Gene Barton P-51B
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Gene Barton P-51B
I'm finially getting around to building this Kit,, I bought this about 12-14 years ago and it's been waiting for the right time. Sorry it took so long Vic.
I'll have a few question if any here has built one of these as there is no book or plans really.
First issue is, I notice the Spinner size molded up is 5-1/8" not 5" like most available spinners are,, Not sure what I'll do here.
The canopy frame is broke so that will need some reapirs
Started by preping the 3/32" sheeting and gluing up the inner wing cores,, Outer panels are dry and need to be trimmed
I'll have a few question if any here has built one of these as there is no book or plans really.
First issue is, I notice the Spinner size molded up is 5-1/8" not 5" like most available spinners are,, Not sure what I'll do here.
The canopy frame is broke so that will need some reapirs
Started by preping the 3/32" sheeting and gluing up the inner wing cores,, Outer panels are dry and need to be trimmed
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Just got this quick reply to a couple questions I emailed to Mr. Barton about
I thought it was the same as the Aeroloft kit,, I think Vic told me that years ago,, I didn't think the kit was that old though,, I'll probably get the spinner id it matches right
This kit was from about 30 something years ago. I sold the kit about 20 years ago to areoloft I think. Good flying airplane with a laminar flow wing. Land HOT or crash.Thin wing. I do not make gear for this plane any more. I do have a spinner for it. It costs $75.00 plus shipping $7.00 in the US.The tail wheel retract I think was an old Golberg nose wheel steering retract. Good luck on finding that. Too long ago for my old mind could have been some thing before that.Cant remember. Thanks Gene Barton
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
I'm pretty sure the airplane was designed by Rick Lewis but I don't know if Rick or Gene did the molds for all the glass parts. I was working for Aeroloft back in the early '90s when they purchased the rights to both the P-51B and the big Skyraider that was also designed by Rick Lewis. I think Aeroloft have now sold off the Skyraider kit but they still offer the Mustang. I had one of the Mustang kits many years ago but never did built it. I use the term "kit" very loosely too! So far as I am aware there never has been any drawings or instructions offered with the airplane so you really need plenty of experience to tackle this one. That need for experience extends to flying the Mustang as well! I'm sure Vic can relate some of his experiences with flying the 'stang. It's definitely a good looking model when finished though so a worthwhile project if you are up to the challenge. I'm subscribed and looking forward to your progress.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
I built two of the Barton P-51Bs in the early 90s. Painted both as "U"VE HAD IT" John England plane from the 357th. I just spent the weekend at Warbirds Over The Rockies with Bud Anderson as our guest speaker. He had a lot of stories about the P-51-B with the Malcom hood.
I bet the Robart or Sierra retracts might work for the TF P-51.. I had a Webra Bully 35 on glow in both of them and retracts that Carlie Chambers made.
I got my two kits from Gene Barton. They flew great. Yes, they were not very forgiving, especially at 5000 feet where I fly, but not impossible. The were fun.
I also own the last of the folding wing Sky Raiders with Gene Barton custom retracts and folding wing. The Sky Raider was a joint project with Gene, Rick Lewis, Diego Lopez and Shane Craemer. Only five kits were made and I have the last one. My fuse is in primer and have not started on the wing. DO not know if I ever will.
Aeroloft sold the SkyRaider kit to Yellow Aircraft about a year ago. Wish I had a lighter foam wing for it. I think Diego won Top Gun with his and Gene won the US Scale Masters with the SKY RAIDERS.
SO much for a walk down memory lane.
Brian OMeara
I bet the Robart or Sierra retracts might work for the TF P-51.. I had a Webra Bully 35 on glow in both of them and retracts that Carlie Chambers made.
I got my two kits from Gene Barton. They flew great. Yes, they were not very forgiving, especially at 5000 feet where I fly, but not impossible. The were fun.
I also own the last of the folding wing Sky Raiders with Gene Barton custom retracts and folding wing. The Sky Raider was a joint project with Gene, Rick Lewis, Diego Lopez and Shane Craemer. Only five kits were made and I have the last one. My fuse is in primer and have not started on the wing. DO not know if I ever will.
Aeroloft sold the SkyRaider kit to Yellow Aircraft about a year ago. Wish I had a lighter foam wing for it. I think Diego won Top Gun with his and Gene won the US Scale Masters with the SKY RAIDERS.
SO much for a walk down memory lane.
Brian OMeara
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
I built mine many years ago, I can't remember exactly maybe 10-12 years, I built it really light, around 17lbs with a Moki 180, Spring Air Retracts and a B&B tail retract, a pain to setup and works only if you get it right. It flew very well, its last flight was at Prado field in Chino when it first opened up. I don't know for sure if I had mechanical failure or it had a high speed stall, It was mainly my fault as I made an abrupt decision during a turn, I have done that with other models but this one did not like it. Ray Harris built two of them and he did not have any issues with flying them and I agree with Gene, do not let it go too slow especially on landing but if you keep the model light it will not be an issue at all.
Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.
Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.
Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Did you guys use the Gene Barton spinner? if so was it a single bolt or like the old Zinger style with screws at the back plate? Got a picture??
Retracts??
I really like the simplicity of the Lado actuators on my p-47 withthe 630 series gear, but I do have an extra set of the 620 series, I was thinking the offset design would put the gear mounts in a thicker section of the wing
What size wheels? The Top flite runs 5" wheels, but I'm thinking 4-4.5" would be right for this one
any thoughts? TIA
Retracts??
I really like the simplicity of the Lado actuators on my p-47 withthe 630 series gear, but I do have an extra set of the 620 series, I was thinking the offset design would put the gear mounts in a thicker section of the wing
What size wheels? The Top flite runs 5" wheels, but I'm thinking 4-4.5" would be right for this one
any thoughts? TIA
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: fw190
I built mine many years ago, I can't remember exactly maybe 10-12 years, I built it really light, around 17lbs with a Moki 180, Spring Air Retracts and a B&B tail retract, a pain to setup and works only if you get it right. It flew very well, its last flight was at Prado field in Chino when it first opened up. I don't know for sure if I had mechanical failure or it had a high speed stall, It was mainly my fault as I made an abrupt decision during a turn, I have done that with other models but this one did not like it. Ray Harris built two of them and he did not have any issues with flying them and I agree with Gene, do not let it go too slow especially on landing but if you keep the model light it will not be an issue at all.
Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.
Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
I built mine many years ago, I can't remember exactly maybe 10-12 years, I built it really light, around 17lbs with a Moki 180, Spring Air Retracts and a B&B tail retract, a pain to setup and works only if you get it right. It flew very well, its last flight was at Prado field in Chino when it first opened up. I don't know for sure if I had mechanical failure or it had a high speed stall, It was mainly my fault as I made an abrupt decision during a turn, I have done that with other models but this one did not like it. Ray Harris built two of them and he did not have any issues with flying them and I agree with Gene, do not let it go too slow especially on landing but if you keep the model light it will not be an issue at all.
Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.
Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
My Old Crow at the warbirds Over The Rockies was a Dave Platt kit that I built about 1987. I flew it in the Masters in St Louis about 1988 .
Had a Super Tigre 3000 in it on glow with an OS carb.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: Bill Jennings
G'Day Scale.
What motor are you going to use?
Regards.
Bill
G'Day Scale.
What motor are you going to use?
Regards.
Bill
I did a little playing around tonight, the wing panels are rough sanded and I'll be ready to join them after a little more sanding to fit. I looked at the plans Vic gave me and laid out the Robart 622- gear for the Top Flite kit. they look like they will work fine, and actually the 5" wheels are closer to scale size than the 4.5" I guess. Looks like the wing is plenty thick where they will mount,, the 630 series gear would be a much tighter tighter fit if they fit at all. Looks like I'll go pneumatic with this one,, I have the UP2 valve anyway. Robart tail gear should fit well too
Gluing up the stab tonight, I need to round up some thicker balsa stock and some aircraft ply, Unfortunately not many well stocked hobby stores near by me.. I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
I don't know if those gears will fit, I recall a very thin wing specially at the leading edge, you will also need some forward rake.
Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.
http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.
http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
Sorry man we could not do that anymore either, its been 3-4 years now. What I really miss is picking out exactly what I need for wood densities. []
#14
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: fw190
I don't know if those gears will fit, I recall a very thin wing specially at the leading edge, you will also need some forward rake.
Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.
http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
I don't know if those gears will fit, I recall a very thin wing specially at the leading edge, you will also need some forward rake.
Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.
http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
I'll pull one of the 630s out of the p-47 and see if I can get it forward enough to the pivot point shown on the plans. even so, my concern is not having very much surface area of foam to attach too near the LE. reinforcing with ply is a great idea. I actually prefer using them because I know I can convert them to electric.
The 620 series is actual way thinner at the pivot point that regular configured gear. It will fit in that area of the wing., The cantilever design pushes the mounting flanges further aft,, I should be able to angle them some. whether it enough to prevent easy nose-overs??? I'll do a mock up and take a pic..
Hope all is well back home,,, Thanks
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: fw190
Sorry man we could not do that anymore either, its been 3-4 years now. What I really miss is picking out exactly what I need for wood densities. []
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
Who'd have thought we'd be telling stories of the good 'ole days
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Well I changed my mind again,,
I think I will go with the 630 gear, they look like they'll fit just fine,, and the weigh about 3 oz less per gear, it will take less wood to mount them saving more weight, Plus I can use the Lados actuators, No Air, Win Win Win Win.
I think I will go with the 630 gear, they look like they'll fit just fine,, and the weigh about 3 oz less per gear, it will take less wood to mount them saving more weight, Plus I can use the Lados actuators, No Air, Win Win Win Win.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Nice to see someone else with a Revolution 50R in a mustang we have two of them in Mustangs one flying currently and one still in the building stages to be finished next summer. I seen you have the Cooling Fan mounted on yours, we have chosen not to use them on ours the engine seems to have no issues with heat after baffling good luck with yours.
Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.
Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
Well, I'm a Carpenter/Cabinetmaker by Trade,, so I used Tightbond Carpernter's Glue,, Like always
Well, I'm a Carpenter/Cabinetmaker by Trade,, so I used Tightbond Carpernter's Glue,, Like always
I have always thought that the more diffiult a glue is to apply the better it is.
Iam about to sheet some 48" panels. I know that these questions sound simple but why not ask. Did you apply a thin film to both the balsa and the foam or did you just pour a pattern without spreading it out? How long did you leave the panels in the cradles?
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Ya know I used to use epoxy, and have used contact with mixed results too. But then a buddy I was racing and building Quickies with in the 90's showed me he was using wood glue, I've used it since then
I use a plastic spreader, apply a medium to thin layer to the foam only, then I set the skin in the shuck and push the wet foam skin down to the balsa, I move it around a little to get the glue to spread around on the skin. when you do it a few times you get the feel for how much glue you need and whether it's making good contact or not. Do the same for the other side. Weight them down and wait. You can see I used clamps for the smaller cores, for the main wing panels I used about 200lbs of ceramic tiles I've had sitting around.
I let it set up over night to 24 hours, Now some times if you've had to use a lot of glue to fill voids in the foam it will take longer. These cores have been bouncing around for 25-30 years so they are not in perfect shape,, some extra glue was needed to fill voids. As a result when I pulled them out of the cradles 12-14 ours later they still felt a little damp,, you can feel the moisture content coming through the sheeting. That why you see the one wing still in the shucks with the file folder boxes,, I let it sit another day before playing with it.
good luck
I use a plastic spreader, apply a medium to thin layer to the foam only, then I set the skin in the shuck and push the wet foam skin down to the balsa, I move it around a little to get the glue to spread around on the skin. when you do it a few times you get the feel for how much glue you need and whether it's making good contact or not. Do the same for the other side. Weight them down and wait. You can see I used clamps for the smaller cores, for the main wing panels I used about 200lbs of ceramic tiles I've had sitting around.
I let it set up over night to 24 hours, Now some times if you've had to use a lot of glue to fill voids in the foam it will take longer. These cores have been bouncing around for 25-30 years so they are not in perfect shape,, some extra glue was needed to fill voids. As a result when I pulled them out of the cradles 12-14 ours later they still felt a little damp,, you can feel the moisture content coming through the sheeting. That why you see the one wing still in the shucks with the file folder boxes,, I let it sit another day before playing with it.
good luck
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
ORIGINAL: pilotx
Nice to see someone else with a Revolution 50R in a mustang we have two of them in Mustangs one flying currently and one still in the building stages to be finished next summer. I seen you have the Cooling Fan mounted on yours, we have chosen not to use them on ours the engine seems to have no issues with heat after baffling good luck with yours.
Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.
Nice to see someone else with a Revolution 50R in a mustang we have two of them in Mustangs one flying currently and one still in the building stages to be finished next summer. I seen you have the Cooling Fan mounted on yours, we have chosen not to use them on ours the engine seems to have no issues with heat after baffling good luck with yours.
Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.
I've read both good and bad about this motor and using the fan, If I can go without the fan that would be great, I would mind seeing more pictures of your baffling and venting
thanks
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Glued the panels together last night and started the process of transferring the flap/aileron and wheel wells from the planes, I chose to join the panels before I start cutting anything. I jigged them up and clamped them to the edge of the work table to get them nice and straight.
Anyone know of a nice 4-1/2" to 4-3/4" wheel?? The 5" just seem a little big
Anyone know of a nice 4-1/2" to 4-3/4" wheel?? The 5" just seem a little big
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
Nice going. This bird sound like the Sig P51 I had in the 90s. Same unforgiving flying characteristic.
How ever I love foam wings, hate gluing ribs one at a time, sucks big time. Foam is so easy to work with I can`t figure out why some folks cant work it.
But I usually fill any voids with good old fashion dry wall Spackle. Sand with 220 when dry, make my channels for wires insert 3/8 paper tubing I make up with wood dowels, then sheet using carpenters glue. That way no cutting of channels after sheeting.
But everyone does it a little different, its still easier than gluing ribs and you also get a far better wheel well to work with.
How ever I love foam wings, hate gluing ribs one at a time, sucks big time. Foam is so easy to work with I can`t figure out why some folks cant work it.
But I usually fill any voids with good old fashion dry wall Spackle. Sand with 220 when dry, make my channels for wires insert 3/8 paper tubing I make up with wood dowels, then sheet using carpenters glue. That way no cutting of channels after sheeting.
But everyone does it a little different, its still easier than gluing ribs and you also get a far better wheel well to work with.
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RE: Gene Barton P-51B
[/quote]
Glad to hear,,
I've read both good and bad about this motor and using the fan, If I can go without the fan that would be great, I would mind seeing more pictures of your baffling and venting
thanks
[/quote]
Here is a link to the first build from my shop done by my friend same Revolution 50R ihe has cleaned it up a bit from what you see here hope this helps..
oh post #1458
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...9/key_/tm.htm#