the Wasp

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Guys, has Black Horse Models stopped selling inside the USA ?

I can't find their War Birds inside the USA, I was looking at their 64" Tomahawk or their 68" Corsair

thanks !!

Jim

rcjetflyer0718-RCU

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http://americanpioneerhobbies.com/index.html

oriole

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To Jim's point...No Warbirds Offered/Available on Website.

Oriole

rcjetflyer0718-RCU

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They have P51s and Spitfires in stock, aren't they warbirds?

oriole

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I'll give you that. Only Two Warbirds and the small .46 size. No selection.

the Wasp

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I just called Pioneer Hobbies, I was told they only have the Black Horse Spitfire and P-51, I believe the P-51 is a 60 size plane (glow), and the Spitfire is a 46 size,,

I was also told that there will be "no" Black Horse War Birds coming (to the USA) in the near future, he said something like "Black Horse holding back the decision to ship", ((as for me I am wondering if this has something to do with Black Horse's thoughts about what Trump is up to, as said "it's just a thought on my part"))..

boy this is very disappointing, I have a Zenoah 20 that has been modified for a Heli and I wish to put it in a Warbird (this engine is producing about 20% more power than a stock G20),

on the other hand, if you like and want a 60 size glow P-51 with flaps you can order one now for $145 from Pioneer

along with that low price of $145 and no Warbirds coming in you have to wonder ??

Jim

dmyers0403

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I was buying 50cc Black Horse products three plus years ago. They just stopped being available for the most part (with few exceptions) a couple of years ago well before Trump. Never found reason why. Good flyers but lightly built. Retracts were no good which made the price to high. When I had to add cost of replacement retracts they were no longer attractive to me. Could be why they lost out. Few left in inventory for a while.

Warbird AL

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Same here... they stopped exporting their larger warbirds to the US a few years ago..I was lucky and found someone with a large 109 in the back of their warehouse about 2 years ago..BH exports them to England and the rest of Europe..again has nothing to do with current election.. this was awhile ago. Their larger planes fly well, but the construction is fragile compared to let's say Top Flite birds. For example, the 50cc 109 I fly it with a G38 at 4000 ft elevation and it moves along very well. I had a DLE 55 in it at first but it was way overpowered imho..

dmyers0403

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My 90" Corsair is very fragile and difficult to Handel. Once you add engine, retracts etc. the weight builds up and it becomes very easy to punch thru the thin sheeting when handling. Great looking but fragil.
I would spend the same money on the stronger TF and HH planes.

the Wasp

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Thanks guys for the info, it helps knowing the BH planes are rather lightly made

so what about Phoenix Model's, are their planes light built too, they have a 63" span Kittyhawk, and a 70" span Corsair,

actually, if you watch Phoenix Model's videos and Black Horse videos you may (as I do) think the two companies are one in the same

thanks guys !!

Jim

Growler84

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I've been flying the 89" Wyvern for almost 3 years now and love it. Yes it is fragile and the gear were an immediate throw-away but it flies really well on a Rotomax 50cc electric motor. It is too bad they are not available any more, I picked mine up here in Vegas after it sat on the shelf at Hobby People for over a year...$385!

jescardin

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Problem with Black Horse model worlwide happened when they switched all the available models to tube joined half wings and removable canopy for access to batterias as all models could then be electric powered.

This production change brought a price increase of about a 20% which made the entire range overpriced.

In Europe there is no Black Horse models on Spain since 2 years ago and in Germany main distributor/shop closed last summer. Only RIPMAX in UK gives continues importing and distributing the full range and offering the new models. Not strange then than also USA reps gave up on Black Horse.

By the way I also love this brand and own a small Chipmunk and a JU-87 Stuka from them.

Best Regards.

drypipe

Black Horse Models is Dead in the U.S..... and to make things worse, it appears that Top Flite, Great Planes and Hangar 9 are slowly limiting production on all of their .60 Size Balsa ARF warbirds as well. Last night I emailed Horizon Hobby's Product Support and asked them if H9 will be developing any more .60 Balsa ARF Warbirds. I received a reply from Doug B. and he said : "The Hobby is moving away from wood ARFs in the .60 size because Foam Technology has advanced to such a degree that these Balsa Planes can be made from foam." He also said that there are now "less options for warbirds in .60 size lately and there are no plans for any H9 Balsa warbirds to be released before Christmas." Really ??..I think this is the same exact thinking coming from Hobbico because Top Flite and Great Planes have pulled back on producing more Balsa ARF' warbirds. I was hoping there would be a .60 size FW-190, to follow up on their Top Flite Giant Scale FW-190, but now I don't think this is going to happen. The Top Flite Giant P-40 is still around but Hobbico Pulled the Top Flite .60 size P-40 and the AT-6 Texan !
Then again, Sig Mfg. is having financial and structural issues, so you may See Seagull Models Back at Horizon.

I think Horizon's decision to switch from Balsa ARf warbirds to FMS/Dynam and Freewing Foam warbirds is Dumbing Down the Hobby.

tailskid

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Drypipe, I wish you were totally off base, but sadly, you are probably correct. Guess it looks like scratch building may make a comeback if you want a "smaller" warbird.

BobH

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It's called "Market forces". When a product sits on the shelf to long it gets discontinued. Such is the fate of many 60 sized wooden arf's. I'm not surprised in the least.. I've been doing this stuff for 50 years and have seen lots of things come an go..

the Wasp

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add the fact that they make a killing on foam so they are going that way

Jim

tailskid

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My hobby shop has a couple of them.....Duncan's Hobby shop, Phoenix, AZ. I saw a large Cub and a twin (Aero Commander) and three other ones......602) 347-5518

jerry

the Wasp

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drypipe
so you are saying these planes will all be electric ?? if so it looks like the engine manufacturers will be getting upset

Jim

drypipe

Those are Horizon Hobbies words not mine.

psiturbo

To chime in, as I have also talked to some of the distributors and am the owner of several models...

The Blackhorse line got hit witth the electric conversion move, almost all the airplanes that they have left are glow only and with major changes to be done to make them brushless compatible.

Some of their models regardless if lasercut or not, and scale, have manufacturing defects, parts that don't fit correctly during assembly. For example, on a P51 the internal ribs obstruct the installation of the fuel tank. The instructions don't mention anything about this, either install the tank at an angle, which is sloppy and not recommended, or cut one of the ribs so the tank is flush with the firewall exit. I ended cutting one of the front ribs, the first one from the firewall back, so the tank could fit. The tail on the P51 is a two piece, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are separate pieces, and they did not line up correctly, had to sand of some to make them fit flush. I did not notice the design, usually the fuselage extends all the way back, and then both stabilizers are added to the rear of the fuselage. In this design, its as if the tail is chopped off and needs to be glued with both controls. Once again I had to do a few mods to reinforce the tail, adding support structural stabs that connect both stabilizers.

The same issue when joining the wings, too much gap, had to sand a lot to minimize, as I could not get rid off the gap, and was tired of sanding. The cowl red color paint came off in one of the sections, so have to retouch that. The black center top stripe is off, not completely lined up with the fuselage, so it looks crooked. The wheel wells are weak and don't line up correctly, the tires are small and look toyish. Its not that bad, but as the details add up, at the end of the day I wish I would have bought a Phoenix, VQ, Hangar 9 or Great Planes warbird.


Also bought a Spitfire, and one of the wings did not come with the wheel mount area, it was wood panel and covering. I had to do significant modification, cut, do some surgery to be able to mount the wheel, landing gear. I called the company and they had no more Spitfires, so basically its purchasing left over discontinued models.

Unless the BH airplanes are sold cheap for a bargain prize, honestly think is better to spend the extra cash for at least the cheapest of the best, a Phoenix model arf. It may seem some money is saved, but then it all adds up in modifications, and trying to make the airplane acceptable for flying.

the Wasp

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Phoenix, Seagull and Black Horse all come out of (or did) the same factory

Jim

psiturbo

Naah, I have built several Phoenix airplanes, and they are always fine, the only minor issue is the usual covering. Have also built several Great Planes and Hangar 9 arfs, and assembly runs smoothly. There has been broken ribs, or cracked firewall, but its from shipment, item has been banged around, not the this part has a huge gap, or this other one does not fit...

Which using the heat gun will take care of it.

Just because is coming out of the same factory, (which do you have evidence about this?, or the usual I found it on the internet?) does not mean is the same QC.


I had a claim with Les Swabb tires because their tires were made at the same factory, Othsu company, as Falken. I went to the store and asked for Falken tires, and they installed their house brand, but no Falken logo anywhere. I asked the manager whats goin on, and they said the tires were installed with the logo facing in, which was not true. Les Swab even had a brochure with pictures of the company, and a magazine showing Falken were produced at the same place, a complete well designed scam.

I called Falken and told them the serial number, although they did confirm the production line from the same factory, there was no recording of such tire. I explained the situation to Falken rep and was told the tires sold to me were not Falken brand.

While the claim, which took six months, ran I used the Les Swab tires and they felt like driving on plastic. Finally got my money back after a report from the BBB, and a pending small claims court in CA. The manager was so mad, he accepted to give me the money cash through warehouse, behind the building, told me I was not allowed to enter through the main door. Once he gave me the money, warned me to stay away or he would call the cops.

Anyway, Installed the same design, same model, specs, but Falken genuine brand, the tires were way different, of much better handling and significant improvement. But if you put them side by side you could not tell which one was which besides the obvious missing logo on one of them.


Morale of story, just because is the same factory does not mean its the same product.

Am on my second BH ARF, and its "defect" after another which is, another hour, another three hours, it starts becoming a project, not a relaxing ARF build. I understand now why its cheaper, well the usual, you get what you pay for. And knowing that I call them, and were out of parts as they sold all their Spitfires, when they had claimed they had shelves of them, of light and dark green color, its just frustrating and buyer's remorse kicks badly.

ltc

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maukaonyx

Its nice to see some new planes on the market. I had just one BHM plane, the T-28, but I absolutely loved it.