VK Nieuport 17
10-07-2011, 03:51 PM
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RE: VK Nieuport 17
Steve,
Yes, the aileron torque rods will connect directly to the servos. I originally installed the bellcranks but found there was too much lost motion. The engine is a Williams Bros 80 HPLeRhone modified to a LeRhone 9J by installing the pushrods and intake tubes behind the cylinders. The hard part was heating and bending the tubes for correct alignment. It's not perfect but they are partially hidden.
Dennis
Yes, the aileron torque rods will connect directly to the servos. I originally installed the bellcranks but found there was too much lost motion. The engine is a Williams Bros 80 HPLeRhone modified to a LeRhone 9J by installing the pushrods and intake tubes behind the cylinders. The hard part was heating and bending the tubes for correct alignment. It's not perfect but they are partially hidden.
Dennis
ORIGINAL: StephenSP98
Dennis,
Looks great! I'm working on converting a partially built VK N-17 to electric. A couple of questions:
- Are you connecting the aileron torque rods directly to the servos? Mine came with the rods connected to a90 degree bellcrank, but with your cheek arrangement they could probably be elliminated.
- Is the radial engine scratch built or did you use a kit such as the Williams Bros.? Either waywell done...
Steve
Dennis,
Looks great! I'm working on converting a partially built VK N-17 to electric. A couple of questions:
- Are you connecting the aileron torque rods directly to the servos? Mine came with the rods connected to a90 degree bellcrank, but with your cheek arrangement they could probably be elliminated.
- Is the radial engine scratch built or did you use a kit such as the Williams Bros.? Either waywell done...
Steve
10-07-2011, 04:20 PM
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RE: VK Nieuport 17
Thanks Jim,
I was a bit concerned about fraying so I countersunk and polished the holes in the threaded rods. This also makes it a lot easier to thread the kevlar through them. I secured them with fisherman's knots and a dab of CA then covered with heat shrink. At least with the critical flight control (the elevator), there is redundancy of two sets of cables. If one breaks, the other set should still provide control. I'm not as worried about the rudder, which I tend to under-use anyway.
Incidently, since posting the photos I've re-routed the elevator cables so that they enter the fuselage and leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer in a more scale manner. This was accomplished by installing a set of miniature pullies in the aft fuselage area.
Dennis
I was a bit concerned about fraying so I countersunk and polished the holes in the threaded rods. This also makes it a lot easier to thread the kevlar through them. I secured them with fisherman's knots and a dab of CA then covered with heat shrink. At least with the critical flight control (the elevator), there is redundancy of two sets of cables. If one breaks, the other set should still provide control. I'm not as worried about the rudder, which I tend to under-use anyway.
Incidently, since posting the photos I've re-routed the elevator cables so that they enter the fuselage and leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer in a more scale manner. This was accomplished by installing a set of miniature pullies in the aft fuselage area.
Dennis
ORIGINAL: buzzard bait
Dennis, how did you secure the Kevlar thread to the metal threaded rod bits that the clevises are screwed on to? If you can make sense of my question.
You probably know that Kevlar is extremely strong in tension, but it frays. It looks like you've got a good way of avoiding that at the hook up.
Really nice work!
Jim
Dennis, how did you secure the Kevlar thread to the metal threaded rod bits that the clevises are screwed on to? If you can make sense of my question.
You probably know that Kevlar is extremely strong in tension, but it frays. It looks like you've got a good way of avoiding that at the hook up.
Really nice work!
Jim
10-07-2011, 04:30 PM
#28
RE: VK Nieuport 17
ORIGINAL: dennis48
At least with the critical flight control (the elevator), there is redundancy of two sets of cables. If one breaks, the other set should still provide control. I'm not as worried about the rudder, which I tend to under-use anyway.
At least with the critical flight control (the elevator), there is redundancy of two sets of cables. If one breaks, the other set should still provide control. I'm not as worried about the rudder, which I tend to under-use anyway.
10-07-2011, 04:40 PM
#29
RE: VK Nieuport 17
I've had it happen twice, I'm embarrassed to say. Once it was fine. Ii flew like a rudder only plane and I even got a little flair on the landing. That was a Sig Kadet Jr. The second time it just slumped into the trees. That was a garage sale Cherokee ARF.
What happens depends on the stab incidence, because the stab is all you have left. If it is a little negative, all you need to do is adjust the throttle and you can cruise, climb or descend, just like the good ol' days. If it is more like neutral or positive, you're s.o.l.
Dennis, thanks for the description. So if I understand correctly, you used Dubro rigging couplers, but countersunk the teeny hole, right? Then I get the rest. Can't quite picture countersinking one of those, but I think I understand the idea.
Jim
What happens depends on the stab incidence, because the stab is all you have left. If it is a little negative, all you need to do is adjust the throttle and you can cruise, climb or descend, just like the good ol' days. If it is more like neutral or positive, you're s.o.l.
Dennis, thanks for the description. So if I understand correctly, you used Dubro rigging couplers, but countersunk the teeny hole, right? Then I get the rest. Can't quite picture countersinking one of those, but I think I understand the idea.
Jim
10-08-2011, 04:07 AM
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RE: VK Nieuport 17
That's right, Jim. I used Dubro rigging couplers and beveled the sharp edges of the teeny holes with a not so teeny drill. I threaded the couplers into Hayes steel-pin nylon clevises (HAY131) which are very strong and light and hold securely to 2-56 threaded rod without the added weight of lock nuts.
Dennis
Dennis
ORIGINAL: buzzard bait
I've had it happen twice, I'm embarrassed to say. Once it was fine. Ii flew like a rudder only plane and I even got a little flair on the landing. That was a Sig Kadet Jr. The second time it just slumped into the trees. That was a garage sale Cherokee ARF.
What happens depends on the stab incidence, because the stab is all you have left. If it is a little negative, all you need to do is adjust the throttle and you can cruise, climb or descend, just like the good ol' days. If it is more like neutral or positive, you're s.o.l.
Dennis, thanks for the description. So if I understand correctly, you used Dubro rigging couplers, but countersunk the teeny hole, right? Then I get the rest. Can't quite picture countersinking one of those, but I think I understand the idea.
Jim
I've had it happen twice, I'm embarrassed to say. Once it was fine. Ii flew like a rudder only plane and I even got a little flair on the landing. That was a Sig Kadet Jr. The second time it just slumped into the trees. That was a garage sale Cherokee ARF.
What happens depends on the stab incidence, because the stab is all you have left. If it is a little negative, all you need to do is adjust the throttle and you can cruise, climb or descend, just like the good ol' days. If it is more like neutral or positive, you're s.o.l.
Dennis, thanks for the description. So if I understand correctly, you used Dubro rigging couplers, but countersunk the teeny hole, right? Then I get the rest. Can't quite picture countersinking one of those, but I think I understand the idea.
Jim
10-10-2011, 01:57 AM
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RE: VK Nieuport 17
For rigging and controls I use wire fishing trace that's nylon coated - never had a problem with interference. It gives the look of metal wire but slides easily. Crimp it to terminate it in the turnbuckles/connectors.
10-10-2011, 10:54 AM
#33
RE: VK Nieuport 17
Thanks, I do know that many people do that. I don't know why, but sometimes it does seem to cause interference. But maybe I'll give that a try.
It seems the surest solution for interference from flying wires and the like is to switch to 2.4 mh.
Jim
It seems the surest solution for interference from flying wires and the like is to switch to 2.4 mh.
Jim
10-10-2011, 01:37 PM
#34
RE: VK Nieuport 17
I dont have a problem using steel for the wires but I have had failures with the plactic coated wires pullling out of the crimps (maybe I dont crimp well enough) so I dont use the plastic coated wire. I like the natural cable and solder the ends so they look more scale. You can even wrap them in a fabric which is as 1 on 1.
Doc
Doc
10-10-2011, 03:50 PM
#35
RE: VK Nieuport 17
The wires wrapped in fabric on full scale? Who did that, when? I'm not saying no one did, it's just that the wires were known to be a big cause of drag by mid-WWI; thickening them with fabric would have increased the penalty. The Brits developed streamlined RAF wire during WWI for that reason. It's hard to imagine going in the opposite direction and making them even more draggy. Not trying to contradict you here, but it definitely has me wondering...which manufacturers did that, during what period?
Maybe someone developed a technique of incorporating something that would streamline the wire a bit?
Jim
Maybe someone developed a technique of incorporating something that would streamline the wire a bit?
Jim
10-10-2011, 04:37 PM
#36
RE: VK Nieuport 17
Doc just means that the places where the the control cables were crimped were then wrapped. I think that was pretty much standard practice in WWI. Some modelers slip on a small bit of heat-shrink tubing.
10-10-2011, 04:45 PM
#37
RE: VK Nieuport 17
Correct Abu. The fabric was applied where the wire had been folded back and wrapped in one of several styles with wire and then it would be wrapped in fabric and doped. This has not yet had the fabric done to it yet but it's one of the landing wires on my N28.
02-27-2012, 04:53 PM
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RE: VK Nieuport 17
Dear VK N 17 fans, I also built this VK kit in 1970. Great quality kit in 1970 .I think it cost me $37.50 back then. Mine flew with a ST .56 2s swinging a 13 X.5 prop. Your choice for electric should be just find. I competed in an all scale RC meet at the Great Lakes old blimp airfield in 1971 with it and placed 10th. Good flying plane if you can keep it from nosing over on landing
02-27-2012, 07:56 PM
#40
RE: VK Nieuport 17
IF anyone is interested I have a VK N17 1/6 partially built,(fuse, Tail Group, lower wings). I determined it was to much for me with the functtional flying wires, etc.. I went with the BUSA Sport version. I'm located in Palm Harbor, Fl just west of Tampa.
Dennis48... I;m using the dubro rigging couplers with the teeny holes and I was concerned abot the sharp edges though people tell me not to be. So you just took a not so teeny bit and sort of bascially countersunk them slightly?
Dennis48... I;m using the dubro rigging couplers with the teeny holes and I was concerned abot the sharp edges though people tell me not to be. So you just took a not so teeny bit and sort of bascially countersunk them slightly?
