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Gene Barton P-51B

Old 09-26-2011, 01:57 PM
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Default Gene Barton P-51B

I'm finially getting around to building this Kit,, I bought this about 12-14 years ago and it's been waiting for the right time. Sorry it took so long Vic.
I'll have a few question if any here has built one of these as there is no book or plans really.

First issue is, I notice the Spinner size molded up is 5-1/8" not 5" like most available spinners are,, Not sure what I'll do here.
The canopy frame is broke so that will need some reapirs

Started by preping the 3/32" sheeting and gluing up the inner wing cores,, Outer panels are dry and need to be trimmed

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Old 09-26-2011, 03:03 PM
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All Day Dan
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Scale, what did you use to bond the sheeting to the cores? Dan.
Old 09-26-2011, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Well, I'm a Carpenter/Cabinetmaker by Trade,, so I used Tightbond Carpernter's Glue,, Like always
Old 09-26-2011, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Just got this quick reply to a couple questions I emailed to Mr. Barton about

This kit was from about 30 something years ago. I sold the kit about 20 years ago to areoloft I think. Good flying airplane with a laminar flow wing. Land HOT or crash.Thin wing. I do not make gear for this plane any more. I do have a spinner for it. It costs $75.00 plus shipping $7.00 in the US.The tail wheel retract I think was an old Golberg nose wheel steering retract. Good luck on finding that. Too long ago for my old mind could have been some thing before that.Cant remember. Thanks Gene Barton
I thought it was the same as the Aeroloft kit,, I think Vic told me that years ago,, I didn't think the kit was that old though,, I'll probably get the spinner id it matches right
Old 09-26-2011, 05:45 PM
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Chad Veich
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

I'm pretty sure the airplane was designed by Rick Lewis but I don't know if Rick or Gene did the molds for all the glass parts. I was working for Aeroloft back in the early '90s when they purchased the rights to both the P-51B and the big Skyraider that was also designed by Rick Lewis. I think Aeroloft have now sold off the Skyraider kit but they still offer the Mustang. I had one of the Mustang kits many years ago but never did built it. I use the term "kit" very loosely too! So far as I am aware there never has been any drawings or instructions offered with the airplane so you really need plenty of experience to tackle this one. That need for experience extends to flying the Mustang as well! I'm sure Vic can relate some of his experiences with flying the 'stang. It's definitely a good looking model when finished though so a worthwhile project if you are up to the challenge. I'm subscribed and looking forward to your progress.
Old 09-26-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

I built two of the Barton P-51Bs in the early 90s. Painted both as "U"VE HAD IT" John England plane from the 357th. I just spent the weekend at Warbirds Over The Rockies with Bud Anderson as our guest speaker. He had a lot of stories about the P-51-B with the Malcom hood.

I bet the Robart or Sierra retracts might work for the TF P-51.. I had a Webra Bully 35 on glow in both of them and retracts that Carlie Chambers made.

I got my two kits from Gene Barton. They flew great. Yes, they were not very forgiving, especially at 5000 feet where I fly, but not impossible. The were fun.

I also own the last of the folding wing Sky Raiders with Gene Barton custom retracts and folding wing. The Sky Raider was a joint project with Gene, Rick Lewis, Diego Lopez and Shane Craemer. Only five kits were made and I have the last one. My fuse is in primer and have not started on the wing. DO not know if I ever will.

Aeroloft sold the SkyRaider kit to Yellow Aircraft about a year ago. Wish I had a lighter foam wing for it. I think Diego won Top Gun with his and Gene won the US Scale Masters with the SKY RAIDERS.

SO much for a walk down memory lane.
Brian OMeara
Old 09-26-2011, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

I built mine many years ago, I can't remember exactly maybe 10-12 years, I built it really light, around 17lbs with a Moki 180, Spring Air Retracts and a B&B tail retract, a pain to setup and works only if you get it right. It flew very well, its last flight was at Prado field in Chino when it first opened up. I don't know for sure if I had mechanical failure or it had a high speed stall, It was mainly my fault as I made an abrupt decision during a turn, I have done that with other models but this one did not like it. Ray Harris built two of them and he did not have any issues with flying them and I agree with Gene, do not let it go too slow especially on landing but if you keep the model light it will not be an issue at all.

Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.

Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
Old 09-27-2011, 04:27 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Did you guys use the Gene Barton spinner? if so was it a single bolt or like the old Zinger style with screws at the back plate? Got a picture??

Retracts??
I really like the simplicity of the Lado actuators on my p-47 withthe 630 series gear, but I do have an extra set of the 620 series, I was thinking the offset design would put the gear mounts in a thicker section of the wing

What size wheels? The Top flite runs 5" wheels, but I'm thinking 4-4.5" would be right for this one

any thoughts? TIA
Old 09-27-2011, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


ORIGINAL: fw190

I built mine many years ago, I can't remember exactly maybe 10-12 years, I built it really light, around 17lbs with a Moki 180, Spring Air Retracts and a B&B tail retract, a pain to setup and works only if you get it right. It flew very well, its last flight was at Prado field in Chino when it first opened up. I don't know for sure if I had mechanical failure or it had a high speed stall, It was mainly my fault as I made an abrupt decision during a turn, I have done that with other models but this one did not like it. Ray Harris built two of them and he did not have any issues with flying them and I agree with Gene, do not let it go too slow especially on landing but if you keep the model light it will not be an issue at all.

Really is the best looking B mustang, wish it was a little bigger.

Hey Brian, was the Old Crow in WOTR a Gene Barton P51B? I am thinking it was built from the kit.
Vic:
My Old Crow at the warbirds Over The Rockies was a Dave Platt kit that I built about 1987. I flew it in the Masters in St Louis about 1988 .
Had a Super Tigre 3000 in it on glow with an OS carb.
Old 09-27-2011, 03:51 PM
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Bill Jennings
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

G'Day Scale.
What motor are you going to use?

Regards.
Bill
Old 09-27-2011, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

ORIGINAL: Bill Jennings

G'Day Scale.
What motor are you going to use?

Regards.
Bill
Still up in the air on that, I have a NIB DLE30, but I think I want something 35-40cc, I was leaning towards a ZDZ 40 RE, but then I saw the PTE36 and I like the early reviews of that motor too, it's also rear carb, rear exhaust,, I also toyed with the idea of setting it up for electric power but??? I'm not a big EP guy. I actually also have a revolution 50 that I bought for the top flite kit I have,, that would really move this plane a long, maybe I'll break it out and see how it fits, kinda over kill I think,, we'll see

I did a little playing around tonight, the wing panels are rough sanded and I'll be ready to join them after a little more sanding to fit. I looked at the plans Vic gave me and laid out the Robart 622- gear for the Top Flite kit. they look like they will work fine, and actually the 5" wheels are closer to scale size than the 4.5" I guess. Looks like the wing is plenty thick where they will mount,, the 630 series gear would be a much tighter tighter fit if they fit at all. Looks like I'll go pneumatic with this one,, I have the UP2 valve anyway. Robart tail gear should fit well too

Gluing up the stab tonight, I need to round up some thicker balsa stock and some aircraft ply, Unfortunately not many well stocked hobby stores near by me.. I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.

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Old 09-27-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

I don't know if those gears will fit, I recall a very thin wing specially at the leading edge, you will also need some forward rake.

Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.

http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
Old 09-27-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.


Sorry man we could not do that anymore either, its been 3-4 years now. What I really miss is picking out exactly what I need for wood densities. []
Old 09-28-2011, 03:41 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


ORIGINAL: fw190

I don't know if those gears will fit, I recall a very thin wing specially at the leading edge, you will also need some forward rake.

Here is how I did my foam wing on my fw190 and the B-stang. The B-stang did not survive the crash at it was totally destroyed but my friend Todd Burley is still flying my 190D9 that is probably going on 400 flights.

http://www.vicrc.com/foamwing.htm
I remember us taking about retracts being an issue,, now you got me thinking again,,,

I'll pull one of the 630s out of the p-47 and see if I can get it forward enough to the pivot point shown on the plans. even so, my concern is not having very much surface area of foam to attach too near the LE. reinforcing with ply is a great idea. I actually prefer using them because I know I can convert them to electric.

The 620 series is actual way thinner at the pivot point that regular configured gear. It will fit in that area of the wing., The cantilever design pushes the mounting flanges further aft,, I should be able to angle them some. whether it enough to prevent easy nose-overs??? I'll do a mock up and take a pic..

Hope all is well back home,,, Thanks
Old 09-28-2011, 03:45 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

ORIGINAL: fw190
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
I miss the days when I could drive down to Hawaiian Gardens and stock up on anything I needed.
Sorry man we could not do that anymore either, its been 3-4 years now. What I really miss is picking out exactly what I need for wood densities. []
I'm suprissed they lasted that long, things being they way the have been in the hobby and the economy..

Who'd have thought we'd be telling stories of the good 'ole days
Old 09-28-2011, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Well I changed my mind again,,
I think I will go with the 630 gear, they look like they'll fit just fine,, and the weigh about 3 oz less per gear, it will take less wood to mount them saving more weight, Plus I can use the Lados actuators, No Air, Win Win Win Win.

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Old 09-28-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Did a little mock up of the revolution 50,, Fit completely withing the cowl area,, I may have to just go ahead and use it,, I could always throttle back
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Nice to see someone else with a Revolution 50R in a mustang we have two of them in Mustangs one flying currently and one still in the building stages to be finished next summer. I seen you have the Cooling Fan mounted on yours, we have chosen not to use them on ours the engine seems to have no issues with heat after baffling good luck with yours.

Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.

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Old 10-01-2011, 04:10 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

Well, I'm a Carpenter/Cabinetmaker by Trade,, so I used Tightbond Carpernter's Glue,, Like always
Ihave sheeted using Southern Sorghum and Gorilla glue and have gotten good results. Iused 3M spray adhesive this last time, and it did not work very well. It was a Spitfire where the balsa trailing edge extended past the straight cut foam about a couple of inches so that the elliptical shape could be cut in. The trailing edge separated and started to separate over the foam. I followed the directions on the can. In desperation, I poured a slather of Titebond into the wing and clamped it down. It worked. I don't know why Inever thought about a wood glue holding wood parts together as a good choice. Duh.

I have always thought that the more diffiult a glue is to apply the better it is.

Iam about to sheet some 48" panels. I know that these questions sound simple but why not ask. Did you apply a thin film to both the balsa and the foam or did you just pour a pattern without spreading it out? How long did you leave the panels in the cradles?

Old 10-01-2011, 04:43 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Ya know I used to use epoxy, and have used contact with mixed results too. But then a buddy I was racing and building Quickies with in the 90's showed me he was using wood glue, I've used it since then

I use a plastic spreader, apply a medium to thin layer to the foam only, then I set the skin in the shuck and push the wet foam skin down to the balsa, I move it around a little to get the glue to spread around on the skin. when you do it a few times you get the feel for how much glue you need and whether it's making good contact or not. Do the same for the other side. Weight them down and wait. You can see I used clamps for the smaller cores, for the main wing panels I used about 200lbs of ceramic tiles I've had sitting around.

I let it set up over night to 24 hours, Now some times if you've had to use a lot of glue to fill voids in the foam it will take longer. These cores have been bouncing around for 25-30 years so they are not in perfect shape,, some extra glue was needed to fill voids. As a result when I pulled them out of the cradles 12-14 ours later they still felt a little damp,, you can feel the moisture content coming through the sheeting. That why you see the one wing still in the shucks with the file folder boxes,, I let it sit another day before playing with it.

good luck
Old 10-01-2011, 05:00 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


ORIGINAL: pilotx

Nice to see someone else with a Revolution 50R in a mustang we have two of them in Mustangs one flying currently and one still in the building stages to be finished next summer. I seen you have the Cooling Fan mounted on yours, we have chosen not to use them on ours the engine seems to have no issues with heat after baffling good luck with yours.

Here is a pic of Mine in progress no baffling installed yet.

Glad to hear,,
I've read both good and bad about this motor and using the fan, If I can go without the fan that would be great, I would mind seeing more pictures of your baffling and venting

thanks
Old 10-01-2011, 05:07 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Glued the panels together last night and started the process of transferring the flap/aileron and wheel wells from the planes, I chose to join the panels before I start cutting anything. I jigged them up and clamped them to the edge of the work table to get them nice and straight.

Anyone know of a nice 4-1/2" to 4-3/4" wheel?? The 5" just seem a little big
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Nice going. This bird sound like the Sig P51 I had in the 90s. Same unforgiving flying characteristic.
How ever I love foam wings, hate gluing ribs one at a time, sucks big time. Foam is so easy to work with I can`t figure out why some folks cant work it.
But I usually fill any voids with good old fashion dry wall Spackle. Sand with 220 when dry, make my channels for wires insert 3/8 paper tubing I make up with wood dowels, then sheet using carpenters glue. That way no cutting of channels after sheeting.
But everyone does it a little different, its still easier than gluing ribs and you also get a far better wheel well to work with.
Old 10-01-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B


[/quote]
Glad to hear,,
I've read both good and bad about this motor and using the fan, If I can go without the fan that would be great, I would mind seeing more pictures of your baffling and venting

thanks
[/quote]


Here is a link to the first build from my shop done by my friend same Revolution 50R ihe has cleaned it up a bit from what you see here hope this helps..
oh post #1458

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...9/key_/tm.htm#

Old 10-12-2011, 05:37 AM
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Default RE: Gene Barton P-51B

Moving along slowly the last week,,, I did manage to get the LE, TE and wing tips on,, next step is to fiish marking and cut the Ailerons, Flaps. and servo pockets.

Had to mock it up just to see
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