

If my old F-15 came apart after it's 400+ flights...I would have expected the comments to be like "Gee...I'm surprised it lasted that long you idiot" or something like that. A new plane folding up, blowing apart or what ever on it's maiden...or in the first few flight from structural failure should be covered. Well...that's my humble opinion anyway.

Beave

PS. Have you seen RCPete's Lightning? Wow...what a cream puff!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix

Mr DJ,
Please note, I never said that you have never flown a jet, I know you have flown the shokjet, what I would like to see though is you fly the FEJ stuff that you own. I think it's very important as a Rep that you fly what you represent. I also never said that you should say anything to argue with the head of the company, however, when you are mentioned in a thread, or even if you are not, I would hope as a rep that you would at the very least be trying to explain that this is not typical and speak with James himself to find out all the info instead of disassociating yourself from the issue at hand.

Beave, my name (most people on RCU know me already ) Is Jeremy Ferguson, MAAC # 29228, I've never tried to hide any identity.
I wasn't trying to stir anything up with my comments regarding comp arf or skymaster, but those are exceptions and I would like to know all the circumstances as I know people who lost Comp ARF products and Skymaster products and never had them replaced after structural failures. Having said that I would never expect a manufacture to replace my airframe either, that is truly going above and beyond.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

What bothers me is the fact that al these Chinese airplanes are falling apart. I don't care if the owner gives me a new wing etc. What about my time?

So can someone list the manufacturers from best to worst. Based on experience please.

Thanks
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:30 PM
  #78
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

I don't think that's a fair statement to make "all these chinese airplanes are falling apart". I think they're getting the press more because they're new, just like Skymaster did in the beginning, I've seen plenty of other manufactures airplanes "fall apart" in the past. When the flying season is back I intend fully to fly my FEJ's Liberty hard, if it has an expiration date sooner than I'd like I guess I'll have to live with it
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Well, IMHO...

Comp-ARF 1st.

Skymaster 2nd.

Jet Legend 3rd.

FB and FEJ tied for last.

Beave

PS. I have seen BVM stuff blow apart too...so it's not just "China Junk" that has had issues.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RC_MAN

What bothers me is the fact that al these Chinese airplanes are falling apart. I don't care if the owner gives me a new wing etc. What about my time?

So can someone list the manufacturers from best to worst. Based on experience please.

Thanks
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Unfortunately so far, buying a jet is more or less like buying a used car: you can be lucky or not.


Enrique


[/quote]

Is this the reason more pilots are buying BVM jets ?

Jackjet
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:59 PM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr DJ

The Head of the company spoke to this issue – I will not go behind him and say further. This man lost his plane on the other side of the world, the company Head spoke to the issue...

[snip]

As I've said before, James is a good guy who trys to help people, but as I understand it, he's far from the "head of the company." Several times as I struggled with my FEJ F-15 (also one of the first 10, and I DID NOT get any special deal - that started some time after I, and a lot of others, bought one of the first planes they brought out), I would bring up problems to James and the response would be "the factory says its not a problem, so they will not fix/change it..." Not what one would expect from the "head of the company..."

Bob
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:14 PM
  #82
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Ok maybe not Pilot error but flying your bird on the edge is what we all do You can tell from the video that he was pushing the envelope I dont think that the product should be held responsable for a error. He is a great pilot I can tell the plane was just stressed beyond its limits ? agree?
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:31 PM
  #83
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: RickeyRockstar

Ok maybe not Pilot error but flying your bird on the edge is what we all do You can tell from the video that he was pushing the envelope I dont think that the product should be held responsable for a error. He is a great pilot I can tell the plane was just stressed beyond its limits ? agree?
Flying on the edge? ehh, thats open to interpretation. Honestly, i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt b/c that video does nothing to help or hinder his case, as its pretty much useless, and it doesn't show anything in great detail (except for the sky, which i never knew was blue hehe) But i would love to know how you can tell he is a great pilot from the 10-15 seconds of "in-frame" footage? Do you know him personally? were you there? B/c you seem to have more knowledge of this incident than the rest of us seem to.. at least that is how your comments come across to me.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:41 PM
  #84
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jackjet

Unfortunately so far, buying a jet is more or less like buying a used car: you can be lucky or not.


Enrique

Is this the reason more pilots are buying BVM jets ?

Jackjet
[/quote]

Yes, it is one of the reasons, and probably the strongest.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:52 PM
  #85
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jascat100

Quote:
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jascat100

Looking at the maiden video, that jet took some punishment taking off from that field. Perhaps the wing suffered internal structural damage as a result. After seeing that first take off, I doubt any manufacturer would accept any resonsibilty. Better get a smoother field if you are going to fly jets.

I have to agree with part of that. Any manufacturer who would sell a jet with THAT wing structure would most likely never accept any responsibility for anything at any time....

are you effing kidding me??? [:'(]
No. I am not effing kidding you!!! I see in your signature, you supply turn key jets. I am sure you would not entertain a claim against one of them after seeing the take off in the maiden video. If you do, some might say you would be effing stupid.

Jasscat,

Stupid? Perhaps.... Worse about me has been suggested in times past, but somehow I find the strength to live. It doesn't, however, change the fact that your assessment that a takeoff on a bumpy runway should absolve a mfgr from responsibility for supplying a TURBINE 'ARF' with the spar structure in the picture is, to be polite, silly. That would be like saying to a pedestrian, walking in a crosswalk with a green light, who had just been struck by an errant vehicle driven by an unlicensed drunk driver that the driver has no liability because the pedestrian was wearing dirty socks...

I'm not sure what jets you're currently flying, but I am fairly confident that they have something stronger than a balsa spar box supporting the main spar. I've outfitted several ARFs and built several jets from kits, for myself and for my customers, and none of them have left my table with what even the most inexperienced jet modeler would immediately identify as an inadequate crucial structure.

In fairness, you're right that I would not honor a claim after having seen that video if the claim were against bent struts.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:22 AM
  #86
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

As many of you know, I have built many Asian aircraft, including prototype work for several companies. I'll voice what I think I've learned:

1) Not all Asian companies are equal. Those that have been around for a while with strong leaders who watch over quality turn out relatively good product.
2) Most (again, not all) Asian companies push product into market with little or no test flying. If you buy an early kit, your expectation should be that you are a test pilot, that the odds are high you will find some problems, and that you are putting up with the risk and additional engineering work for an early kit and a low end cost.
3) The quality of the hardware that accompanies the plane is definitely proportional to the quality of the airframe itself. Look for kits that have top notch cylinders, landing gear and other mechanicals.
4) Engineering problems aside, construction quality can vary day by day. Expect to go through these kits looking for things like missed glue joints, pieces that need carbon fiber reinforcement, loose bolts on pre-assembled components, brittle hinges, parts built out of alignment, etc., before you ever start construction.

I have had good service experience with Comp ARF, Yellow and SM.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:03 AM
  #87
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Hello,

would like to put something straight.
The model I had in February 2009 from one of Modellau company in Germany.
In order to build esfertig.
This has to reinforce the model of FlyEagleJets in the middle of 2008 for a 16kg turbine.
At least he was assured by the FlyEagleJets.
And he has assured me. Not because I asked to endure it. But without questioning too.
I have not written by FEJ.
When the model was finished, I bought it, it was just before the first flight.
I give my word of honor and I am in 2010 on the jet power, and if I lie, should you beat me solid.
Also in the area I wanted to watch. As far as I could. But I can discover nothing.

Should I drill holes around the area now look at?
If I had the elevator will also drill holes?
I lifted the plane to the wing ends!
Was that wrong now?
Because the leg was determined already begun?
Perhaps even in a carton wärend the voyage or flight?
Has the postman dropped the box and the leg has begun?

Questions, questions! ;-)

The F-15 has been paid for 1500 €.
I made three flights!
And in my opinion, not overloaded.
The runway at 1x Maiden was no golf course. I would have aborted the landing gear would not say anything.

Flyeaglejets tested on customers!
I did not know before!
Then I had the model do not want.
My time and the responsibility I will not accept at all. Just imagine. A car manufacturer says driving the car once and test it. We do not know whether the steering and brakes to keep working.
Never start with spectators.

Even if it only cost me $ 100. Should the manufacturer be Responsible.

And all this way and that I can not prove, I can only give my word. FEJ may be evidence? PLEASE!

I know that is the attachment of the wing of absolute garbage. And I say that everyone knows, even if he has built only a sailor.
Would have kept at a very very soft 8Kg turbine and flying style. Maybe!
Why is now built differently? Perhaps keep it now, I hope so. My concern is that at the company FlyEagleJets customer service is very very small.

On 05.10.09 I wrote the first, very nice mail to FEJ. With video and images,
after several demands: get mail?

On 23.10.09, the first response I got, I should read the instructions. The responsibility of the pilot.
EFJ has nothing to do ...
After the fifth email I've written, I question whether the leg was good times in the forums, of course, the post is blackmail. ;-)

Should I write to accommodate Thanks for you?

Who is the opinion, which is the quality of construction in order. Please, I want no dead pilots, or viewers.

Thanks and Greetings Uwe
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:50 AM
  #88
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Hello there,

Something in this matter....

One has to understand Proper R/D costs money....
Some of these companies have allmost no knowledge about what they are doing no to speack of the use of any quilified personel in the field of their business...no aeronautical engineers ,aero structural and aero mechanical engineers or a composite structural specialist.....they mostly copy what ever works to help them carry out thier goals....to sell as many as possible....this income for these fareastern companies is big money comaperd to the labor invested, so their profit is "nice"...
They don't know or just ignore the danger involved in their doing. The responsability they carry is beyond the replacement of a certain part it is the colateral damage that their products can do.
The ball is in our hands if we want them to improve their products...

Some things to go into a preliminary design....
A. Aerodynamical design......wing ..airfoil ..size of control sufaces and loading...tail airfoil...tail volume ....fin...C/G...power source.. so on.
B. Structural design....what material to be used where and how much....
C. If retracts are used then ....Mechanical design of forces and so on.

These tasks are to be carried out by profesional personell.....

The evidence in the present is that it is not .....

If us the modelers want to get better products we should buy less from these companies until their quality impruves to an accepted standart...

At least if I buy an arf I should not start rengeneering it and replace parts necesary to be airworthy not to speak that it must not come apart in the air at accepted flying loads.


The reasult is poorly designed and carried out products which at the end put in danger the ones that are using them and the surounding viewers or inhabitants.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:36 AM
  #89
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

So, overnight we have had ad hominem attacks on Mr DJ cluttering the thread with two pages of unhelpful point scoring; a trickle of further information about the airframe involved in the incident; and nobody choosing to comment upon the apparent unsafety of how the plane was being flown. Uwe professes to not want to hurt anybody. Query. What would have happened if that model had fallen apart in the pull up from that wacky fly-by toward the parked cars? Query. What was the level of risk of harm to anybody sitting in one of them? Does anybody on here targetting FEJ fancy sitting in a car watching that wreck approaching them? I do not expect so.

Lets consider the history of the airframe some more. We now know that it was "strengthened" for a 16Kg turbine. That, by my rough reckoning is 35lbs thrust. What was the manufacturer's recommendation for turbine power at the time the model was sold? The current recommendation for both standard and advanced FEJ F-15Cs is 12 Kg/ 26 Lbs. So, someone, somewhere has wanted to overpower the incident airplane by 33%. Is anybody going to say that is a sensible / safe thing to do? Would their waivers be safe if they did something like that? As to the "strengthening" then plainly the "engineer" who did that failed to do anything to strengthen the spar box because if, and please note that word if, the spar box is inadequate for the model powered as recommended by FEJ, it sure as heck is inadequate for a model overpowered by 33%.

Lets consider the apparent issue of grain in the spar construction. It looks to me as if the grain runs span-wise. The principal airborne load on a spar is vertical, so it seems to me that span-wise grain is the strongest way of constructing that box as the load will compress the grain. Conversely, vertical grain alignment would have loads shearing the grain.

Now, as somebody has said, S*** Happens. I have lost plenty enough r/c planes to know that almost always it has been down to me - if I am honest about it. Lost RX power because I failed to check for blackwire after the winter lay-up; structural failure because I flew an Extra after a rough landing in which the wing-tip dug in without checking the wing; launching with the wrong model selected on the Tx; even once trying to fly a maiden with airlerons reversed. I hope that as a result I learned from the MISTAKES I MADE, but I know, for sure, that in none of them did I try and blame anybody else, far less the manufacturer of a boxed kit I bought in a shop; assembled; installed; carried to the flightline; and started to commit aviation with.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:12 AM
  #90
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: KC36330

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr DJ

Appologies, I missread your post - you know how everyone want's a piece of me for some reason - like I stole something from them [img][/img] Thank you, Sir

I'll try to overlook it this time

Oh, BTW i did find that video for the proof you've flown a jet for those of concern......... http://vimeo.com/2944095
Now that is some serious "rep-type" jet flying !
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:13 AM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

sorry, if I understand this wrong.
Do you think I'm Irresponsible? Because I fly towards the parked cars? That you are wrong then. The flight path before the wing was leaving was just in the landing direction transverse to the airport. So far the protection fence. In ten meters height. The white car is mine because none was sitting in there. When the demolition area. The approach will literally see how the F-15 leaves to the left.

And in the F-15 Eagle was at 13.5 kg instead of 16, the standard is intended to run for manufacturers 12.5% more and no 33rd

And these are 16% less. As was expected during the construction by the manufacturer.

And once again it was not full throttle, just over half. But as has often been written. All this can be another ten years now, yes the debate. Back and forth where we all agree are and what concerns me is not a bad suspension ... The leg attachment and I still send a few photos. This is absolute junk, and the manufacturer is not to do so. That's the bad ...

greetings Uwe
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:21 AM
  #92
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Now sober times, I've calmed down.

The aircraft will be better, no question.
For example, a customer service and responsiveness. Would I ever again support.
THIS WAS AN ERROR OF ME!
My next bird is a kit.
Then I know the wing does not break off.
And if it was my fault.

THANK YOU for your concern, AND THE OPINIONS!
Uwe
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Old 11-09-2009, 07:32 AM
  #93
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

sperx, i disagree on the proper grain for a wing tube box. the grain should be vertical. it is like shear webbing to a spar. the tube is the spar and the box is the shear webbing that assist in attaching the spar to the skin. all of that a side, it was balsa. no way is that strong enough. it is like kieth said too, quality varies from day to day. some may have been plywood til they ran out. i was once a part of a 5 plane purchase from fei beo in its infancy. 3 of the 5 had carbon in the wings, 2 had none. all bought at the same time. it is the way it is. some chinese mfg's have quality control issues and some have less. jeti, i feel for your loss and i agree, you cant look into a wing that is sealed up. barry
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:02 AM
  #94
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

The only thing I can see yanking and banking in the maiden video is the video camera - there is one hard pull-up in front of
the windmills, but apart from that, I didn't see anything that I haven't done with all my planes. If the construction can't take
that, it's not qualified as a model jet. The runway, however, would not be my first choice...

Tor
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:18 AM
  #95
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

There is really no bashing of you Mr DJ. It is just a valid questioning how someone who does not fly FEJ products can be their rep and offer sales advise on their products.

You have a lot of enthusiasm which is good, but I'd recommend letting go of the rep title until you actually start flying real RC jets. Especially the ones you represent. A ShockJet is basically a Kadett 60 with a jet engine and has noting much in common with flying an F-18. Judging from your videos, you are still struggling to land a high wing Cessna prop plane. But don't worry, we have all been there. It all gets easier with practise.

FEJ is definately the bottom of the barrel of the Jet ARF world. They have a lot to learn, but it looks like they are improving their game. Personally I think it's nice to have the option of a cheaper alternative to the more expensive and evolved models on the market. But, as long as FEJ's stuff keeps being on the top of the RCU list with so many problems, I'll be holding of my purchases.

Here is an idea for FEJ. Why not "hire" an qualified scratch builder to fly to china and spend a few weeks going over their production process. Someone with real knowledge of jet construction. Then learn from that and listen to the improvemens recomended. Some of their glaring mistakes shows that they know very little about construction techniques and quality control.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:12 AM
  #96
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Rickyrockstar can tell it was stressed beyond it's limit. No kidding, but he blames Jeti for doing that. []
Sperx thinks you run balsa grain spanwise. That kind of says it all about his opinion.
The people that know, have looked at the picture in the first post, and the picture of the " new improved " wing structure, and excluded the manufacturer from future consideration. Jeti, you won't get any compensation for this, but know you have cost FEJ, more loss in future sales than they will ever know.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:33 AM
  #97
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RickeyRockstar

Ok maybe not Pilot error but flying your bird on the edge is what we all do You can tell from the video that he was pushing the envelope I dont think that the product should be held responsable for a error. He is a great pilot I can tell the plane was just stressed beyond its limits ? agree?
NO, I DISAGREE. I reinforced the wings on my FEJ F-15 as I showed in my post in the other thread - the way that they should have been built in the FIRST PLACE if they knew how to properly engineer a jet model - and I've thrashed mine harder than that and it shows no signs of coming apart. I've also flown a JL F-15, unmodified, harder than that and it was fine.

The original method of attaching the carbon spars to the wings with balsa shear webs (with the grain running the wrong direction) was totally inadequate for a jet model. ANYONE with experience in building/designing a jet model would have known that!

Bob
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:39 AM
  #98
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MathewFoxx


Here is an idea for FEJ. Why not "hire" an qualified scratch builder to fly to china and spend a few weeks going over their production process. Someone with real knowledge of jet construction. Then learn from that and listen to the improvemens recomended. Some of their glaring mistakes shows that they know very little about construction techniques and quality control.
That's because this costs $$, something FEJ and other newer Chinese companies are obviously not prepared to do. Their philosophy is to make as many $$ without spending any.

I think the fact that FEJ has majorly changed the construction of these wing spar boxes is evidence enough that there was a problem in the construction of same. We don't know how many wings fell off these originally desingend FEJ jets before they changed construction. A responsible company would have done a recall on all outstanding wings (car companies do recalls all the time on unsafe products, and replace dangerous vehicles if need be). As FEJ has not done this, and the damage as evidenced in the photo (the destroyed wing spar box), should be enough for FEJ to say that they are at fault. Everyone who is saying that Uwe should not have flown this plane like this, I wonder how YOU actually fly.

As for customer AFTER service, many of these Chinese companies do not know what that is, as seen in the countless threads of mishaps due to poor factory construction on these jets, and the stock company response "Read the instructions, we not at fault, we not responsible". Tough luck.

RCU is a great forum to inform everyone what JUNK some of these jets are. Unfortunately FEJ and other Chinese companies sell worldwide, and not every jet pilot reads forums such as these. Even with these warnings to stay away, they still sell hundreds of these accidents waiting to happen.

Tim

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Old 11-09-2009, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MathewFoxx

[snip]

Some of their glaring mistakes shows that they know very little about construction techniques and quality control.
BINGO! Now, don't say that too often around here or you'll be "bashing.." []

Jeti, again, I'm sorry for your loss, but you have to go back and see that this information on the FEJ F-15 (and FEJ jets in general) was already here on RCU. Again, you can't bring it up too often though or you get jumped upon...

Bob
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:06 AM
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Default RE: FlyEagleJet F-15 disintegrated in the air - WARNING

Deal All frineds:

Thanks for all of your great comment and suggestions. We do appreciate it. Over two years, we have done many improvement on the model quality. Especially after coming back from Jet Power 2009, we also have done some improvement on production quality and using high technical skill to produce models. You can take a look from our website here to get some more information, such as F35A, F18F 1/6 scale http://www.flyeaglejet.com/F181.6.html 

All of your comment and suggestions are very important to us.Thanks a lot.

Note: We do not answer question here. If you have any question, you can send email to hc@flyeaglejet.com

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FLY EAGLE JET
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