Shorty54

Quick rundown on equipment. I have 3 Taigen Tanks, all IR, all with new TK22 Clark Boards. I have installed the IR LEDS that came with the boards, I believe they are IR010. I made a tube in the turret to fit the IR LED into. I drilled out the hole in the mantlet to 6mm and set the LED back 9-10mm from the front of the mantlet to the front of the bulb. The problem Im having is that the tanks will take hits from each other when they are in different rooms, back to back, side by side, or not even facing each other. I have the stock Taigen Battle Unit or Apple as some call it. Any ideas on what I did wrong??

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Sounds like you are getting reflections off the walls, have you tried testing outside?

Shorty54

I have not tried outside. I guess we were thinking these were going to work inside. We are going to be very disapointed if they dont work well indoors. I have 3 VS Pro 1/24 IR tanks and they dont act like this, they are actually pretty acurate. At least the VS tanks have to be pointed at each other to take hits.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

They should work ok indoors, but as a first step you should eliminate the possibility of reflections - if you are still taking crazy hits then something weird is going on. Do you have another apple you can test with?

ausf

It should work fine indoors, don't worry about that.

Keep in mind the Tamiya apple uses a sensor that is deep inside the unit, with two sets of filters and a reflective pyramid to focus the beam. When I was testing sensors/emitter for apple design, I had a sensor sealed inside a one inch PVC plumbing pipe (white, opaque) and the sensor was taking hits from all sides. IR penetrates some interesting stuff.

Depending on the angle (spread) of the IR emitter, or the location of the sensor, you'll need to shield to focus the beam. Foil tape works, a few coats of dark paint or using a metal tube with the emitter (if it's the emitter).

Remember, this is adapted technology from TV remotes where the idea is to get the signal to as much area as possible. People think the Tamiya apple is too pricey, but there's quite a bit of engineering in that thing and it's not easily duplicated on the cheap. You give up any of the shielding, filtering, etc and you give up performance.

Shorty54

OK. Ill try it outside later today. I only have the 3 tanks, so 3 Apples, they all send and receive hits from all over. I can put one tank in my bedroom and another tank 2 rooms away on the same side of the house and it will register. I just thought of something, Im not sure if it might be the issue. When I took the Taigen IR LED out the hole it was in was painted, when I drilled out the hole to 6mm I did not repaint the inside. Could the IR signal be reflecting off the bare metal?? With the Clark IR LED and stock Taigen LED diameter hole, the tanks were very accurate. I was told the hole needed to be 6mm and IR 9mm back, so thats why I drilled it out to 6mm.

TheBennyB

As for the dimensions, you can't go larger than 6mm ID, you can go as small as you want. Also you can go as deep as you want just no shallower than 9mm to front of bulb.
I have had the same experience with HL apples, very sensitive and I refuse to use them even in cheapo fixed position projects like a bazooka team in a building.

thecommander

Martin is spot on. IR reflects better than you think. Want to see how much? Turn of the lights in your test room and using a video camera to view the area..., fire your tanks IR. The IR "Splash" is everywhere. FYI....some cell phone cameras will not see your IR beam. Any digital camera screen will see your IR however. Impact emitters can been "glowing" with the naked eye if you are close. Outside in bright sunlight IR range is reduced about 25%. Overcast skies are best.

Shorty54

Thanks for the great info guys! I guess the thing to do is get 3 Tamiya Apples then? Ill try some tape and paint too. Anyone have a great go-to place for those? Anyone recomend one place vs another? Id like to buy from someplace that supports us. US vendor would be great, for shipping and shipping time.

sergeantseabass

AAF sells the apples. bout $90 There are a couple of other places that you can get them from as well. I only say AAF because that is where I got min from. They are in VA, shipping was fast and it was about the cheapest i was able to find that was in the US and wasn't on EBAY

Shorty54

Thanks, I will check them out.

Max-U52

I need one, too (Tamiya only, with base if I can find a package), and I think there's a few more guys that also need one or more. I wonder if we could get a bulk deal someplace? Just a thought.

Shorty54

I found several places that carry them in the US price varies about $20 with shipping. I guess Tamiya is the top of the line, I did just see a RBU for about $30, anyone know how they compare? Im not sure I want to spend $300 on Tamiya Apples, but I dont want to spend $100 on RBU apples and then spend $300 on Tamiya apples!

sergeantseabass

I'm about to buy one of these to try out. See how well it does up against the Tamiya apple. It might be worth a shot. I know Bob used to sell them. i don't know if he still does or not. But at 30% cheaper than a tamiya with what apear to be about the same stats it could be worth looking into.
http://mitosal.com/73003.htm

Bill

Shorty54

I cant get new Apples for the weekend. I think just for the heck of it Im going to installed the emmitter LED into a metal painted tube in the turret. I might experiment with some foil tape around the Taigen Apple. Maybe this will tone down the IR a little. Im so new to this IR stuff, I just dont undertsand exactly how it works. I hear other people talking about focusing the emitter, just not sure what that means or how its done?

TheBennyB

They are basically the same as the tamiya apple. They and the tamiya use a different plug on the apple base though, so you won't be able to switch back and forth (say tamiya apple on Impact base) without a little trimming. Also not sue on the filters on the Impact, if they have the same specs as the tamiya when it comes to 45 degree/slope defense

YHR

My suggestion now to everyone is to get the Tamiya TBU. They are costly but they are built to exacting standards and perform well.


However all IR emitters are not the same either. You may want to try a different emitter then a Clark one before you decide to buy a bunch of Tamiya TBU's.

Airbrushler

what about the DBU
how does it compare

Max-U52

What's a DBU?

thecommander

I still stock battle units. I also sell loose apples. I was supplying IR battle units to Karen since last year when she couldn't get any from Tamiya.
Contact me via my website http://www.rctankcommand.com/

thecommander

Davids Battle Unit. It is a very early, but reliable, Tamiya compatible IR battle system. I would drop right into a HL or DBU II used a hobby radio. I have several of them. They cost less than a Tamiya but are the poor mans TBU. The DBU is a bit different in performance and has shorter range for hitting the enemy. If you can afford it go with the TBU/IBU Systems.

ausf

All the Tamiya compatible apples have some level of functionality, but if you are fighting with a club, it's easier if you have the TBU.

At it's heart, you just need sensors, a cap, resistor and emitter. The one below is just some components installed in a Tiger I cupola. It has the exact functionality and range of the TBU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpSZzFiF6I

sergeantseabass

Hey Bob I tried looking at your site for the TBU but I couln't find anything about on them. The upgrade area only has HL 360 turret rings. Where do I need to look.

YHR

Actually the DBU is an IR sensor. IT is a DIY kit that uses four IR sensor vs Tamiya;s one. I think it might get popular again once Clark releases the TK 60, With its ability to differentiate where the shot hits the tank it will need something more then the Tamiya TBU can provide. Because the DBU is kit, it is customizable. Many guys use them and put the sensors down in the tank so you don't have the mushroom sticking out of the top.

http://darkith.dyndns.org/~darkith/html/dbu_inst.shtml

Range has more to do with the Emitter then it does the sensor. The BARC or DBC has a 68 ohm resistor in the IR circuit to protect the IR led. I remove this and the range will push 30 metres.

MAUS45

Ausf, I like the way you hid the apple, but your metal/weathered look on your Tiger is fabulous!!!