Worst tank of WWII
02-25-2010, 08:00 AM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
I think all the allies and axis had conscription and i think canada had the highest enlestment rate of all the allies but without us industrie they would have had to fight with snow balls. At least when it counts we all could use the lousy shermans to beat the tar out of the nazis and ijn.
02-25-2010, 08:27 AM
#78
RE: Worst tank of WWII
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
02-25-2010, 10:07 AM
#79
RE: Worst tank of WWII
Hello, I will diverge for one post to attempt to answer the front/rear drive question.
The philosophy of the front drive was some natural –added- protection of the crew from frontal assault. The disadvantage was obviously KO of gearbox more likely to occur in frontal assault. Also the technical complexity of front drive with a under floor drive shaft created vertical space issues and yet another potential breakage point.
Rear drive required moving the turret forward (and the crew) and generally less hull space for ammo storage.
The philosophy of the front drive was some natural –added- protection of the crew from frontal assault. The disadvantage was obviously KO of gearbox more likely to occur in frontal assault. Also the technical complexity of front drive with a under floor drive shaft created vertical space issues and yet another potential breakage point.
Rear drive required moving the turret forward (and the crew) and generally less hull space for ammo storage.
02-25-2010, 10:53 AM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Hi rivetcounter,
Yep, those are some great WWII British Normandy photos.
Why not research the ETO events yourself rather than asking really asinine questions. What are you, 13 years old? Tons of content out there, so it would be easy to do.
And here is some help to get you motivated: "Within 2 months after the June 6, 1944 Normandy invasion, Patton was placed in command of the U.S. Third Army, which was on the extreme right (west) of the Allied landing forces.
Beginning at noon on August 1, 1944, he led this army during the late stages of Operation Cobra, to make the famous breakout from earlier slow fighting in the Normandy hedgerows against brilliant German Army Defensive fighting. Patton's Third Army simultaneously attacked west into Brittany, towards the Seine, and north, assisting in trapping several hundred thousand German soldiers in the Chambois pocket, between Falaise and Argentan, Orne."
Patton had major faults as a military leader and they are well documented, but Patton's faults were only exceed by Bernard Montgomery's behavior (Montgomery was completely hated by both Ike and Patton and considered worthless as a general), though all 3 are considered great military leaders for their WWII era.
And your next assignment rivetcounter is to go figure, how a prissy little ugly Englishman could make that great military leaders list. 
Best Regards, John
02-25-2010, 11:01 AM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
02-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
From Wikipedia:
"Conscription in the United States (also called compulsory military service or the draft) has been employed several times, usually during war but also during the nominal peace of the Cold War. The United States discontinued the draft in 1973, moving to an all-volunteer military force, thus there is currently no mandatory conscription."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscri..._United_States
Regards
Uhu
"Conscription in the United States (also called compulsory military service or the draft) has been employed several times, usually during war but also during the nominal peace of the Cold War. The United States discontinued the draft in 1973, moving to an all-volunteer military force, thus there is currently no mandatory conscription."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscri..._United_States
Regards
Uhu
02-25-2010, 12:39 PM
#83
RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: pcomm1
Hi rivetcounter,
Yep, those are some great WWII British Normandy photos.
Why not research the ETO events yourself rather than asking really asinine questions. What are you, 13 years old? Tons of content out there, so it would be easy to do.
And here is some help to get you motivated: ''Within 2 months after the June 6, 1944 Normandy invasion, Patton was placed in command of the U.S. Third Army, which was on the extreme right (west) of the Allied landing forces.
Beginning at noon on August 1, 1944, he led this army during the late stages of Operation Cobra, to make the famous breakout from earlier slow fighting in the Normandy hedgerows against brilliant German Army Defensive fighting. Patton's Third Army simultaneously attacked west into Brittany, towards the Seine, and north, assisting in trapping several hundred thousand German soldiers in the Chambois pocket, between Falaise and Argentan, Orne.''
Patton had major faults as a military leader and they are well documented, but Patton's faults were only exceed by Bernard Montgomery's behavior (Montgomery was completely hated by both Ike and Patton and considered worthless as a general), though all 3 are considered great military leaders for their WWII era. And your next assignment rivetcounter is to go figure, how a prissy little ugly Englishman could make that great military leaders list.
Best Regards, John
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Hi rivetcounter,
Yep, those are some great WWII British Normandy photos.
Why not research the ETO events yourself rather than asking really asinine questions. What are you, 13 years old? Tons of content out there, so it would be easy to do.
And here is some help to get you motivated: ''Within 2 months after the June 6, 1944 Normandy invasion, Patton was placed in command of the U.S. Third Army, which was on the extreme right (west) of the Allied landing forces.
Beginning at noon on August 1, 1944, he led this army during the late stages of Operation Cobra, to make the famous breakout from earlier slow fighting in the Normandy hedgerows against brilliant German Army Defensive fighting. Patton's Third Army simultaneously attacked west into Brittany, towards the Seine, and north, assisting in trapping several hundred thousand German soldiers in the Chambois pocket, between Falaise and Argentan, Orne.''
Patton had major faults as a military leader and they are well documented, but Patton's faults were only exceed by Bernard Montgomery's behavior (Montgomery was completely hated by both Ike and Patton and considered worthless as a general), though all 3 are considered great military leaders for their WWII era.
And your next assignment rivetcounter is to go figure, how a prissy little ugly Englishman could make that great military leaders list. Best Regards, John
Falaise gap wasn’t this closed by the Canadians because Patton’s Blitz across Europe was pitifully slow allowing 10’s thousand’s Germans to escape and in the end his superior leadership was incapable of closing the gap, as for your Kinder garden comments on Monty yes him Ike and who was the other Captain you mentioned? Did have there fallings out and I’m sure people like you where around to exaggerate and exacerbate the problem Ike’s plan on invasion was rejected where as Monty’s was executed perhaps that was what the problem was really about, imagine the temper tantrums Ike had when he was told that the little ugly blokes plan was going to be used and he was also going to lead “Operation overlord”
Talking of Ike wasn’t he the great leader who dismissed the German build up during “Wacht an Rine” saying the Germans don’t have that many divisions and locked himself away for 3 days at the start of the Ardennes offensive leaving an Army to fend for it’s self then latter claiming Skorzeny’s commandos where trying to kill him 300 miles from the front, Monty may have been ugly but he was never caught with his pants down
02-25-2010, 03:35 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
I think "Monty" was caught with his pants down when he sent the British Airborne division into Arnhem. Complete failure of intel. on that one. A "Monty" planed operation that "Ike" approved based upon faulty British information. This was his pet operation that failed and prolonged the war by diverting effort away from opening the port of Antwerp that would have solved the supply/distance problem.
As for the Falaise Gap "Monty" controled the lines of who was supposed to be where. Patton got to the point he was supposed to and was not allowed to continue. Was told to stop.
All generals had thier faults and all of them fell short at some point. Bottom line: we were not perfect; we were good enough to win.
As for the Falaise Gap "Monty" controled the lines of who was supposed to be where. Patton got to the point he was supposed to and was not allowed to continue. Was told to stop.
All generals had thier faults and all of them fell short at some point. Bottom line: we were not perfect; we were good enough to win.
02-25-2010, 03:37 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Falaise gap wasn’t this closed by the Canadians because Patton’s Blitz across Europe was pitifully slow allowing 10’s thousand’s Germans to escape and in the end his superior leadership was incapable of closing the gap, as for your Kinder garden comments on Monty yes him Ike and who was the other Captain you mentioned? Did have there fallings out and I’m sure people like you where around to exaggerate and exacerbate the problem Ike’s plan on invasion was rejected where as Monty’s was executed perhaps that was what the problem was really about, imagine the temper tantrums Ike had when he was told that the little ugly blokes plan was going to be used and he was also going to lead “Operation overlord”
Talking of Ike wasn’t he the great leader who dismissed the German build up during “Wacht an Rine” saying the Germans don’t have that many divisions and locked himself away for 3 days at the start of the Ardennes offensive leaving an Army to fend for it’s self then latter claiming Skorzeny’s commandos where trying to kill him 300 miles from the front, Monty may have been ugly but he was never caught with his pants down
ORIGINAL: pcomm1
Hi rivetcounter,
Yep, those are some great WWII British Normandy photos.
Why not research the ETO events yourself rather than asking really asinine questions. What are you, 13 years old? Tons of content out there, so it would be easy to do.
And here is some help to get you motivated: ''Within 2 months after the June 6, 1944 Normandy invasion, Patton was placed in command of the U.S. Third Army, which was on the extreme right (west) of the Allied landing forces.
Beginning at noon on August 1, 1944, he led this army during the late stages of Operation Cobra, to make the famous breakout from earlier slow fighting in the Normandy hedgerows against brilliant German Army Defensive fighting. Patton's Third Army simultaneously attacked west into Brittany, towards the Seine, and north, assisting in trapping several hundred thousand German soldiers in the Chambois pocket, between Falaise and Argentan, Orne.''
Patton had major faults as a military leader and they are well documented, but Patton's faults were only exceed by Bernard Montgomery's behavior (Montgomery was completely hated by both Ike and Patton and considered worthless as a general), though all 3 are considered great military leaders for their WWII era. And your next assignment rivetcounter is to go figure, how a prissy little ugly Englishman could make that great military leaders list.
Best Regards, John
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Pcomm1, the pictures you have shown are either British or have been knocked out by British, does that mean that the British where in Normandy or had Patton moved on and left a British photography unit behind.
Every Army that has ever taken part in a mojor conflict has had to conscript men.
Hi rivetcounter,
Yep, those are some great WWII British Normandy photos.
Why not research the ETO events yourself rather than asking really asinine questions. What are you, 13 years old? Tons of content out there, so it would be easy to do.
And here is some help to get you motivated: ''Within 2 months after the June 6, 1944 Normandy invasion, Patton was placed in command of the U.S. Third Army, which was on the extreme right (west) of the Allied landing forces.
Beginning at noon on August 1, 1944, he led this army during the late stages of Operation Cobra, to make the famous breakout from earlier slow fighting in the Normandy hedgerows against brilliant German Army Defensive fighting. Patton's Third Army simultaneously attacked west into Brittany, towards the Seine, and north, assisting in trapping several hundred thousand German soldiers in the Chambois pocket, between Falaise and Argentan, Orne.''
Patton had major faults as a military leader and they are well documented, but Patton's faults were only exceed by Bernard Montgomery's behavior (Montgomery was completely hated by both Ike and Patton and considered worthless as a general), though all 3 are considered great military leaders for their WWII era.
And your next assignment rivetcounter is to go figure, how a prissy little ugly Englishman could make that great military leaders list. Best Regards, John
Falaise gap wasn’t this closed by the Canadians because Patton’s Blitz across Europe was pitifully slow allowing 10’s thousand’s Germans to escape and in the end his superior leadership was incapable of closing the gap, as for your Kinder garden comments on Monty yes him Ike and who was the other Captain you mentioned? Did have there fallings out and I’m sure people like you where around to exaggerate and exacerbate the problem Ike’s plan on invasion was rejected where as Monty’s was executed perhaps that was what the problem was really about, imagine the temper tantrums Ike had when he was told that the little ugly blokes plan was going to be used and he was also going to lead “Operation overlord”
Talking of Ike wasn’t he the great leader who dismissed the German build up during “Wacht an Rine” saying the Germans don’t have that many divisions and locked himself away for 3 days at the start of the Ardennes offensive leaving an Army to fend for it’s self then latter claiming Skorzeny’s commandos where trying to kill him 300 miles from the front, Monty may have been ugly but he was never caught with his pants down
02-25-2010, 04:04 PM
#86
RE: Worst tank of WWII
I deliberately left “Market Garden” out as it’s un-defendable even before the troops left for this operation it was known by British inelegance that the 9th and 10th SS along with an Abtelung of Tigers had moved into the area but still they insisted on carrying on with the operation, there was plenty of hand bag swinging amongst the top brass sooner or latter one was going push the situation too far at the cost of the troops.
Antwerp couldn’t be opened before the banks of the estuary where cleared on the Belgian and Dutch coast lines these had a lot of costal batteries to be removed even though the Germans where cut off they still fought on, British and Canadian troops where given the task of removing this obstacle starting from the tip of Zeeland, British and Canadian troops also had the job of attacking the costal batteries in Belgium from the rear, these two operations are rarely ever talked about.
Antwerp couldn’t be opened before the banks of the estuary where cleared on the Belgian and Dutch coast lines these had a lot of costal batteries to be removed even though the Germans where cut off they still fought on, British and Canadian troops where given the task of removing this obstacle starting from the tip of Zeeland, British and Canadian troops also had the job of attacking the costal batteries in Belgium from the rear, these two operations are rarely ever talked about.
02-25-2010, 04:38 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: uhu
From Wikipedia:
''Conscription in the United States (also called compulsory military service or the draft) has been employed several times, usually during war but also during the nominal peace of the Cold War. The United States discontinued the draft in 1973, moving to an all-volunteer military force, thus there is currently no mandatory conscription.''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscri..._United_States
Regards
Uhu
From Wikipedia:
''Conscription in the United States (also called compulsory military service or the draft) has been employed several times, usually during war but also during the nominal peace of the Cold War. The United States discontinued the draft in 1973, moving to an all-volunteer military force, thus there is currently no mandatory conscription.''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscri..._United_States
Regards
Uhu
02-25-2010, 06:16 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
thanks heavyaslead,i've been reading about shermans & panthers on wikepedia but it's hard to find a difinative answer other than what you replied.noticed the merkiva has it's engine in the front.i would have took my chances with the nimble and well supplied (in comparison to the panther) sherman.at least we had air cover and fuel
02-25-2010, 06:58 PM
#89
RE: Worst tank of WWII
Is WWII actually over.......????? I'm 67 years old and was somewhere around two years old when this war was over...or supposed to be...??? Yet one thing that really gets under my skin is the continual "jabs" that seem to come from the european countrys all the time like how we seem to feel that we "WON" the war by ourselves................?????......"You never hear anyone here saying that"........I grew up with the understanding that this was accomplished by many countries combined effort to stop Germany and Japan from trying to take over most of the world.Being on an English forum for a while I was quite shocked on several occassions
when this very same thing poped up about the "USA thinking they won the war by ourselves" being some direct and some in an indirect maner.Now I'm no expert on WWII,but I'm also not a dummy and I can read the printed and doccumented history of what took place when and where during this war and who did or didn't do what.This did not sit well with me and I think I made one statement addresed to this and stated it was going to only be "one" and that this was out of place on a hobby forum.I found this very hard to swallow though and in a way it took away from the fact that I had allways thought of most of these countrys being our friends and all of us pulling for the same goal "A free world to live in".
Now being a tank forum and working on Tanks there is for sure past history going to be discussed about them.
Now if you want to really know about WWII and who started it and why.........It's all here on the internet at the click of a mouse.
I find it allmost as bad what has happened in some of these country's we were helping after the war as I did with the war itself.When I see someone make a post trying to take away from the USA some of the things it did during WWII to help others and this even even applys in today"s world,It gets under my skin.All one has to do is take a look at your ouwn country first .
I look at the united states in general and we only have a few posessions out of our 50 states (most of these consisting of a few small islands out in the pacific that I can think of right off hand that no one else wanted to begin with.) We had other places at times that was given back to the people of that particular country. "Philippines" "okinawa" "Panama Canal " are ones I can think of.So just what is it that this big Bad country has done to the rest of the world to end up with what seems to be so many other places resenting what we stand for....?????
Want some good reading
Look up these fine people and see what they did for the world..
Stalin........ Check this guy out....And people were crying in the street when he died.???
Hitler.......
Japan leaders at the start of the war....
China........
This should keep you busy for a little while.........
Also may want to have a little look at a small thing called the "LEN-LEASE" program and see who all was on the receiving
end of this little package and what all it involved.
The "Berlin Blockade"................This is something when you stop and think about it.Flying in food and supplies to take care of people who were just trying to kill us.????
END of story.......................BIGMIG
P.S. There was enough glory for all the brass during this war.............problem is some of them tried to caim some of it that did not earn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The only thing I can see the Americans took from europe when they left was some of the "women" and I'm sure there was some of them that wished they could have sent them back..............
when this very same thing poped up about the "USA thinking they won the war by ourselves" being some direct and some in an indirect maner.Now I'm no expert on WWII,but I'm also not a dummy and I can read the printed and doccumented history of what took place when and where during this war and who did or didn't do what.This did not sit well with me and I think I made one statement addresed to this and stated it was going to only be "one" and that this was out of place on a hobby forum.I found this very hard to swallow though and in a way it took away from the fact that I had allways thought of most of these countrys being our friends and all of us pulling for the same goal "A free world to live in".
Now being a tank forum and working on Tanks there is for sure past history going to be discussed about them.
Now if you want to really know about WWII and who started it and why.........It's all here on the internet at the click of a mouse.
I find it allmost as bad what has happened in some of these country's we were helping after the war as I did with the war itself.When I see someone make a post trying to take away from the USA some of the things it did during WWII to help others and this even even applys in today"s world,It gets under my skin.All one has to do is take a look at your ouwn country first .
I look at the united states in general and we only have a few posessions out of our 50 states (most of these consisting of a few small islands out in the pacific that I can think of right off hand that no one else wanted to begin with.) We had other places at times that was given back to the people of that particular country. "Philippines" "okinawa" "Panama Canal " are ones I can think of.So just what is it that this big Bad country has done to the rest of the world to end up with what seems to be so many other places resenting what we stand for....?????
Want some good reading
Look up these fine people and see what they did for the world..
Stalin........ Check this guy out....And people were crying in the street when he died.???
Hitler.......
Japan leaders at the start of the war....
China........
This should keep you busy for a little while.........
Also may want to have a little look at a small thing called the "LEN-LEASE" program and see who all was on the receiving
end of this little package and what all it involved.
The "Berlin Blockade"................This is something when you stop and think about it.Flying in food and supplies to take care of people who were just trying to kill us.????
END of story.......................BIGMIG
P.S. There was enough glory for all the brass during this war.............problem is some of them tried to caim some of it that did not earn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The only thing I can see the Americans took from europe when they left was some of the "women" and I'm sure there was some of them that wished they could have sent them back..............
02-26-2010, 04:04 AM
#92
RE: Worst tank of WWII
Big Mig, have you read what Pcomm1 writes on a daily basis his insults to every nation outside the US are appalling yet you say no one your side of the pond talks in this way and it’s all Europeans I think you need to take those blinkers off and start with your own people first, as the saying goes “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
02-26-2010, 08:51 AM
#93
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Big Mig, have you read what Pcomm1 writes on a daily basis his insults to every nation outside the US are appalling yet you say no one your side of the pond talks in this way and it’s all Europeans I think you need to take those blinkers off and start with your own people first, as the saying goes “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
Big Mig, have you read what Pcomm1 writes on a daily basis his insults to every nation outside the US are appalling yet you say no one your side of the pond talks in this way and it’s all Europeans I think you need to take those blinkers off and start with your own people first, as the saying goes “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
02-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
germantanker....start here: http://www.o5m6.de/index.html and click the "Foreign" links! LL also included enough food to stock Red Army Field kitchens for a full year..... and 15 million pairs of Army Boots!
02-26-2010, 06:43 PM
#96
RE: Worst tank of WWII
ORIGINAL: rivetcounter
Big Mig, have you read what Pcomm1 writes on a daily basis his insults to every nation outside the US are appalling yet you say no one your side of the pond talks in this way and it’s all Europeans I think you need to take those blinkers off and start with your own people first, as the saying goes “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
Big Mig, have you read what Pcomm1 writes on a daily basis his insults to every nation outside the US are appalling yet you say no one your side of the pond talks in this way and it’s all Europeans I think you need to take those blinkers off and start with your own people first, as the saying goes “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
Lend-lease well the Russians didn’t repay there debt and in 1947 the US called in the debt from England completely overturning the deal this almost bankrupted the country when England asked for extra time to pay off the debt they where told “NO” the country had to take loans from other courtiers these where paid off in 1998 or there about so who benefited there England with the weapons and the US with the money but you have to ask “what was the reasoning behind the foreclosure of the debt”
As for the women the US took from Europe which is fair play, have you ever seen “Band of Brothers” this brazenly portrays the paratroops looting the population of Europe.
Perry
02-26-2010, 10:38 PM
#98
RE: Worst tank of WWII
I never said that we did not have conscripts. I just stated a fact that within the first week after Pearl Harbor the number of volunteers. That total increased as time went on. As well as the draft being instituted. Many men signed up for a service so they did not just get drafted into the Army. The Navy and the Marines did not have a draft.
03-05-2010, 04:40 PM
#99
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
I'll have to disagree with the Ferdinands/elephant. Frankly the elephant was revamp of the fern, they added a mg34 and cupola. Even the fern was good when used at the back lines, they were just not a front line tank. The ferns would be the pre revamp with mg n what not, they were renamed elephant after they were altered.
I'll have to do a bit more reading before I put my opinion on the worst tank.
As for the draft, this is second hand information, but from what I was told, more people were drafted in ww2 than vietnam. Is this correct?
I'll have to do a bit more reading before I put my opinion on the worst tank.
As for the draft, this is second hand information, but from what I was told, more people were drafted in ww2 than vietnam. Is this correct?
03-05-2010, 07:41 PM
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RE: Worst tank of WWII
Grow up guys, WWII history is what it is and it is harsh. And debates about it today are fun & valuable academic exercises and may help all the know nothings to seek a greater understanding of those dark days.
The draft, rivetcounter, that is your issue and so what. But if your interested about 66% of the soldiers and sailors in the USA were drafted in WWII. And those young men went off to war to save Europe and the World, as willing Free Man and as Citizen Soldiers, to fight against being enslaved by the nutty Nat-Zee's and the Axis and the alleged superman race.
Again, go read Citizen Soldiers: The U. S. Army from the Normandy Beaches to the Bulge to the Surrender of Germany by Stephen E. Ambrose and get back to us with some knowledge and a better understanding of why that WWII Draft was different than say the Vietnam Era Draft in the late 1960's and of course that VN draft almost tore the USA apart.
But those two are very different draft animals Euro Dude.
As taught at West Point, Monty's mistakes caused the ETO war to go into the Spring of 1945. Ike didn't want to slaughter any more retreating, young, German soldiers in France, so he let them go.
The resulting total estimated 150 thousand combined casualties (German, Axis, Allied, USA, Civilian) from the Battle of the Bulge suggests, in hindsight, that was a poor, but charitable, command decision, as taught at West Point.
Crack a few books, there is nothing redeeming about WWII Germany. Heck ask any present day, educated, German National and they will tell you about the good that the USA did for them over the last 65 years by restoring their rights to be a free people, free economy and helping to restore their nation (bottom line: not controlled by or living in a Police State, big point dudes).
The USA government took no significant conquest spoils at wars end and that fact makes this nation unique amongst all other victors.
The Euro woman issue did happen, but it took 2 to make that happen and most got happily married, moved to the US or ended up with 1950 – 60's style alimony, living in the USA as citizens.
And a good old x-Royal Navy friend from the UK (he served in WWII) still complains about the WWII US Army Troops and the dating of young British women: calling the US troops over sexed, over paid and over there to this day.
Well, all I will say is put several million 19 years old from any nation on any tiny island for a year or two with British Women and the results just might be the same.
All my statement are based on the content, facts and truth taught openly, everyday, in fine colleges all over the USA.
Get up to speed with your education if you don't agree with my words, tell me why. Like why would your life be better now living under a Nat-Zee police state style government? Right.
I wonder how many of you Euro dudes would enjoy living in National Socialist Nat-Zee Germany, Imperial Japan or any of the other Axis Countries or Stalin's Soviet Union for that matter. Think about it.
So, say thank you USA and you all owe our "Greatest Generation" a big thank you, for their efforts in WWII. I have enjoyed knowing many WWII US Vets and while none stated they liked military service or combat, all stated Germany and Hitler needed to be destroyed along with the rest of the Axis participants. And hence the magic of the USA WWII military, those men and women were proud to have served and had total national support behind their efforts. And they saved the world from absolute evil. No debate on this point.
Any other interpretation of the USA's citizen armies attitude about the fight against the Axis Powers is just nut job WWII revisionist history. And far from any truth.
So say thank you to the USA and the Allies and or buzz off.
And again the worst tank is the one taking fatal hits.
John
The draft, rivetcounter, that is your issue and so what. But if your interested about 66% of the soldiers and sailors in the USA were drafted in WWII. And those young men went off to war to save Europe and the World, as willing Free Man and as Citizen Soldiers, to fight against being enslaved by the nutty Nat-Zee's and the Axis and the alleged superman race.
Again, go read Citizen Soldiers: The U. S. Army from the Normandy Beaches to the Bulge to the Surrender of Germany by Stephen E. Ambrose and get back to us with some knowledge and a better understanding of why that WWII Draft was different than say the Vietnam Era Draft in the late 1960's and of course that VN draft almost tore the USA apart.
But those two are very different draft animals Euro Dude.
As taught at West Point, Monty's mistakes caused the ETO war to go into the Spring of 1945. Ike didn't want to slaughter any more retreating, young, German soldiers in France, so he let them go.
The resulting total estimated 150 thousand combined casualties (German, Axis, Allied, USA, Civilian) from the Battle of the Bulge suggests, in hindsight, that was a poor, but charitable, command decision, as taught at West Point.
Crack a few books, there is nothing redeeming about WWII Germany. Heck ask any present day, educated, German National and they will tell you about the good that the USA did for them over the last 65 years by restoring their rights to be a free people, free economy and helping to restore their nation (bottom line: not controlled by or living in a Police State, big point dudes).
The USA government took no significant conquest spoils at wars end and that fact makes this nation unique amongst all other victors.
The Euro woman issue did happen, but it took 2 to make that happen and most got happily married, moved to the US or ended up with 1950 – 60's style alimony, living in the USA as citizens.
And a good old x-Royal Navy friend from the UK (he served in WWII) still complains about the WWII US Army Troops and the dating of young British women: calling the US troops over sexed, over paid and over there to this day.
Well, all I will say is put several million 19 years old from any nation on any tiny island for a year or two with British Women and the results just might be the same.
All my statement are based on the content, facts and truth taught openly, everyday, in fine colleges all over the USA.
Get up to speed with your education if you don't agree with my words, tell me why. Like why would your life be better now living under a Nat-Zee police state style government? Right.
I wonder how many of you Euro dudes would enjoy living in National Socialist Nat-Zee Germany, Imperial Japan or any of the other Axis Countries or Stalin's Soviet Union for that matter. Think about it.
So, say thank you USA and you all owe our "Greatest Generation" a big thank you, for their efforts in WWII. I have enjoyed knowing many WWII US Vets and while none stated they liked military service or combat, all stated Germany and Hitler needed to be destroyed along with the rest of the Axis participants. And hence the magic of the USA WWII military, those men and women were proud to have served and had total national support behind their efforts. And they saved the world from absolute evil. No debate on this point.
Any other interpretation of the USA's citizen armies attitude about the fight against the Axis Powers is just nut job WWII revisionist history. And far from any truth.
So say thank you to the USA and the Allies and or buzz off.
And again the worst tank is the one taking fatal hits.
John