Art ARRO

My Feedback: (5)

Pat,
Firstly, I wish to thank you for your very informative thread on painted wings, stabs, etc-a lot of excellent info presented.
I used to pylon race, flying Formula I where the finish determined the order of takeoff and you strived to have that 2 second lead for the pole position. I now fly sport turbine jets and E-sailplanes- opposites in terms of performance but still challenging. Also, I've developed vision problems from interocular surgery followed by cataract surgery and loss of stereopsis for close-in depth perception. What helps to discern my RC models is to have contrasting colors on top and bottom with the lighter shades on top and darker on the bottom. This works by reverse countershading, the opposite of camouflaging the object against a neutral background. Also, I apply bright colors to the wingtips and tail surfaces to have these surfaces standout to aid in model orientation. Overall, I prefer white wings and upper fuselage surfaces, dark blue or green undersides and bright red or orange tips and tail. Question on the Ultracoat Safety Orange, is this color preferred over the standard Orange, Fluorescent Orange or their Transparent Orange? Your response would be most appreciated as we're currently in the building/finishing season here in the northeast.
Thanks in advance.
Art ARRO

kenh3497

I had cataract surgery at age 50 (60 now). Only one eye needed it but had both done because the new eye focused in a different plain than the other and drove me batty . Might want to check with your eye doc to see if doing the other eye might help I wound up 20-25 and 20-30. I too had floaters but they seem to be diminishing. I also am having some double vision mostly when I'm tired. Just had an eye exam and was told at this point not to worry. It sucks getting old

Red on the bottom and yellow on the top works the best for me. In the photo of my Breitling CAP I did large (1/4 of wing) red/yellow blocks on the bottom. That works pretty good. The graphics on the top disappear at distance. Good advice about always being able to see a wing on a biplane. I have a Goldberg, Bucker Jungman on the bench as I write. My first bipe in 30 years. I'll see how it compares in visibility.



Ken

Portlandflyer

Good information. In my case, I want that massive contrast between the bottom and top as you say and I do that with the Ultra Cote. I haven't used their Florescent Orange, but have to assume it will do the same as Safety. Their regular orange won't do what I am after as I want that FLASH that I get with Safety Orange. Same with Transparent...it wouldn't do what I am after. Like I said, the Orange looks crazy on the ground, but is perfect in the air for me. Besides that, nobody cares about the bottom of your wings...in fact, most don't care about the top! I put white on the wing tips on the bottoms, just so the judges can't catch that orange flash if I don't have a level wing.

EHFAI

Pat, also thanks for taking the time to write this thread - lots of great info.

Regarding the Ultra Kote Florescent Orange, it presents very well but fades like crazy!

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Hey Pat
The plane is so beautiful.
I hope to see it in person soon.
We'll be at the Arvin/Bakersfield Contest In April
Thanks for sharing your plane pictures and story. For those who enjoy building CA Models offers it's complete lineup in Kit, and ARC versions.
F3AUnlimited is the retailer for these planes.
Thanks and have a great day.
Mike Mueller

Art ARRO

My Feedback: (5)

Pat,
Thanks for the quick response and I'll check with my LHS to purchase or order some Ultracoat Safety Orange. For my painted finishes I usually mix K&B Superpoxy Red and Orange, 50-50, to get the best discernible color against most sky conditions. On built up sailplane wings the Transparent Orange seems to work well especially for the tip panels and tail feathers. I also place a chrome trim stripe on the leading edge of the wing to catch the sun glint during turns, as in thermaling. Many thanks again.
Art

Portlandflyer

Earl,

Not when it's on the bottom!

Portlandflyer

Mike,

And thank you. Guys, I had Mike handle to whole transaction with CA on this plane and it went without a hitch and I think he saved me at least a hundred bucks as well.

Mike...Rex and I are hoping to make it to Arvin. Guys are bugging me already to go, but it is a long, long drive.

Portlandflyer

Art,

Thanks for your input as well. You will love the Safety Orange. Anything else, let me know.

EHFAI

Pat

Not so, the stuff will fade a bunch even when on the bottom. Half a season will show major fade. I guess there's more inverted flight in the sequences than we realize! On the top it'll fade to clear in a season.

Portlandflyer

Earl,

Maybe it's the florescent version. I haven't had that happen with Safety Orange, but than again, it's so stupid bright that even if it faded, how would I ever know it! I have heard that the florescent fades bad. Maybe I just lucked onto the right color. Even it faded too bad, it's not a lot of work to rip it off and put new on.

EHFAI

Pat

I just painted over the UC with fluorescent paint - easier to spray it than replace it - and the paint didn't fade.

Portlandflyer

Good idea

Rudy

I got to see Pat's plan fly today. After four flights he flew a P17 that was competitive. The paint is amazing in the sunlight. The canopy looks like it is and inch deep. The other colors are brilliant. Each color is in a class of its own. A must see in person to really appreciate the planes paint. And, the plane it's self is gorgeous. The lines flow effortlessly into each other gracefully. At first we thought it was going to have to be flown a little quickly but by the fourth flight it was flying rather slow and like it was on rails. Down lines are just so slow. Everything was a constant speed. Snaps are effortless and it stops right now. WOW. Great plane and even better workmanship.

Portlandflyer

Rudy...your check is in the mail.

kenh3497

Well I'm fairly certain I found the source of my fish eyes. I won't mention any names but I found my spousal unit using my "painting towels" to dust the furniture. Of course they got a regular spray of Pledge and when washed copious amounts of fabric softener were used. Those will be regulated to dusting dutie and I will purchase new to replace. My "painting towels" were white shop towels that were washed seperatly, no softener and stored in a plastic bat to protect from contamination.

Onward and forward.....

Ken

Portlandflyer

That could do it.

scratchpc7

Well, thanks to Pat, now have at least some know-how on painting. still learning but I was able to use some of the techniques in this thread to get started. The first real attempt at painting. The surface is the best I have had yet.

For this one used duplicolor primer and white for the base coat. The purple is Testors fluorescent airbrush paint, and the green and black is Wicked Color water-based airbrush paint. The Wicked Color sprayed very well with the Paasche VL airbrush. Not sure on the purple since I got some bleed-thru under the vinyl mask. Not sure if it is a paint reaction between the acrylic paint and the white, or technique, as in too-thick paint or not enough pressure. But in either case, pretty happy with it and looking on building my painting skills.

The plane is a BS Industries Formula V500 kit. A box of wood and a white foam core. The wing was glassed with .75 oz glass over the complete surface.

Doug

Portlandflyer

Doug,

Congratulations...you are well on your way. I like it a lot. My guess is the purple leaking under the tape (masking film) was likely an issue of incompatibility with that particular paint. It may not have been solvent proof film.

One other thing to help stop the leaking (migrating) of color under the tape is to shoot a coat of intercoat clear over the tape edges (masking film) before you shoot the color coats.

scratchpc7

Pat,
Thanks for all of the help on this. Plan on getting a different purple to use and some of the intercoat clear as well. I have another wing all ready to go with the same white base...working on making the graphic just a bit different, All lots of fun. The weather has turned a bit here, colder and windier, which makes doing the clear coat outside and bit of a challenge.

Doug

Portlandflyer

Intercoat clear should help a lot.

MTK

Hi Pat,

the hok paint worked well enough. My base was yellow which required white under it to hide and a bunch more light coats than other paints I have used in the past. It definitely got spendy. Not sure why but in my case the paint tended to lift when pulling the masks. Not a lot of lift but rather small, annoying spots, sometimes on the surfaces edges and sometimes not.

It went over Klass Kote primer very well, flowing out very well.. The base yellow produced a very smooth surface with no splotchy appearance. It looked ready for mask colors so the first time, I didn't sand the base. That was a mistake it seems since some masked colors tended to pull the base in tiny spots and in others, the masked color came off a bit when removing the tape. Sanding the base might be the solution here.

I am just about ready for clear. What do you use to clean this paint? The wax remover attacks it. Heck even alcohol attacks it. I've found when lightly sanding prior to the clear to knock down ridges, that the paint had a tendency to ball up. I learned while wet sanding to stop every little bit to check the paper, 600 grit, for balls on the paper. I learned to control the ball build up. What's your experience?

One of its best features is the fact that it dries very fast and can be handled quickly. I was able to mask small areas in a half hour or so. Really tended to move the work along, a super feature. The clear coats are gas proof so I don't expect any issues. Weight build up was slightly less than other paint systems I've used.

would you please shed some light on the practical details of HOK painting? If you covered some of this already, what pages please?

Portlandflyer

Matt,

I don't have a clue why you are getting lifting. I never get any. One thing is I always use 3M 1/8 inch green tape on all edges and blue painters tape over it. I just can't bring myself to use regular tan masking tape as I am sure it would lift some paint as it's just too aggressive.

You definitely need a good base of white under yellow. What you are finding is the interesting part of HOK paint. You want to lay on multiple thin coats, almost dry. You don't want to lay it on heavy and wet.

The best product I have found to clean it is HOK AC100 cleaner. It's perfect as you can lay it on pretty heavy without removing paint. Most cleaners are too aggressive. I don't know what's in it, but it smells like kerosene. You would think it would leave a film, but it doesn't. It says not to use it over art work., but if you put it on light, it's fine.

http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=292&pg=2

.

MTK

I use the same masking tape in a couple widths. I also have orange plastic tape which is even lower tack than the green. The orange tape did not lift paint but the green did. I did the best I could with that. Still I had a few dozen dot repairs to make with a balsa stick. After sanding these blended fine. And after the clear, I should be the only one that knows.

Blue painters tape is what I use to block off the larger areas. Actually, since the Home Depot near me carries the 1" width and wider, I cut the tape with a straight edge into 1/4" strips. I then lay the strips onto the plastic mask making it easier to use the masking paper. The narrow strips go around curves well preserving the artwork. Even the blue tape lifted some dots of base. The dot repairs overall were manageable.

AC100 is not the stuff I used. I bought KC10 which is an organic solvent too aggressive for the regular paints. I must have missed the post on what cleaner to use. I'm sure it's fine for their epoxy and catalyzed urethane. The aerosol can of AC100 has the propellant which might be the problem.

anyway, almost there and I can feel the end point. Thanks Pat

MTK

BTW- their orange and red neon paints were very bright. Their green, less so but not bad. My eyes need all the help they can get.

I think it's a learning curve and once I figure the details out, this paint is a keeper. I resorted to regular Windex for cleaning the surfaces. It works well enough to shoot right after the cleaning and tack cloth.