Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

I am a JR fan and I have had a few of their radios. I have always liked their products untill I started going brushless. Between myself and several other JR owners I have met in the RCU forums, I have learned that JR radio's don't program easily with all brushless systems. Anyway back to the story. I was having trouble getting my New Mamba Max to arm with my JR XS3 75mhz. I sent an email to both Horizon whome I guess represents JR and to Castle Creations. Castle was very helpful and tried to help. But Horizon fell short of the stick. Instead of trying to help they only tried to blame it on Castle Creations. Here is a copy of the email I received.

Gerald,
Thank you for your recent email. You may want to contact Castle Creations. We have not heard of any problems using the XS3 with the Mamba system.

Randy

Horizon Hobby Product Support
4105 Fieldstone Rd
Champaign , Il. 61822
1-877-504-0233

Boy, how helpful that was. Thanks alot Randy. If I wasn't so poor, I would sell my JR radio and all the receivers and get another brand that has better support.
Here is something interesting. Anytime I have had trouble getting my XS3 to program with the esc, for trial and error, I would hook the crap stock AM radio back up and it would arm instantly. It seems that my XS3 likes to have negative or low throttle trim to get a brushless esc to arm.

But the main point is that The above message from Horizon was uncalled for. They could have at least tried to help istead of passing the buck. You may want to take this into consideration when buying something from Horizon.
I know many of you may have had good results with their support. But this is one example of when they just got lazy.

ira d

Seems to me if the JR radios work with their own equipment they have
done their job. I dont think it is reasonable for a company to know
about every possible combination of equipment on the market.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

I agree, why would they help with a Castle product. At least they told you who to call. I don't call H-9 to ask about a DA question. Dennis

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

Tell me this then, grasshopper,
Why is it that a cheap AM radio will arm the esc immediately with no trim adjustments and so does other brands like HiTec but the JR is about the only one that needs special trimming. Sounds like a radio problem not an esc problem to me. Its the same crap with computers and computer peripherals. The pc vendors want to blame the peripheral company and the peripheral company wants to blame the pc or Microsoft.

Besides all of that he could of at least gave it a shot.

AERORICH73

Welcome to the Horizon club. When I had a carb problem with my Supertiger Sportster .45 engine, they made me think it was still under warranty. After receiving the engine, they just looked at the carb parts, and reported it looked ok. When I asked them if they had run the engine, I was told that it would cost me $30.- an hour shop labor rate. Told them to keep it for a paperweight. Later I received the engine back with a nasty note saying I was trying to cheat them with an out of warranty engine even though all my e-mails had identified that the engine had been stored for over two years before installing it on a test stand.

In your situation, radios are not cheap to replace when a control problem develops. My flight instructor had a poor solder connection Futaba radio tx pc board when flying his Cap 232 causing it to nose dive into the club field destroying the plane, and serious damage to his Saito engine. All Futaba would do was fix the radio. I switched to Hitec at that point since 4 channel radios were priced a lot lower than what the computer radios go for in todays market place.

Hope you can find the fix for the glitch problem without a serious financial cost.

[email protected]

A.T.

Wheelnut, time to ease up and re-consider. Horizon's answer is quite correct. JR produce good equipment which works exactly as intended with their own products. If any other manufacturer wants to provide an after market accessory and piggyback on another system or eat into any other companies profits, then the entire matter of resolving any conflict lies solely with the aftermarket provider. This has been the case with all other products and manufacturers, not just Horizon & JR.
FWIW you may gain some valuable knowledge by referring to ESC - How to Set up for First Time with pictures by Tony Ohm of Hitec USA. Many ESC will not arm unless the throttle trim on a computerised TX is lowered to say 15 -20 or EPA adjusted as per Tony's article because, in simple terms, the maximum servo travel displayed on a computer TX is about 80% of that of a non computerised TX to provide more trim and sub trim adjustments. Since an ESC wants to see the low setting (~.5ms) at low throttle you usually have to lower the down trim to get there .
Much more information under "Electronic Speed Control (ESC) and DIY ESC Circuits " and "Radio Systems, Accessories, Alterations and FAQ" on my web page.
Regards
Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

Castle creations don't create after market products no more than JR does.
One could say that JR is creating an after market product to fit the Mamba esc

Thanks AERORICH I knew I was not the only one who had a bad experience. I bet there are lots more. Anytime a company gets that big, you know the rest

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

I don't know where you purchased the radio, but if you purchased it from the local hobby shop they should be able to help you both with your problem and in dealing with Horizon.

One of the reasons to buy from the LHS in the first place.

ira d

Castle does not make complete radio systems like JR does, Castles sucess depends
on their products being compatible with the radio systems that are available in the
market they sell their products in.

They should constantly test the systems out in the market and have a web site and
hot line to notify customers of compatibly issues.

airbusdrvr

Just Like "A.T." above mentioned, ease up and learn how to set up your system. You wouldn't expect to plug in your servos, receiver, battery, etc. on a glow/gas plane and expect everything to work without some setup. The same is true for the electrics. Each ESC has it's setup procedure. Some of the Castle ESCs(Phoenix, etc.) can be programed on your computer.

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

airbusdrvr, ira d, you guys sound like corporate broken records, robots. You have been beaten down by the corporate way of thinking.

All I did was ask a simple question and I was amazed at the dry blunt answer that I got. I stick by my original statement. The response I got SUCKED!! Period, end of story.

BTW, thanks for all the extra publicity you are giving me for this thread by keeping it at the top.

PLANE JIM

My Feedback: (109)

I have recieved nothing but great service from horizon, Good Luck

bpannier

You asked a simple question and got a simple answer. All my contact with Horizon has been great for over 20 years.

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

So you asked a question, didn't like the answer you got, so now they're a bunch of losers? I for one have always been happy with Horizons services and products.

"I stick by my original statement. The response I got SUCKED!! Period, end of story."

So why did you feel the need to continue the story here?

The response you got wasn't the one you were looking for. From exactly ONE question you condem the entire support services. BTW what did Castle Creations tell you?

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

If you can't do anything but point someone in the other direction, then you don't belong in tech support.

Why is it that only the JR radio owners were having problems with getting their esc to arm. All the other guys said their esc's armed fine. Like Futaba and Hitec owners.

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

"If you can't do anything but point someone in the other direction, then you don't belong in tech support."

Too funny.

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

"Be awesome or don't be at all"!


This goes for all tech support people

mocars2

I've always have had great service from horizon, also. But what were you expecting? You know companies by now - they have either tech in foreign counties maning the phones. You really didn't think he'd tell you - OK 1st do this, then do this..... OPPS - I forgot you didn't even call you just sent an email - call next time and see what happens

Spoiler

I agree. Why could he not have given you the tips that A. T. did? That would have been real tech support, surely?

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

Thanks Spoiler, Yes he could have at least given me a couple of ideas that he thought the problem might be. Obviously the problem was with the radio since it was the one that needed some adjustments. But I could tell from his answer that he had no interest in the problem at all and is very used to the idea of pointing the customer in some other direction.

It has become the American way to pass the buck. Where do you think the phrase came from. It comes from lazy *****es who don't want to try and help anyone out.
Passing the buck is the first sign of hating your job. Go get another one.

eajohnson

My Feedback: (1)

I have to agree, support has been less than stellar to say the least when it comes to my X9303. Front line staff didn't offer any helpful advice, they said minimum service turnaround is 8 business days plus you have to pay extra for fast return shipping (made worse by their being no way to pay for expedited service or putting a credit card down against an exchange), no trouble ticket tracking system so you can't give them updated information on a problem (no problem report exists to associate the data with), support gave a trite answer to my concern about a lack of printed manuals (saying print it out from pdf) which completely misses the point that something you print out at home lacks a decent-wearing binding and cover that is an absolute necessity for a field-use document. I'm very unhappy with them right now, I'm >$2000 out of pocket on a new 2.4Ghz radio system from them that doesn't work right and they can't offer any useful and timely assistance. Timely is key as I have only a few weeks left in the flying season and if I can't fly in that window, I might as well have held on to my $2000 until next spring. Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed with them.

I'm used to much more rigor in the quality and issue tracking area (work for an ISO-9000 certified company, personal background spans engineering, quality management, publication management, training management, project management). From what I can see Horizon is about 20 years behind the times.

- Eric

[Edited wording in a couple sentences that were overly general; originally said front line staff don't offer any helpful advice, but what is more accurate is that over multiple contacts they did not offer any helpful advice in my case; it wasn't right for me to generalize that this would always be true]

MasterX

My Feedback: (6)

Eric, I have to say that I know what you are talking about. I have been trying to get the new radio for a while now and keep getting new dates each week. How does a company not know when they are going to receive product.

Anyway,, Get ready for all the Horizon lovers on here. Your post might be deleted or this thread might get locked. I guess that is what we get for adding our comments to a public forum that is controled by horizons people.

Nice.

Later.

onewasp

No, Futaba has been accused of that but JR/Spektrum only when their help site is turned into Public Forum.
Neither you nor Eric have apparently been in the manufacturing business or the importing business --- at least for very long.
Always has been that way, always will be ------ the ONLY answer is not to predict (always based upon assumptions of the future by definition)

It isn't a simple problem!
Think DOD weapons systems, Boeing's 780, and the Airbus 380-----the list is endless and so are the industries involved.
BTDT

Many, many on these sites have run, or owned, or managed, or directed Corps. , or military units large and small.
We simply enjoy the hobby too---------BUT we are aware of the things which happen in the overall Mfg. and supply process.

Perhaps you think you may find "Dorothy on the yellow brick road"-- but us mere mortals have been unable to find her or the unfailing answer to this question.

It's life!

eajohnson

My Feedback: (1)

I imagine they're used to getting flack from disgruntled customers now and again, and I tried to make it clear that I'm disgruntled right now so other readers will see that is where I'm coming from :-). Hopefully they'll take it as constructive criticism becuase all my complaints are ones they can act on to improve their service, if they choose to do so.

- Eric

MasterX

My Feedback: (6)

I love guys that come on here and say this or that. Even when they have no idea what they are talking about. All I said that it is hard for me to believe that Horizon does not know what is going on with these Radios. Not sure what I might have said for onewasp to attack my knowledge. I find that very funny... LOL..

I just want my Radio.. I do not want to listen to I am sorry.. we have to push the date out another 2 weeks. That is BS>

Thanks again.