Rebellion

My Feedback: (2)

You guys are making me wonder if I bought the right engine ( YS 110). I've never ran a YS before.

For those of you that are using the stock engine mount and control horns, how are they holding up?

gabrielg74

My Feedback: (2)

YS engines are great.

The stock engine mount is a little soft (IMHO) for the YS, but otherwise works just fine (I have a Saito 100, a friend a YS91 and another friend had a YS120 in the Excellerons).

The control horns on my plane have worked great so far after many many flights, but the ones in my friends plane have been breaking since the beginning, so far 2 broken and 1 cracked (all in the elevator). When he was assembling his plane I noted the base of his horns was a lot flimsier(sp?) than mine, you can easily bend the plastic holding the screw with a finger with little effort (as opposed top mine). But I don't know how prevalent this problem is.
What I would suggest is to do whatever makes you feel secure, if they look flimsy to you, change them, why risk the plane?

Best regards,

Gabriel

Rebellion

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks! Think I'll change out the horns just to be safe. You're right, why risk a plane just to save a few bucks. Might as well use the DB mount too.

wildnloose

gabrielg74,

I'm curious about your friends Excelleron/ys 120 combo (in particular how it flies with th increased wing loading). I am seriously considering putting a ys140 in this bird.

Do you think your friend could chime in here and give us a quick flight report???

gabrielg74

My Feedback: (2)

The Excelleron with the YS120 was too much (IMO), my friend had to move the servos to the tail to balance it. Sadly it is no more, it suffered a sudden unplanned hard (too hard) landing and a debris picking crew was called to clean up the mess. I got to fly it a few times and I didn't like it very much, it felt heavy, specially when compared to mine with the Saito100. It was very powerful, but for pattern style flying I had to really struggle to make it look smooth, throttle management was too critical. Also landing was kind of difficult (again compared with the lighter one) as you often had to kill the engine to force it down or land it hot. With mine, I just line it up, cut throttle to idle and let go the sticks until it's time to flare, anyone who flies it can put it on the ground on 3 points without any trouble.
Now, the Saito100 is lacking, specially at 4000ft. It is barely enough for Sportsman at this altitude, but last contest I attended was at 4500ft and could not make any tall intermediate maneuvers and my box was severely crippled and climbing was agony.
The YS91 is a bit better than the Saito, but I believe the YS110 would be perfect, unless you intend to do 3D, then go with the larger engines.
But for pattern or sport flying a YS140 in this airframe would be nuts (again IMHO).

My friend that lost the Excelleron now has a Venus II with a YS91 and he is really happy with it, specially since Troy Newman trimmed it, but he will change the engine to the YS110 as recommended by Troy.

Gabriel

wildnloose

Thanks for the report.

I want to expand the flight envelop of this bird but I'm thinking that it would not be worth the 6 oz. penalty. I think it may be difficult to get it trimmed out for both pattern and 3d flying. Plus its too much work.

Maybe this winter but for now I'll keep the ys110....

see_e_oh

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks Eddie. I've got the instructions and I'll give 'em a try tomorrow. I plan to start early before it gets hot, and just take some time with the process.

I agree about being too rich at Low Speed. There was far more smoke at low and mid throttle, then there was at full throttle.

I'll change out the spark plug as well, just to be certain.

Steve

Texas_Flyer

My Feedback: (15)

I see this thread has been in hibernation for about 5 months... Hopefully some of you Excelleron 90 owners are still out there...

After much research, I have purchased an Excelleron 90 for my first pattern plane based on the great reports I've seen. I also have a friend at our field that flies the E-90 and it flies beautifully! I just bought one of the last models available online, so I may be one of the last to every build one of these...

I am trying to decide between the YS 110 and the Saito 125.
- The YS Pros: It allows me to move the fuel tank back if necessary which, though I don't need to do it on this plane, is a nice option to have. There's also lots of data on mounting the YS 110 in this plane.
- The YS Cons: I have heard some complaints that the YS's can be more difficult to tune and I'm pretty new to fuel planes - simpler is better for me. I hear that the YS engines shake more than others which could lead to more loose screws or rattles over time...
- Saito 125 Pros: I have a Saito 91 and it has been the perfect "crank it and run" engine with no issues. Saito has a great reputation for this. Because they are similar engines, my learning curve will be minimal. I don't know, but rumor is that the Saito 125 has a little more power than the YS. It is also about 3 oz lighter when comparing with stock mufflers.
- Saito 125 Cons: Not many have used this in the Excelleron 90.

Costs seem to be about the same. Any feedback? I'm leaning towards the Saito...

Tommy S, how's yours holding up? Did you have to make any special mods to use the Saito 125 other than move your throttle control to the other side?

Thanks,

Alan

Jon B

My Feedback: (2)

abuckner,

Is the Excelleron 90 you got new or used? If it's new where did you find it? Hobby People has the Excelleron 50 listed but no 90.

Thanks, JB

Arthur_GA

My Feedback: (3)

I used a Saito 125 on my Ex 90 without a glitch ever.

mikedsilva

hi

i have the saito125 in my E90.
I love it!

great motor for this plane... it needs the light weight motor to get the balance point back as far as possible to get a neutral flying plane.

only thing is, my saito spits out tons of oil through the breather pipe and it shakes like a *******!

i am using the recommended Dave brown soft mounts, but it has not made a difference.

my stabiliser broke free (not enough glue in the joint!) but the plane landed safely... then i noticed that one of the control horns on the elevator had cracked... not sure which one went first actually.

Bought some new horns from precision aerobatics, but havent installed them yet... that was a few months ago.. i am lazy and its too hot to fly!

let me know how yours turns out and what motor you choose.. the Saito is simple perfection. You wont regret it.

mike

swlarcham

My Feedback: (1)

Alan
Eddie Batchelor here -we met at your contest at Sparks, I called for rwlewis's dad.
I flew the Explorer(excelleron) year before last with a YS110. This was before the Saito 125 was available.
Althought I really liked the Ys on mine, If I was doing one now, after hearing Tommy S's report on the Saito 125, I would put a Saito on it.
My Explorer was very nose heavy and the lighter engine would be a benefit. I think I had 6 or 7 ounces on the tail of mine and it needed more and that was with the tank on the CG.

If you don't mind some unsolicited advise :
-Start at the recomended CG but DO NOT use their recomended control throws. 10-12mm on elevator and aileron and 20-25m on rudder then fine tune from there. Too much rudder throw and it'l drop the nose with yaw.
- reenforce the landing gear area and wrap the wing joint with fiberglass.
- check all glue joints ( general ARF advise)
- I used the metal hinges and did not have any issues - other have replaced them , your call
- I didn't use any of the stock control horns but I did use the stock engine mount and it held up for 3 years, athough I've read of the isolators breaking down. I purchased replacement isolators at the LHS in your area but didn't use them.

I can't think of anything else at this time. Let me know if I can be of any help. I still have my old one and 1 never built so you;re probably not gonna be the last guy assembling one. But my next one will be E powered.

Eddie
LARKS
DeQuincy,La

see_e_oh

My Feedback: (4)

My E-90 is my favorite plane, by far. I'm running a well broken in YS110, about 200 flights on this airframe and about 150 on a previous plane. I think the all in weight is abount 8.5lbs.

I fly near sea level and the YS110 has incredible power. I've run Coolpower 30% Heli fuel, but the extra "umph" isn't necessary. I'm running an APC 16x6 prop at 8,900 rpm (about 200 rich of peak) on Powermaster YS 20/20.

I replaced the stock LG with the Bolly carbon fiber FAI as suggested in this thread and that gave me all the clearance I needed for the bigger prop. I also built it with the HD Dubro hinges and larger control arms to achieve good alignment of the pivot points directly over the hinge lines.

This is my first pattern style plane, and I've flown it hard. I've had to patch the wings a couple of times, and remount the LG plate after a couple of hard landings.

Bottom line, this is a Killer plane/engine combo.

wildnloose

I would not let weight be the deciding factor on my engine choice. I did not believe the advertised weights so I measured them myself at my lhs. The Saito 125 weighs 1oz lighter than the ys110 (measured on a postal scale)...

Personally I think the Saitos are real close in power but are still less than ys. I can only go by what I see, the ys110s' are flown with 30% heli fuel and the Saitos are flown with 15% fuel. On the same plane/prop, with similar run times the Saitos seem to require around 1/4 more throttle for the same maneuver. If you up the nitro in the Saito I bet it will be close.

My engine choice would be based on whether or not I wanted a pumped engine. I will not put a pump on a Saito, have yet to see one run reliable/consistent for any length of time.

Texas_Flyer

My Feedback: (15)

Jon: I got the last unit I could find from an online store. It was from GravesRC.com. There is one for $200 NIB (price just reduced) here on rcuniverse: http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=246490 I also read that HP (Hobby People?) recently had 17 in stock at various locations, but appearantly not available online. You may need to PM Mike Ruth. See post #25: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...anchor/tm.htm#

Eddie: Small world, isn't it. I guess it would be difficult to forget the only pattern contestant with a high-wing stick plane!! That's why I'm mov'n up to a legitimate pattern plane.

All: Thanks for all your responses! It appears that either way I go, I'm going to be happy. It seems that with cost, power, and weight all being roughly equal, the flexibility of being able to move the fuel tank over the CG (I've heard this is more important on other pattern-type planes) puts the YS 110 with a little edge. I just hope it doesn't end up being too tempermental.

Anyone have a used (but great condition) YS110 or Saito 125 they'd like to sell?

Thanks again, everyone!

Alan

Roary m

My Feedback: (67)

I run the OS 120 ax job in mine with the stock muffler; great matchup.

F-4

Alan,

I am also using an OS 120 AX with stock muffler in my Excelleron. No mods for a tuned pipe! It's a good combo, plenty of power, easy starting, very relable running and cheap fuel. Not much clearance to swing a 15" or 16" prop. Had to change out tail wheel, which I considered weak, for a Sullivan that stood a little higher. Will remove part of lower fin and mount tail wheel to fuse or try 3 blade prop or both. Plane does fine as is, just not much room for error and "stance" should be a little more nose high. I used the supplied mount and set up parallel with the rails. Too much offset. Very difficult to manipulate the mount to reduce the offset. Will plug and redrill for 2007 or change to firewall soft mount. Don't really want the hassle of removing the rails though. But, I could then get the exhaust on the bottom by side mounting and make getting to the glow plug a little easier. Might even reduce the amount of weight in wing tip. Was concerned with rail thickness for the 120, so added one-eight ply (not the light stuff). Blind nuts keep pulling into the ply/rails. Will change to inserts if stay with rails. Reinforced the gear right away. No problems after 50 flights. Did not use the metal hinges supplied. Was taught long ago to avoid metal-to-metal contact. However, never heard of a problem with thi s plane. Used CA hinges and found 2 in one side of elevator completely severed when inspecting before last fly session. Don't know why they failed like this, but will replace with HD Du Bro. As pointed out in article by Dick Papas, supplied control horns do not line up with hinge lines. Arms are too short. I will be changing those out also. Did not expect to carry on like this. If any one has a comment for me, would like to hear.

John D.

mikedsilva

what sort of control horns are you going to use and where did you get them?
Please post a photo when you change the horns..
thanks
Mike

Texas_Flyer

My Feedback: (15)

I'm selecting servos and the instructions say minimum 65 oz/in torque for the control surfaces. When I look at what everyone in this thread has used, it seems that almost everyone is using servos that exceed this by double if not quadruple. Not knowing any better, it seems like HS-5625MG digital servos with 110 oz/in and .17 sec (w/ 4.8V) would be more than sufficient for all surfaces since they exceed the minimum specs by 70%. The price difference is also substantial.... Am I missing something or would this work fine?

By the way, I plan to use this plane exclusively for pattern flying, so throws will be minimal (ie, less torque needs than 3D?) and I'll use the entire servo movement for maximum precision.

Walfam

My Feedback: (1)

hi

I have two excelleron 90's and with a YS110 it was good, but them I put in an os120AX and it was very very good. Perfect engine for
that plane, you fly on 1/3 throttle and can do all you need.

HOWEVER, you need to watch out for two things, ONE - change out the landing gear to a bolly gear to get good cleanance for you prop and SECOND reinvorce the landing gear at the base, put the triangle stock in there to give it full support.

otherwise, the plane flys well

mikedsilva

Does anyone have some extra control horns as used on the elevators for this plane?
one of mine broke (not sure why) and i need a replacement. If you have a paypal account i can deposit funds that way i guess...

Also, what sort of Bolly gear did you end up using? is there a model code that i can use to try and source the same gear here in Aus?

cheers
mike

wildnloose

I use the Chip Hyde control horns, they fit really well on the elevator (not to mention the extra bling factor). I see that Central hobbies only has the gold ones in stock.

www.precisionaerocomposite.com 662.286.5666/615.316.7702
Bolly F3A standard landing gear #BOLFAIS
Bolly CF wheel pants #BOLWPCF
Bolly glass wheel pants #BOLWPG

F-4

Mike,

The control horns I mentioned are Du-Bro item no. 867. Available from most US supply houses. In middle of re-hinging so no photo available at this time.

John D.

F-4

Really glad to see activity on the Excelleron thread. I built and flew my Excelleron this past summer and used a lot of the previously posted info. However, all was not correct. Probably a lesson there. I would recommend that anyone not experienced in building and trimming a Pattern plane get the Excelleron review written by Dean (it is Dean) Pappas and published in the Sep 2005 issue of MODEL AVIATION. I did not see the article until recently and intend to follow many of his recomendations to prepare the plane for next year. These are some of his recomendations: Dean used Futaba S9202 servos. Quite by accident, that is what I used in mine. They are not digital but as he says were once frontline Pattern equipment. Mine worked great. He used a Futaba S3004 on the throttle. He subsituted Du-Bro Heavy Duty Hinges (item 257) for the metal ones provided. He mounted the cowl with 4-40 screws and blind nuts. Dean found that for Pattern flying, the aircraft trimmed with the CG 7.25 inches behind the LE at the root. He subsituted the 3/4 inch control horn linkage from a Du-Bro control horn package, item 867. A picture of this is in the article. (I broke a control horn when the wind caught the wing. To the best of my knowledge, horns are not available separately. I am in the process of changing all control horns to the Du-Bro's.) Additional trim adjustments included inserting a 1/16-inch shim at the wing trailing edge and one degree of downthrust.

I recommend getting this article if you have an Excelleron, there is a lot more info in it. Also Dean has written very good articles on trimming aircraft in MODEL AVIATION and currently in FLYING MODELS. Hope some of this helps.

John D.

see_e_oh

My Feedback: (4)

I've got a scanned in PDF of the Pappas article for anyone interested.

PM me with your email address.