Scott Smith

My Feedback: (4)

Just got some new items from Central for the YS140. The header is the new NMPDZHDR. Appears to be all aluminum with a unique mounting system. Across the top of the picture is the header, the hollow mounting bolt that screws into the exhaust port, a plug and mounting tool. Header, Teflon coupler and clamps weigh in at 75.5g A little pricey at $60, but to not have to cut an opening in the fuselage side....priceless!

The pipe is an ESD4C140S7. This one weighs a mere 65.5g! It was only $15 more than the Hatori and 100 grams lighter. I’m a little disappointed there were no mounting instructions. Does anybody have any tips on mounting a CF pipe?

Thanks,

Scott

Troy Newman

Scott,

you beat me to the punch. I have been working with Central for several months on this new DZ header. I have lots of flights on them in and the design has evolved into a very good product. The original concept has worked great from day 1 we spent lots of time changing the look, manufacture. Through Central the hours testing and work to produce such a product have really paid off. You guys are going to love it.

While it is called the DZ header it will work on any of the YS 120, 140, and 160 motors. The only exception is the 120AC because of the airbox.

I am currently doing a writeup on the system for the K-Factor along with a couple more new products.

Stay tuned for more details.

There is also a new ES pipe to go with the Header. It has the 5/8" inlet and has a Bead on the aluminum tube to attach the teflon...Finally no more stretching the teflon to fit over the pipe. This pipe also has a good amount of flight time on it and no melting or leaking issues. The new header cools the exhaust gases down and I think this helps noise and heat issues in the mufflers.

This system is super Quiet. I am running a 160DZ with the DZ Header and new DZ pipe on a 17-12APC...Turns 8600 and reads 92db(A). The sound is smooth and mellow. The same mellow noise properties apply to a 140DZ too. In fact the 140DZ gets extremely quiet.

This is the best combo I have seen on the market today...Both in price and performance. That was the goal when we set out to design this setup.

Troy Newman

Rcaerosport

Troy,

Will this setup still require a support somewhere in between the header and pipe?

And how did you mount the CF pipe?

Thanks,
Derek

Troy Newman

I am not using a brace. The same brace used on the other Central Headers will work...But I feel this new design will eliminate the header issues we have faced in the past.

I have always had really good luck with headers and I think header breakage is 99% poor mounting. For the life of me I can't understand why some guys have so much trouble and others just get away with murder.

Here is what I do:

I mount the pipe at the inlet neck where the Teflon couple attaches to the pipe. I use Dave Brown style tuned pipe mounts....just the hard plastic ones that use a tie wrap to secure the pipe. At the front pipe mount location its actually right where the spring clamp holds the Teflon to the pipe.....Its on the Teflon side. This wire tie has a piece of fuel line around it to protect the plastic tie from the heat. Then this tie is left a little loose say 3/8" total movement about3/16" each side.

Then I use a small piece of silicone coupler material sold by Aerotrend say its about 7/!6" ID on the stinger of the pipe up on the flat section right as it exits the muffler. I use the same wire tie setup here and secure it tight down on the Aerotrend tubing. This allows the pipe to rotate around its stinger. The silicone tubing is like the coupler material used on a 2 Stroke but not as heavy duty.

This Silicone protects the rear tie wrap from heat.


Its easy.....it allows rotational, and a little fore and aft movement of the pipe. This keeps from breaking the headers. The DB pipe mounts are just hard mounted to the planes belly or tunnel area. Nothing more.

Simple easy and Cheap.

The new DZ Header that Central is producing is a different design than anything currently on the market. Since the threaded bushing is separate from the Header body it allows some stress relief at this very critical connection point. A small amount of High Temp (650-700deg) silicone acts to seal the system from leaks..It just takes a small amount.

I have been running this header system since about Thanksgiving time and really we have only made changes to the cosmetics and clean it up. The concept has not failed yet in all of my flight tests and operation.

I'll post up some pictures of the pipe mount layout as I'm building a new model. I'll be doing the firewall in the next week or so.....The model has a totally open belly pan area and will lend itself to a good picture of the mounting of the header and pipe.

Troy Newman

Silver Bullet

That new header looks like it would present an awful lot of restriction to the flow of exhaust gases. Do you have any figures of comparison with the more common sweep type header? Also, is head temperature any higher?

Troy Newman

There is less restriction.

The threaded bushing that holds the header to the motor is 3/8" hex. The older style headers are 3/8" round. which is aprox the same as the exhaust port diameter in the head of the motor...

The new header only has this 3/8" dia for about 1/4" maybe 3/8" long then it immediately expands to the large collection chamber in the body of the header. This header body is 5/8" diameter and is 1.25" long. Then the 5/8" pipe takes over and there is no restriction in the header..Only the bushing that comes right out of the motor. The volume of this collection chamber is about 3X that of the old style Central Header with the longer 3/8" section.

The 3/8 pipe on the old style is about 1.25-1.5" long before it expands to 5/8" So not only are we giving it more volume but it is happening 1" closer to the motor.

Now we thought about the idea that making a 90 degree turn was not the best fluid flow engineering. SO we tested it to see if there was any change in RPM on the motor. Running the 2 headers back to back on the same setup there was NO change in RPM. BUT To the ear the sound became more mellow and less harsh. The next step is to look at heat issues. We though the new header would run cooler but not sure...SO I measured Exhaust temps both in the flow and on the surface of the header pipe and motor. There was also a fairly good Temperature drop at the exit of the header. The head temps were also cooler with the new style header.

The conclusion I made was that the oversized exhaust chamber was overcoming the 90 deg turn. Plus the fact that the DZ header is a combination of Aluminum Alloys the heat transfer is much better than steel.

Since the header is not holding the heat as like the steel headers this also shows a more efficient system. The motor can make more power since heat is the enemy. Here is where the header shows its increase in performance. Getting that heat away from the motor allowing the hot exhaust to expand and transfer heat right away to the body of the header. Then it sends the cooler gases down to the muffler system.....Header then transfers that heat it to the airflow easier than steel headers. Both because of the increase in surface area to transfer heat and the thermal properties of Aluminum vs the steel.

Result I can't say you will get any more power from the motor but I have to believe that cooler temps means the motor will operate better. I also think it may equal more power up in the air under loads. But I think that cooler temps have to help the system make more power. Look at the DZ system dumping cold fuel right in the combustion chamber....

This is very well thought out product and has been tested a bunch. You guys know that I fly, a ton, and I have flown it a ton!

rob6894

My Feedback: (3)

I just bought a plane that has the ys 140dz with this header. The engine only has the header no pipe the guy I bought this from told me that he does not use a pipe he just uses the header to get the exhaust out the side of the cowl and he gets allot of power and the engine runs quite. My question is will the engine run ok like this will this setup make my plane a slobbery mess my big concern is getting fuel oil ion the aileron servo that is on the same side has the exhaust. If it is an issue I can get a slimline pits style muffler but would like to save the $84.00 if it is not necessary.

Thanks,
Rob

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

I wouldn't run it without a pipe or muffler. Who is this guy that told you that? Have you ran the motor yet? It most certainly won't be quiet!!!! Have you ever heard a ys 140 motor that had a header break while in the air. It is very, very loud...
And yes, your plane will be a big slobbery mess behind the open header.

Hope you didn't get taken on this deal.

Chris

matrix140

Hi Troy

I finally got the YS 160 DZ yesterday and I ordered the NMPDZHDR header and the ES 160 Carbon pipe from Central a few weeks ago. The only problem I am having is that if you follow the instructions and put 1 copper washer on the inside of the threaded bushing and one on the outside (between the engine and header) the threaded coupler bottoms out in the exhaust port thread before the header is tight. The only way I can see to make this work is to use the 3rd copper washer and put 2 inside the header to remove some thread depth. Is this what you found??

Thanks
Jonathan

Eric.Henderson

You might like these mufflers from YS.

[link=http://www.pspec.com/html/4strokemufflers.html]http://www.pspec.com/html/4strokemufflers.html[/link]

Eric.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Matrix, this is a pretty old thread. You may want to pm Troy....

rgreen24

My Feedback: (6)

Hey Jonathon if you are the YS header from Central, you do not need to copper washer. You need some BR 101 from permatex, to get a nice bond between the header and and the exhaust port. My .02 cents

rob6894

My Feedback: (3)

I have not had a chance to fire the engine up yet. The guy I bought it from seems like a good guy and jugging from peoples past experiences with him I don't think he would try and rip me off at least I sure hope not. Jugging from all the pictures he sent me and some of his old posts it looks like he has only been using just the header like he said. With him just running the engine with just the header on would it do any damage to the engine? I sure don't want to be very loud and even worse have a very messy plane so I will probably pick up the Pitts muffler for this plane. I am also very confused on what fuel to use I would like to use a fuel that I can use with my saito .72 and 1.80.

Best,
Rob

Troy Newman

Matrix,
a second copper washer on the inside of the header will work just fine. I have not had this problem or heard of it.

I have a new header on order now. Should arrive tomorrow I hope. Most of mine were all old headers without the washers. I do have one of the new ones like you have but it was a prototype. It has a couple hundred flights since the NATS last year. But it is using the older bushing nut.

I did recommend to Central to make the Bushing nut a little longer to have better thread contact when using the washers....Maybe it got a little too long.I do know that Yamada doesn't have a spec for how deep the threads go in the exhaust port. Some are a little deeper than others. We saw this with Hatori Headers as well. An extra washer will not affect anything performance wise. If you need an extra one (I think the headers come with 3)...Central has them.

Robert,

The newer versions of this header now have been designed around an internal copper washer that goes on the bushing before it goes inside the header...and then another washer same size and thickness and the internal one goes between the head of the motor and the header. This eliminates the need for the silicone sealer.

For those of you with the older style header the copper washer will work the same on the outside of the header between the header and the cylinder header of the motor. Most of my headers in Service are the older style or even prototype versions that are using the copper washer between header and head.

It works great. I have not heard of anybody having it come loose with the washers installed. The idea is the copper will compress a little then when heated the copper will expand faster than the aluminum so the seal is maintained and it stays tight. Works just like the Hatori headers with the copper washers...Only this time the washer mates the exhaust port flange to the header instead of being down inside the exhaust port.

Let me know if you have trouble with it. I think its the best setup I have ever run. I spent a ton of time with Central testing prototypes and making small changes to get this right. I have been running it since about October of 2003...This is one product that I stand behind 100% it works very well, and is probably the lightest and most robust header on the market today.

Troy

MarkNovack

My Feedback: (3)

Coolpower 30% Heli is my first pick. Then 25%, then 20%, then pro-pattern 20%. Your Saitos will enjoy any of these mixes. Your DZ will be happy. Morgans will be happy. Your hobby dealer will be happy. You will be happy (unless you are poor like me...LOL...F3A and MDS...just kidding)!!!

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Hey Troy, Krishlan here.

I am having a little trouble keeping mine tight. I don't know if you remember, but you traded me for my header that ripped out of my L in Hollister at the contest. You said this one was a prototype and were gracious enough, as always, to give it to me (provided I put in a good word for ya at central, which I did through email). I have tightened it a few times since. Should I add any type of sealant maybe to the threads? Maybe just a tiny, tiny bit? It's not really a problem to tighten it, but I notice it leaking a little exaust fuel sometimes..

Thanks, C ya at BARCS if your gonna be there.

Kris

Troy Newman

Kris,

Did we put the copper washer on it?

If not let me know. I'll make sure you get one.

Another thing I have found with guys having trouble...Run the motor and get it hot...Then take the cover plate off and tighten the header while the motor is still hot. This works also with the copper washer too. If you are having trouble then heat the motor up and tighten it then it will stay tight.

If its coming loose and you don't have a washer on it...this is the solution.


I don't think I'll be up at BARCS....its like 900+ miles to drive. But I do plan to attend Hollister probably the fall one....not sure on the spring contest.

We'll get you taken care of.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Yeah, I understand that drive Troy. That is a long way... You should just move to California. You fit here. lol
Anyway, I did tighten it once when it was warm, and yes we did do the copper washer trick. It only comes loose enough to leak fuel past the washer. Not really loose like where the header moves. Maybe I'll check the washer for a scratch or debris. I dunno, I think I may let the Ariel rest this year. I might fly the Zen that I inherited from Jevan. I've been flying it lately and it fly's so good. Makes me look like a different pilot.

Thanks again for your help.

Krishlan

Troy Newman

Another thing to look at...Is the exhaust flange flat...Sometimes there is a small mold nub or a line across it. If its not flat this could be the cause.

Jevan's plane will do you well. He had it setup right and ready to rock.

Good luck with it.

As for California......Man Jenny and I loved living up in San Jose. Who knows we may end up in San Bernadino next month. Her contract is up in Mesa, and we may have to move the end of March.

rob6894

My Feedback: (3)

Could someone tell me how to remove the nmp header. I just don't want to strip anything.

Best,
Rob

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

If you are worried about stripping something, run your engine first to warm it up. Then remove the little screw, be careful, the header will be hot obviously. Then remove the outside and inside screws.. It's not so difficult. If it is, then I think the screws were put in too tight... I don't think with such big allen heads that you will strip them... I dunno, I haven't seen it. Maybe Troy has..

Good luck,


Krishlan

rob6894

My Feedback: (3)

it looks like it is only one very big allen head. Is this Right? Do just get an allen head this size and un screw it?

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

There should be a real small philips screw that acts as a locknut for the outside large allen screw.. Remove that first. Then there are actually two large allen screws. One that you see on the outside that is the cover screw and one inside that secures the header to the engine. They are both the same size. And yes, just get an allen wrench that size... They are regular threads.
Good luck,

Kris

dflynt

My Feedback: (48)

Wow, more headers and mufflers at Central Hobbies! I was browsing Central Hobbies today, and they added a full lineup of Hatori Headers along with the new short aluminum Mufflers for YS four strokes 63 - 160.

These new products look great, and I like the way they eliminated coupler and clamps.

David