8178

My Feedback: (17)

In the olded days we used Freon 12 for our Rom-air retracts (we didn’t realize it would cause the 2004 hurricanes in Florida), has anyone tried Freon 134 for their retract systems.

cltom

Special oils must be used with R-134a in A/C equipment, or compressor damage will result. I don't know if that will affect retract actuators, though.

tggilkey

The last several 60 size pattern planes I built used Spring Air retracts and just used plain old air and a hand pump. That seemed to work well -- the gear went up and down, had no maintenance to speak of, no replacement of supplies, and the medium used was free (except for some elbow grease). Have you tried air?

mwoytassek

If the retracts are old you may need to add a couple of drops of refrigerant oil. Donot use other oil it will swell the o rings in the gear and the value.
I used the air pump for many years

Mark

8178

My Feedback: (17)

I have an air pump as well. I just recall that the Freon worked well and would last all day with one charge.

Magne

Although R-134a is a good bit better than the old R-12, it is still nasty stuff for the environment and should be treated as such.
(CO2 equivalent of R-12 is 8500, while R-134a is "only" 1300.)
At first I thought you were actually kidding???
Magne

cltom

Those are Trane Air Conditioning lies, because their refrigerant (R-123) still depletes ozone. The only knock against R-134a is that it results in slightly decreased efficiency. Through some convoluted logic, one can postulate that adds to the "Greenhouse Effect" because more energy must be produced at power plants to cover that reduced efficiency, thereby resulting in a poorer environment. A huge stretch, at best.

R-134a has no direct effect on pollution. It's so safe for breathing, it's used for propellent in asthma inhalers.

Magne

Those are Trane Air Conditioning lies, because their refrigerant (R-123) still depletes ozone.

Hi.
I am in this for the fun of it, and do not in any way intend to start a war.
However, you are quite right that R-123 depletes the ozone layer, it has an ozone depletion factor of 0.02, while the CO2 equivalent is 93.
This against the CO2 equivalent of 1300 for R-134a.
However, what has R-123 got to do with this, it was never mentioned by anybody, and who are "they"??
Be happy.
Magne

cltom

Sorry - my language is probably too extreme for a friendly forum, but I'm in the business. Trane's lobby is so strong with the EPA that it got "CO2 Equivalence" on the same level of polictically-correct-speak Ozone Depleting Factors or health TEL's. Ridiculous.

CO2 equivalence is what I explained in the post above - simply a convoluted estimate intended to represent how much effect the lower efficiency has on increasing the "greenhouse effect." In other words, R-134a is supposedly less efficent, so it takes more energy to run a refrigeration cycle. More energy can be traced back to the power generating plant as more CO2 produced - because more power has to be produced.

CO2 Equivalence is nothing more than a contrived efficiency factor. However, that efficiency factor (CO2 Equivalence) is all based on the prevailing equipment design - which is optimized for the older refrigerants. That efficiency is improving as mfrs. are optimizing their equipment. But it's all a game to give Trane time to transition to another refrigerant instead of R-123, which will phase out eventually - the same as R-12. Trane has based their low-pressure refrigerant equipment (big stuff) on R-123, which is an R-11 replacement. However, R-134a is used by other companies (Carrier, York) in all equipment - even the big stuff, hence the competitve "blurring of the facts" about certain refrigerants. R-123 has demonstrated health issues in addition to still depleting ozone.

As far as our hobby, the CO2 Equivalence of R-134a means absolutely nothing in the context of using it as a pneumatic actuating fluid (retracts). Since it does not adversely affect personal health, and carries 0% ozone depleting potential, it's perfectly safe.

dang_it

WAIT!!!! Doesn't CO2 sustain plant growth???

All you guys in the desert could ruin the ecosystem with that stuff!!

Dang_it!![>:]

Magne

Thank you, cltom, for the clarification.
Regards,
Magne

rurye

My Feedback: (16)

wow you guys need to come here to Taiwan where you see the air you breath, and they have like a gazillion Scooters all pumping out polution, then ya burn fake money so dead people can pay thier way, and of course you burn the rice fields off. but you can pump air into retracts, It might not have too much dirt to work .if you can find a place big enough to fly without hitting a building.
but freon is cheap!!!!

dentdoc

My Feedback: (3)

Maybe a solution for charging the retract system is a product called "Green Gas". It is used to power Gas Blow Back BB pistols. The gas used is Propane with Silicon added for lubrication of seals & moving parts: http://www.precisionairsoft.net/GBB-...ly-p/gas01.htm