would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
06-06-2011, 08:54 PM
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would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
I am finishing up a new pattern plane and I'm a few onces over weight. Do you guys think a carbon rod instead of a piece of music wire would be strong enough to hinge together a removable rudder?
Should I be worried about the carbon fiber wearing into the hinges?
Should I be worried about the carbon fiber wearing into the hinges?
06-06-2011, 09:22 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
A carbon rod would be plenty strong to hinge a rudder. However, I'd be concerned about the rod wearing down by the friction of the hinges, dirt, etc, rather than the hinges being worn by the rod. A lot of that depends on what the hinges are made from. If they're nylon, I don't think you'd have any problems. If they're phenolic, as in the Integral, there could be a problem but I wouldn't expect an instant catastrophic failure. The wear would be gradual, if at all, and something you could easily spot if you inspect it on a regular basis.
Verne Koester
Verne Koester
ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun
I am finishing up a new pattern plane and I'm a few onces over weight. Do you guys think a carbon rod instead of a piece of music wire would be strong enough to hinge together a removable rudder?
Should I be worried about the carbon fiber wearing into the hinges?
I am finishing up a new pattern plane and I'm a few onces over weight. Do you guys think a carbon rod instead of a piece of music wire would be strong enough to hinge together a removable rudder?
Should I be worried about the carbon fiber wearing into the hinges?
06-07-2011, 02:52 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
My plane is an Impact with a Focus built wing and stab. It weighs in at 11#10 Ounces.
06-07-2011, 03:05 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
I'm running a YS 1.70 CDI with an APC 15.75 X 13 prop and Truturn spinner. I am using a Centrals Hobbies header connected to a long Hatori pipe. I could cut up my chin cowl. The way the engine sits it looks like I should have plenty of cooling. Do you think I will be alright?
06-07-2011, 03:15 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
For my radio set up I'm using an Airtronics 7ch 2.4 received and a SD-10G radio. Servos I'm using Futaba 9151 on the rudder and elevator and 9102's on the ailerons. I guess I'm going to use one battery pack which is a Fromeco 7.4 volt 2600mah lithium Ion pack and a Sahara voltage regulator on a JR heavy duty switch. I still need to install a throttle servo and mount some stuff down. I was holding off on that till I was able to check for proper balance. Luckily its balancing out good. I will probably swap out the 23 ounce bladder tank for a standard one.
06-07-2011, 03:22 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
The battery pack weighs in at about 3.7 ounces and the regulator 1.1 ounces. My wing panels weigh in at about 1#2 ounces each. One panel is a 1/2 ounce heavier than the other.
I will lose the wing spring in favor of 1/4-20 nylon thumb screws and nylon washer. With some of the changes i've made i'v removed 6 ounces. I still need to make a header bracket and apply some graphics along with the throttle servo and fuel filter.
I need to remove as much weight as possible. What could I set up differently?
Evan
I will lose the wing spring in favor of 1/4-20 nylon thumb screws and nylon washer. With some of the changes i've made i'v removed 6 ounces. I still need to make a header bracket and apply some graphics along with the throttle servo and fuel filter.
I need to remove as much weight as possible. What could I set up differently?
Evan
06-07-2011, 03:35 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
I'm flying advanced this year here in District 5. What a fun pattern! I haven't flown to much the past several years but looking to get out to all the local contests this year. I'm trying to get the plane ready to go for the Tri-Village contest in Hoffman Estates IL June 25-26. Rumor has it Chip Hyde and Andrew Jesky might be there. I'd go any ways to see my buddy Bobby Satelino and the rest of the D5 gang.
06-07-2011, 08:56 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun
The battery pack weighs in at about 3.7 ounces and the regulator 1.1 ounces. My wing panels weigh in at about 1#2 ounces each. One panel is a 1/2 ounce heavier than the other.
I will lose the wing spring in favor of 1/4-20 nylon thumb screws and nylon washer. With some of the changes i've made i'v removed 6 ounces. I still need to make a header bracket and apply some graphics along with the throttle servo and fuel filter.
I need to remove as much weight as possible. What could I set up differently?
Evan
The battery pack weighs in at about 3.7 ounces and the regulator 1.1 ounces. My wing panels weigh in at about 1#2 ounces each. One panel is a 1/2 ounce heavier than the other.
I will lose the wing spring in favor of 1/4-20 nylon thumb screws and nylon washer. With some of the changes i've made i'v removed 6 ounces. I still need to make a header bracket and apply some graphics along with the throttle servo and fuel filter.
I need to remove as much weight as possible. What could I set up differently?
Evan
You didn't mention the weight of the HDswitch, or how you plan to power the CDI, but you should be able tosave weight in this setup with either a single or dual redundant Tech-Aero failsafe switch regulator setup.What are you using to power the CDI? I'm assuming that it's a separate switch and battery weighing several ounces. Instead, you can also take power for it from the receiver bus with an Ultra IBEC and eliminate the weight of the ignition battery and switch, and at the same time build in a way to switch the CDIpower on/off from the transmitter ANDset a failsafe condition to cut the engine. I fly a dual regulator, dual 850 mAh LiPo setup to power everything, with the Tech-Aero Ultra IBEC for the CDI and it weighs 5.4 oz in total.
You could also do it with a single failsafe switchTech-Aeroregulator, single battery (keep your existing 3.7 oz battery), eliminate the weight of the JR HDswitchand use the Ultra IBEC and it would come out to 5.2 oz total to power everything.
06-08-2011, 04:59 AM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
I would not select this material for this application since a carbon rod is really poor holding shear stress as well as this type of friction. I use a 0,5 mm music wire on my Xigris C1.
Now if delro puts it on their kits, it is a different story and it surely works...
good luck!
06-11-2011, 06:03 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun
I'm running a YS 1.70 CDI with an APC 15.75 X 13 prop and Truturn spinner. I am using a Centrals Hobbies header connected to a long Hatori pipe. I could cut up my chin cowl. The way the engine sits it looks like I should have plenty of cooling. Do you think I will be alright?
I'm running a YS 1.70 CDI with an APC 15.75 X 13 prop and Truturn spinner. I am using a Centrals Hobbies header connected to a long Hatori pipe. I could cut up my chin cowl. The way the engine sits it looks like I should have plenty of cooling. Do you think I will be alright?
The following ideas will cost you some money:
The TT spinner should have a lightened backplate. It's worth the extra money. If your wheels are foam rubber types from Hanger 9 for example, you can sand (with a belt sander) foam off and shave 1/2 ounce; also, you could probably lose the pants and save a couple ounces. Prop is heavy; see if you can find a carbon alternative like a 18 or 19 x 11 2 blade. Check Mezjlik, Falcon, or PT Models. Or wood such as Xoar or Falcon
The wing panel weights are on the heavy side at 18 ozs each. This wing size normally comes in at 13-14 ozs each panel, rtf.
Good luck
06-12-2011, 08:14 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
I have used a CF rid in robart hinge points on a bigger plane and it works, doesnt seem to wear, used wax as a lubricant; shear strength seems adequate for the load.
06-22-2011, 05:05 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
Well I was able to get the plane down to 11#3.75 ounces. I decided not to use a carbon fiber rod on the rudder. I don't believe the 3 grams I would have saved would be worth it if it were to break! I thought there might be more weight there than that.
I set up my CDI to run off the reciever pack. The elimination of the second battery saved 88 grams. The loss of the second switch saved 21 grams. I was able to lose 17 grams in extra wiring in the plane. I cut off the deans connector and shortened the wires off the battery to what was needed. I got rid of the heavy duty wire extentions to the aileron servos. I was able to remove 28 grams of extra padding I had wrapped around the CDI unit. I shaved off about 15 grams in fuel tubing. I didn't realize just how heavy padding and fuel tubing really are. I had some thin fuel tubing I used on my vent line. I was also able to save 2 ounces by removing the wing spring in favor of nylon bolts. I hope the fuselage can take the strain of gut wrenching snap rolls.
I flew the plane last weekend but ended the flight short due to an engine problem. I was able to complete a few basic trim manuever checks like the power off downline and knife edge flight in both directions. Plane tracks very straight in all those manuevers but I had to put in quite of bit of down elevator trim to achieve level flight. In straight inverted flight I have to hold in some more down elevator to keep it level. I feel this is more than I should need with this trim condition. What do you guys think I should adjust to get rid of some of this down elevator trim? In my power off downline it tracked very straight but it might have a super slight pull to the canopy maybe. In knife edge very straight both directions.
Hopefully with weather permitting I will get a few more trim passes in and report back. If not I will have to fly the Angel Shadow at the contest this weekend.
I set up my CDI to run off the reciever pack. The elimination of the second battery saved 88 grams. The loss of the second switch saved 21 grams. I was able to lose 17 grams in extra wiring in the plane. I cut off the deans connector and shortened the wires off the battery to what was needed. I got rid of the heavy duty wire extentions to the aileron servos. I was able to remove 28 grams of extra padding I had wrapped around the CDI unit. I shaved off about 15 grams in fuel tubing. I didn't realize just how heavy padding and fuel tubing really are. I had some thin fuel tubing I used on my vent line. I was also able to save 2 ounces by removing the wing spring in favor of nylon bolts. I hope the fuselage can take the strain of gut wrenching snap rolls.
I flew the plane last weekend but ended the flight short due to an engine problem. I was able to complete a few basic trim manuever checks like the power off downline and knife edge flight in both directions. Plane tracks very straight in all those manuevers but I had to put in quite of bit of down elevator trim to achieve level flight. In straight inverted flight I have to hold in some more down elevator to keep it level. I feel this is more than I should need with this trim condition. What do you guys think I should adjust to get rid of some of this down elevator trim? In my power off downline it tracked very straight but it might have a super slight pull to the canopy maybe. In knife edge very straight both directions.
Hopefully with weather permitting I will get a few more trim passes in and report back. If not I will have to fly the Angel Shadow at the contest this weekend.
06-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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RE: would a carbon fiber rod be strong enough to hinge a removable rudder?
You need some more flights to verify everything it's doing. Down trim for level flight along with needing to hold down for inverted flight doesn't quite compute. Down trim for level flight along with no down inverted and I'd say you're tail heavy. Make sure to start with your plane trimmed for hands off, straight and level flight. Then see what happens when you're inverted. See what it does on vertical up and on both knife edges. From there, I would refer you to Bryan Hebert's triangulation trimming articles (Google it). If you follow Bryan's advice, you'll get to where you want to be. Bryan will tell you that fixing one problem usually corrects two or three symptoms. However, yours don't seem to match up unless I'm missing something. Starting off trimmed for hands-off straight and level is critical to evaluating everything else. I'm at close to 100 flights on my new plane and I'm almost there. Be patient and good luck!!!!
Verne Koester
Verne Koester
ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun
Well I was able to get the plane down to 11#3.75 ounces. I decided not to use a carbon fiber rod on the rudder. I don't believe the 3 grams I would have saved would be worth it if it were to break! I thought there might be more weight there than that.
I set up my CDI to run off the reciever pack. The elimination of the second battery saved 88 grams. The loss of the second switch saved 21 grams. I was able to lose 17 grams in extra wiring in the plane. I cut off the deans connector and shortened the wires off the battery to what was needed. I got rid of the heavy duty wire extentions to the aileron servos. I was able to remove 28 grams of extra padding I had wrapped around the CDI unit. I shaved off about 15 grams in fuel tubing. I didn't realize just how heavy padding and fuel tubing really are. I had some thin fuel tubing I used on my vent line. I was also able to save 2 ounces by removing the wing spring in favor of nylon bolts. I hope the fuselage can take the strain of gut wrenching snap rolls.
I flew the plane last weekend but ended the flight short due to an engine problem. I was able to complete a few basic trim manuever checks like the power off downline and knife edge flight in both directions. Plane tracks very straight in all those manuevers but I had to put in quite of bit of down elevator trim to achieve level flight. In straight inverted flight I have to hold in some more down elevator to keep it level. I feel this is more than I should need with this trim condition. What do you guys think I should adjust to get rid of some of this down elevator trim? In my power off downline it tracked very straight but it might have a super slight pull to the canopy maybe. In knife edge very straight both directions.
Hopefully with weather permitting I will get a few more trim passes in and report back. If not I will have to fly the Angel Shadow at the contest this weekend.
Well I was able to get the plane down to 11#3.75 ounces. I decided not to use a carbon fiber rod on the rudder. I don't believe the 3 grams I would have saved would be worth it if it were to break! I thought there might be more weight there than that.
I set up my CDI to run off the reciever pack. The elimination of the second battery saved 88 grams. The loss of the second switch saved 21 grams. I was able to lose 17 grams in extra wiring in the plane. I cut off the deans connector and shortened the wires off the battery to what was needed. I got rid of the heavy duty wire extentions to the aileron servos. I was able to remove 28 grams of extra padding I had wrapped around the CDI unit. I shaved off about 15 grams in fuel tubing. I didn't realize just how heavy padding and fuel tubing really are. I had some thin fuel tubing I used on my vent line. I was also able to save 2 ounces by removing the wing spring in favor of nylon bolts. I hope the fuselage can take the strain of gut wrenching snap rolls.
I flew the plane last weekend but ended the flight short due to an engine problem. I was able to complete a few basic trim manuever checks like the power off downline and knife edge flight in both directions. Plane tracks very straight in all those manuevers but I had to put in quite of bit of down elevator trim to achieve level flight. In straight inverted flight I have to hold in some more down elevator to keep it level. I feel this is more than I should need with this trim condition. What do you guys think I should adjust to get rid of some of this down elevator trim? In my power off downline it tracked very straight but it might have a super slight pull to the canopy maybe. In knife edge very straight both directions.
Hopefully with weather permitting I will get a few more trim passes in and report back. If not I will have to fly the Angel Shadow at the contest this weekend.
