abufletcher

Looks like I might finally have a fellow scale builder at my field! Today, the same guy (Ikeda-san), who had scratch-built an EIII a while ago, had a scratch-built Bleriot to maiden! Based on 3-views from the internet he did some CAD drawings and built from those. I was particularly impressed with his solutions for the functional suspension. The model included rudder and elevon (?) control. No wing warping. On take-off, it climbed like crazy and the test pilot had a heck of a time bringing it back around with little yaw control, but did well to accomplish a rough landing that took off the undercarriage but left the rest of the model intact.

Anyone else got a Bleriot...or Bleriot photos to post?

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

That is a very interesting solution to control. Many of the little electric jets use that. It is actually called Ailevator or taileron. I had an F18 with that and I was actually able to do very quick rolls. It did feel different though.
Nice airplane.

abufletcher

I should try to introduce him to solartex.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

What did he use? Again with the WW1, and climbing. I bet there was a rigging issue. Positive incidence in the wing.

abufletcher

Some monocoat-type covering in white and orange! As far as I know, Ikeda-san has only just begun to build scale and this model is a huge advance in both scale and complexity as compared with his EIII (which also used white and orange monocoat). In one of the photos above you can see him in the yellow/green down jacket in the far right corner.

The rigging is just elastic. But, if I understood him correctly, he said that mounted the wing at 2.5 degrees (whereas the original, he tells me, had 7 degrees). The model uses a fairly thick, slightly undercambered airfoil.

The total weight ready to fly was 1.3kg.

abufletcher

Here a shot of Ikeda-san's scratch-built EIII. It flew well, had a fairly scale shape, but if only he had covered it in solartex!

abufletcher

BTW, this sort of "impressionistic scale" seems to be somewhat the norm for electric models. That is, the builders don't really get carried away with the whole "exact scale" thing, but they also aren't building rough "fun scale" models. Rather the spirit seems to be to capture the feel, and to some extent the functionality, of these old time aircraft. I must admit that I'm intrigued by this idea...as well as the fact that these modelers typically "knock out" 2-3 interesting models per year.


What size glow engine do you think would suit a small, light model like this?

ARUP

Hi Abu- here's my Bleriot XI in 'Channel Crosser' scheme before the fuselage float inserted. Louis has run off to go get one- (that's why there is no pilot presently sitting). Scratch built 62" span and OS48fs. It has wing warping and cable controls and functioning oles. The 'wicker' seat (not seen in this photo) is made from strips of manila folder. Fold the folder in half, make cuts almost to ends, unfold and secure ends, thread 'free' stips through, lacquer stain and clear dope, let dry and then remove from board to fashion into a seat! It flies... like a Bleriot!

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I would say for an engine, probably the Saito .40 if they still make it. Anything in that range. The .56 may be too much. It has a lot of power really. Possibly the .30 if you are really light. My .30 turns a 10-4 prop quite well but not a powerhouse.
What I meant by rigging was the decalage and incidence measurements. that was good he reduced it from the original. I am beginning to think that the incidence (rigging) of a lot of these early aircraft is one of the things the designers were getting wrong. Obviously, they did not have everything figured out back then and from reading pilot reports, they all had to push forward for level flight.

TFF

Don Coe has a Mick Reeves build on RCSB ,and on the Aerodrome there is a full size build mixed in with the Albatross thread. In town here, there is a large RC one as decoration in a restaurant which, I think, was a high end kit from the 80s.

rmarnold

Great looking model. Thought you might like to see the 'real deal'. This is the worlds oldest, flying airplane, Bleriot XI, serial # 56. I took this shot at Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome Sept '09 at the annual R/C event. Enjoy.

Bob

WinterHawke

Here are some photos of Mark Hall's Bleriot XI at the 2009 Ohio Dawn Patrol. Flew well all weekend.













Only thing missing is a stern-looking Frenchman in the wicker seat!!

Best regards,

Lee McD

abufletcher

Great Bleriot photos (and models)! Keep'em coming. Even thought I got to see a flying replica at the Vroegge Voegels ("Early Birds") workshop in the Netherlands in December 2009, I realize I don't really know how the tail plane functioned. I was surprised to see the opposite sides of the tail on Ikeda-san's model capable of moving in opposite directions (and from the inflight photos perhaps independently). Who was it on the original Bleriots?

abufletcher

BTW, where are people getting these great spoked wheels? I asked the guy at my club and thought his might have come from Great Planes, but wasn't sure. I can't seem to find an link to wire wheels from GP. These looked pretty good. The tires had grooves in them.

WinterHawke

Good morning, Don

I believe that Mark's Bleriot is the K&W Kit, and according to their website the model comes complete with the spoked wheels. There wasn't much more information on them, unfortunately, that I could see up at K&W . . . however, they are listed as accessories in sizes 4", 5" and 6" at the U.S. distributer 3 Sea Bees website ( www.3seabees.com ).

Regarding the tail feathers on the Bleriot, the original versions (including the Channel crosser) had a unique setup whereas the entire horizontal tail's outer portions pivoted in unison acting as elevators:



Later versions greatly simplified this, with conventional elevators hinged at the rear of the horizontal stabilizer.

Very best regards,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke

abufletcher

Lee, thanks for that information. Mr. Ikeda is wondering what went wrong with his model. It climbed far too much and was very difficult to turn. The balance seemed about right. I believe the wing incidence (for the non-scale undercambered airfoil) was set at 2.5 degrees. I don't know about the elevator. He was using an unusual set up on the elevator which VG was calling "ailevator" or "taileron" (as used on some small ducted fan jet models). It seems to me that a better setup would be to put the wings at either 1 or zero degrees and set the elevator up as a normal elevator and use rudder for turns. It looks like it has a good sized rudder.

What would you all recommend to Mr. Ikeda?

TFF

I believe the last version had a standard hinged elevator. http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/re...ii-news-2.html
The wing looks a little flat; if he had a little more dihedral it would turn with the rudder without getting dangerous with the ailevators. The jets work well because the wingspan is so short; the long wings have too much leverage on the short tail. The real one turns pretty flat; rudder and elevator is the way to go.

abufletcher

I hadn't noticed that about the dihedral...and I think you're absolutely right. Setting it up as a standard 3-channel model is the way to go. He should be able to do this without making any major changes to the model.

As far as why it's climbing so severely I assume that's either because the incidence on the main wing 2.5 degrees) is too much for that airfoil or that he needs some (more?) downthrust on the engine.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with the dihedral as well. the tailerons just will not have enough leverage for all of that span and area. Not only that, it is a constant chord wing which is not as easily rolled as the tapered variety of the little jets. Just adding dihedral might do it and then maybe mixing out most of the aileron on the stab. Using Rudder to mostly turn the aircraft. If it were me, I would put the rudder on the aileron stick, with slight amounts of taileron mixed with quantities figured through testing.
Also, I would lower the incidence of the wing, assuming the Stabilator was set properly in the first place. Also look at down thrust to keep from climbing. Maybe 2-3 degrees.

ARUP

Mr. Ikeda's model is very neat! If he were to emulate the Royal kit and just have throttle, rudder and elevator as controls he would have a nice flying airplane on fairly calm days. He should build a wing warping version. He seems to have the building skills needed. Also, bigger flies better! Tailwinds, ARUP

SDCrashmaster

It's more than just small electric jets that use tailerons/elevons/ailevators. Many larger turbine-powered models have these. Infact, a large % of F-15 models have elevons only, (no ailerons whatsoever).

abufletcher

So, what you're saying is that Mr. Ikeda should put a turbine in his Bleriot, right?

ARUP

Henri Coanda did it! His wasn't a Bleriot but it was pretty much built the same. It caught fire during the takeoff and he 'bailed'! I tell people over and over- there is nothing new under the sun!

rmarnold

http://www.top-flite.com/accys/topq6000.html

GaryHarris

I think I'm getting hooked on scale WWI.