jroz

YHR you mentioned upgrading the gearbox. When you say 4 shaft do you mean those 4:1 gearboxes? I've seen one for the Panther G that forge bear is selling for a real low price and I'm considering hitting the 'buy now' button


Right now I have the stock zinc gears that came with the Taigen Panther G. What kind of performance increase would I see with this upgrade? More Torque (going up hills??)? Responsiveness? I've also heard they slow the tank down. Is this a huge decrease in speed? I don't really want my kitty to crawl so I'm still on the fence.


Also this barc board sounds interesting. How much does it go for?? Basically if I'm getting an upgrade board, to do the whole HL to 2.4 ghz radio bit I'm kinda after something simple and not super expensive, like under £100. I also need to find a hobby grade radio that's decent, but again not for crazy money.
Cheers

RichJohnson

Wicked cheap radio Dan convinced me to use.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...?strSearch=t6a

YHR

Because of all the poor terminology thrown around to describe the gearboxes, I have picked up on Gary's idea of identifying the boxes by the number of shafts that exist between the main output drive and the motor pinion, A lot of vendors started calling stock gears 3:1, and people bought them thinking they were getting something different , when in fact they were the same as the stock gears. I am not sure how many people got burned buying 3:1 gears thinking they were getting a lower ratio, only to find out they were the same as stock.

So the gears with 4 shafts deliver more torque, better low speed performance, and if you are running stock electronics the lower gear ratio will protect the stock RX18, as the draw to turn the motors is lower. Again what I preach is this is the first upgrade you want to make on a Heng long, as it the one single upgrade that has the most benefit of making your toy tank function more like a Tamiya. Change the gear box out to the 4 shaft, or get Mato 2.0 or Tamiya boxes. Any of these options will provide you with much better tank control.

The BARC4 is $90 CAN, and the Hobby King radio is a good radio. I do have both in stock, and you can get to my website by following the link in my signature.. As long as you leave the elevation stock, this is a very easy conversion for the crystal based RX18. You literally plug in the 3 wire control cable and you will have all the stock tank functions.

This does not work with the Heng Long or Taigen 2.4 GHz system. Again one more reason why I am no fan of the factory 2.4 ghz systems.

The BARC has sound options. Basic cannon, hit and destroy sound are available if you buy the inexpensive sound board, or you can add the full featured programmable Benedini that will deliver the best sounds available.( Again all plug and play)

Max-U52

Jroz, here's a little video about gearboxes you might find handy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKz1rTDO2qY And this is my Imex Panther G with 4 shaft gearboxes. I changed from the stock 3 shaft and I couldn't be happier with the results. Control is MUCH better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRjptZtv_Pw Hope that helps.

Max-U52

One more thing, Jroz, I don't know what country you're in but a lot of times it's better to get your radio closer to home because of shipping. I was going to buy my radio from the same place I got my IBU2 but Ian told me to just get one here in the states because the shipping rates really make a huge difference. A vendor that will to tell you to buy your radio from someone else to save money really does have your best interests at heart, if you ask me. If you're in the US the Hobby King US warehouses might be your best bet for radios. You also have to watch for mark-up. Some vendors will sell you a $30 HK radio along with their other products, but they ask considerably more than what Hobby King sells the same radio for (I saw one that wanted $75 for a $35 radio). I can't say about Dan's radio prices, but he's pretty good about most stuff so probably doesn't have much mark-up over the Hobby King price so if you get a package deal you might be better off that way. I guess what I'm saying is - Shop around!

YHR

I always point people to Hobby king. I have the radios in stock for the guys that really want plug and play. If I sell them the radio then I set up the system completely with the radio and receiver so all they have to do is plug in the 3 wire control plug from the RX18.

I have that radio as well Gary. I tried them, because like you mentioned the servo reverse tabs are on the front of the radio.. However I still stick with the T6A as you can save the file and flash the setting to every new radio.

For a few more dollars you can get this.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...r_Mode_2_.html

This one allows you to store 20 different tanks and has the proportional knobs on channel 5 & 6

Max-U52

I also looked at that radio, but from the US warehouse it's almost $55 and I decided that if I'm going to spend anything over $50 I'll wait for a sale and get the 9X. That was about $80 including shipping, without being on sale, only about $15 more than the 6ch once you add shipping and US warehouse price.

YHR

Yes I haven't pulled the trigger on either. I like the cheap radio as I add function buttons without worrying too much. I think I would go to the 9x as well if I was going to spend more.

jroz

Thanks for all the great tips guys. Gary I just realized, it was your vids that finally convinced me to buy the Taigen Panther G. I'm very happy for it so many thanks for that Also your vid about gearboxes completely cleared up the 4.1/4 shaft confusion. I've just purchased a 4 shaft, black steel gearbox from forge bear for the panther G. I think the next thing I'm gonna go for will be a 4 shaft for the Sherman and at some point will def get a new board, probably for the Sherman first, as I'm still rather content with the Taigen panther G radio. Dan, I saw your Sherman fire fly video. Just..wow. That's my dream tank right there. Did you ever do a guide on how you built that? I saw forge bear has the 17 firefly barrel, but I'm guessing it takes a bit more modding that just swapping out the short barrel gun for the 17 pounder.

I'm finding this hobby to be rather addictive already. I've always been a tank nut, started with 1/35 Tamiya models when I was a kid, started playing World of Tanks right after school and R/C tanks seem like the best of both worlds and the next step in the evolution of my tank obsession

Max-U52

Glad the videos were of help. My Panther G is still on the stock electronics and will probably stay that way for a while. I've always thought that if I'm just cruisin' around the backyard shootin' BBs at the trees the stock electronics are just fine, especially once I go to four shaft gearboxes. The Jagdpanther has an IBU2 on the way, but that's only three of my 16 tanks that run on anything but the stock Taigen 2.4 GHz package, and two of those three are airsoft. Now, if you get into IR battling you won't have any choice but get better equipment. Unless of course you're just masochistic and you truly enjoy gettin' your butt waxed in seconds flat. That's why my next purchase for that tank will be a Tamiya battle system. That's when I'll be cryin' for instructions on how to mount it for TFA (Tamiya Frontal Armor) right from the start. That should be easy, though, since it's just turning the base 45 degrees. I'm sure I'll start a thread, though, just to be sure I have the right emitter and all that.

Addictive doesn't even begin to cover it, Bro. I've had lots of hobbies, but never one that got me in so deep so fast as this one. The things I'm learning as a result still amaze me.

jroz

Hey with regards to the 4 shaft gear box I ordered. I've heard people talking about 'breaking in new gears/motors. What exactly does 'breaking in' mean?? How do you go about it. Does it improve performance, or lessen risk of damage?

YHR

Because of the quality control around these gearboxes, sometimes it makes sense to spend some time running them before you put them in a tank. You want to make sure they free wheel OK and you may even have to shim them to take some side to side play out of them.

I have built a few fireflies, so it depends what video you are watching.

Here is an old one before I started playing around with sound.

Video is not slowed down . The gearing on this tank is very low. I converted these gear using Perry's mods years ago. I yanked these boxes and put Mato 2.0 gears in. I could never get these bashed gears to be quiet enough, so I replaced them. They sure had torque though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ExPglbtzrA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOueOJHhHo

Max-U52

There are a lot of different methods for breaking in a gearbox, but the point is to make sure the gears roll smoothly and kind of seat together, kind of like hydraulic lifters have to seat in to the camshaft. My method is as follows. I remove the motors and roll the gears by hand, just to see how they feel out of the box, and if they need any shimming I do it then. Then I clean them thoroughly with mineral spirits, re-install the motors and I put the boxes in my left over JP hull but some guys have jigs built or just clamp the boxes to a table or whatever they need to do to hold them in place. You can put them right in the tank if you want, and that's usually a good method. Right before I re-install the motors I apply a little lapping compound to all the gears with a brush, trying to get them evenly coated all the way around the diameter of each and every gear, and I use three in one oil on all bearings and bushings (I re-oil all bushings and bearings after every cleaning). With motors in place and boxes bolted into the spare lower hull, I run the motors at varying speeds for two minutes. The lapping compound I use is this special (AKA very expensive) precision compound I get at work, but just about any kind of mildly abrasive lapping compound will do the job. After lapping for two minutes I remove the boxes from the hull, remove the motors from the boxes and clean everything again. Thoroughly! You want to get every little bit of lapping compound off the gears. Then I reinstall the motors, put the boxes back in the spare hull, apply Lubriplate, (any white lithium grease will work) and oil where needed and run the motors at varying speeds for 20 to 30 minutes (about one charge of a 3000 mah nimh battery). Then I take them out of the spare hull and if the grease looks really dark I'll clean them again here and then install them in the chosen tank and make sure they're well oiled and lubed.

That's the procedure I use and it seems to make the gears run at optimum performance. Some guys do this, some don't, and a lot of different guys have a lot of different methods so you might want to check for other procedures and follow the one you feel most comfortable with. If anyone reading this sees anything I'm doing wrong or sees anything I need to add to my procedure please say so, I'm always willing to learn new methods to improve my tanks.

Hope that helps.

Captain Nemo12

It's also important to not get the abrasive compound near your shafts or bushings/bearings, since you don't want to accidentally grind those down.

YHR

I ran a sink full of hot water and run the gears in that to cleanout everything, before re greasing. Truth is I don't do this on every set, only the ones that seem to be rough. I had one set of pot metal gears that came in the HL Sherman that were whisper quiet. I couldn't believe it. I left those alone.

RichJohnson

Dan, with matomart only restocking with the 2.4 ghz tanks from HL, it looks like the rx-18 might be out of production. What does the future hold for your plug and play barc system? If the RX-18 system dissapears then all the brands of plug and play upgrade will have to adapt to the newer 2.4 what ever it is or just build and market a new plug and play or "total tank system" with turret rotation, motor speed control and steering and sound all in one. Along with elevation and airsoft and recoil and other options...

YHR

There are a lot of RX18's around and they can still be ordered. The BARC is as much a Benedini encoder as it is anything else, so if the RX18's dry up then they will not need a supportive card, However the BARC and Benedini will still work with any ESC that used standard servo signals. Heng Long has built their own Tamiya compatible battle system. When these start getting included in the Factory tanks then the need for any 3rd party stuff will dry up. This is why I never sunk a lot of capital in this venture.

The BARC wil be around for as long as it is needed. In my discussion with David awhile ago we made the decision it made no sense to come out with yet another competing system to replace the HL electronics. The market is too small and the offshore manufacturing makes it almost impossible to compete. We are tank enthusiasts that supplied equipment to people when nothing else was available. SInce the time more and more stuff has been made availble, but i have discovered the little old DBC just keeps plugging along.

You have to remember the DBC/Barc was developed years ago long before IBU2, Clark or the RCTA stuff were even thought of. It filled the need to convert a Heng long into a tank that could battle with a Tamiya rather inexpensively. That it did and it served this market when there was nothing else available.

I can tell you the decision to cater to the the current Heng Long and Taigen system has been already made. Nope, not going to happen from our end.

Reasons

No money in it

Those system aren't worth supporting. You can buy the HK T6A and gain access to all the other RC equipment available.

Clark system is about 90% of what most people want, and we are fine with that. If you want to upgrade the sound you can add a Benedini and get the very best sound available

This small market is now being served well.

RichJohnson

Wow, are you saying the 2.4 ghz system IR is tamiya compatible or is this a newer HL system we havent seen yet?

i like your barcs. Both of them. I have seen the current clark board and its complicated operation. I have better hopes for his future one.

now you hit on somthing when you said any esc can work with the barc and bendini. How would that work out? Im intrigued to know.

Max-U52

Heng Long is getting out of IR tanks all together. It won't be long before all HL tanks are only available as airsoft tanks.

YHR

THe Heng Long system is only at the prototye state, so it may never see the light of day, but they are working on something. As a developer this is a scary thing, as no sooner would you get someting done, and then the factory would start including a decent sytem on the RTR tanks. Just that threat alone has prevented me from really spending much money on developing or manufacturing anything else.

As you know with continous servos you can have turret rotation and servo eelvation just using a standard reciever. You don't need a tank controller. So if you added a BARC to a sabre tooth ESC you could have sound, IR batlting and drive. The issue is to slow down the tank when it has been hit. You would lose that. However the Benedini has the ability to progressively move a servo. This could allow me to reduce the voltage input to the sabre tooth affecting the voltage out to mimic the speed reduction required. I have all the componets and it is just another project I was going to work on,

As you have discovered the BARC is a pretty simple set up, and is easy to use, and this alone keeps it selling. The fact that you can use the cheap sound card for decent batlting , and then Benedini full featured programmable sound means you have not dead ended yourself with this system. The BARC has proven to be very adaptable, and works very well with Tamiya tanks

YHR

Getting out of the current IR, but don't be surprised to see something else show up that uses a hobby grade radio as well..

jroz

Guys I wonder if you could give me a bit of advice on something. I just got those 4.1 black steel gears for the taigen panther G and the screw holes on the left gearbox don't match up with the existing holes on the lower chassis. For some reason the hole arrangement on the left side isn't symmetrical with those on the right, which fits the new gearbox perfectly. The left gearbox also seems to slot perfectly into the raised plastic supports, so it fits fine, I just can't screw it in. My first thought is to drill some new hols on the chassis and perhaps find some sort of plastic tube I can trim in 3 short lengths to replicate the raised screw holes currently on the chassis. Maybe I can super glue those to the chassis. Does this sound like an idea that would work? Anyone else had a similar problem and found a different solution?? Thanks

Max-U52

What kind of tank? Have you thought about a metal mounting plate? I did that in my Jagdpanther and there's a video about it somewhere. If you need it I'll dig up the link. And a lot of tanks only mount the left box with two screws right from the factory. If I don't use the metal plate I just mark and drill holes in the bottom of the gearbox to match the mounting posts in the tank.

jroz

It's for the Taigen Panther G. It might be possible to drill through the plate, but one of the screws wouldn't really work because there's a cog right in the way of where it would go. I'd only be able to get two in that way. Would that be acceptable? Also what's a metal mounting plate? Is it something you can get from the hardware store?

Max-U52

I also have an Imex Panther G and I've done some work to it. Start with this video. If it's helpful and you want to see more about this hull go to the youtube channel (Gary Hoff) and look for the brass gearboxes in the Jagdpanther. There are 6 or 7 videos all about putting in new gearboxes. It's the same lower hull and that's the one I put the metal motor plate in. Erik used to have some plates he would send to guys for free but I don't know if he still has any, you'd have to ask him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxErRPc9Xhk