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  1. #1
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    New airframe idea - Flying runway

    The concept for this airframe comes from the combat flight simulator: "Ace Combat 6: Fires of liberation". The "plane" (don't know if you can still call it that when it's that big), called the "Aigaion", is basically a flying airport. Imagine the idea of a carrier, but in the sky and your getting warmer. I know that we're talking about making this out of coro, but I would eventually like to see this model get big enough to land .30 size SPADs on it during flight (if anyone else is that crazy ) Feel free to build one yourself, I just want to hear the community's thoughts on it before I graduate my training and move up to this.
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    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  2. #2
    draftman1's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Hey, thats crazy cool! Im sure you could make that fly but trying to land on it while its flying? that would be pretty dificult. but it would be pretty cool! man you have turned spad crazy havnt you!! thats good, always having new ideas. there is a part of spads I didnt tell you. rule number one; anything is possible with spads, rule two; if you thunk it, you must build it! rule three, see rule number 2!! he he he
    RCCA #913
    building spads since 12-2007

  3. #3

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    I would love to try to land on it [>:]

    The worst case would be some prop strike on the rear landing deck

    Dan
    Coro fly like balsa...
    But it crash so much better!!!
    aeromaskou.com/forum
    The first french SPAD Forum

  4. #4

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    MMMM What a sight that would be..
    Right after a spectacular crash, the pilot yelled out \'\'Channel 35 clear!

  5. #5
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    True, but perhaps a thin layer of ply or balsa wood could protect the runway. After I get off trainers I'm gonna do a smaller prototype, Prolly 56" w.s. or so. If you notice 'tho, the game's model is jet propelled; how best to convert this to a multi-prop? Maybe I can built a custom ducted fan setup. Drafter: this plan has been a goal of mine for awhile now (about 1-2 years), but I originally wanted to make it out of balsa, and that may be the end result, but at first: this one's gonna be a spad. I have other ideas/plans, but for now I'm gonna focus on this guy because the overall design seems pretty stable. Appears to my virgin eyes to be a decent step up from trainers, at least for me, but I'll let Drafter be the judge of that since he's my instructor.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  6. #6
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Dude, already been done....   http://images2.fanpop.com/images/pho...0-1280-800.jpg  Just messin with ya. 

  7. #7
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    lawl, nice one
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  8. #8
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Hi BuiltNotBought
    Once you learn more about RC flying you will realize how difficult it is to hit or land at a particular spot. Our grass runway is about 75 yards wide and about 150 yards long. You would be amazed how often people miss the whole runway during a landing. Or run into a tree that is out there for everyone to see. Mark a spot on the field and see if you can land on it.

  9. #9
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Thanks for the tip Villa.

    Yeah, drafter took me out and put me on a trainer. The field there is (correct me if I'm mistaken) about 30' wide or so, and I had to use a lot of rudder to fix my final approach and get that thing somewhere on the tarmac. However, I am willing to let someone else crash into it if they're crazy enough to try it. Heck, we're all a little crazy, but we're pilots (in some fashion or another) so we have to be a little crazy I'm taking this airframe seriously enough to make sure it's built and looks/flies good, but I don't want to take it so seriously that I get angry if someone crashes into it, I personally think that if the first guy to try to land on it crashes it and I have to do a complete rebuild; then that's just plain funny. I'll enjoy building it, and how many people can say they witnessed an r/c, in-flight landing? Whether my plane crashes or not, I had fun and that's what really matters. Don't get me wrong though, any tips/information I can get from more experienced guys is very appreciated. I just want to let you know that I'm not concerned about losing an airship.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  10. #10
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    I've changed my mind. Since .40 seems to be the most common airframe size for SPADs then that's what I'll make the scale of this airship for. If I am mistaken in this assumption, please inform me. Also, is this to lofty of a first goal for someone as inexperienced as me? Should I maybe built smaller projects before working on this one?
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  11. #11

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Hey this sounds like a great idea.... What I was thinking was to get this to work, you would need something like a big wing with a twin tail rudder and a very wide fuse.... The plane would try to land between the wing and the tail somehow.... Maybe during winter I can get around to building something like this and have my ST90 power it.... Then the best would be to try and land a pbf electric or something like that !!! Something like a 2m wing and 60cm wide fuse at the back.... It would look something like the Antonov AN225 and the plane would be piggy back on the fuse and also land there !!!!

  12. #12
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Great thinking cosmo, be sure to post pics! I would really like to see a prototype built, as for me though I think I wanna stay as close as I can to the reference photos posted above. Maybe I can use the parts of the fuse that hang out behind the lowest strip as rudders/stabilizers. Getting in-flight landings is something I'll worry about later, I first want to get a smaller prototype built and flying. That way I just have to scale up and tweak.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  13. #13
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Don't know what you guys are smoking but I'm just a bit peeved that you don't seem to share.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  14. #14
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    What do you mean Clean? I'd be more than happy to share any thoughts/pictures/ideas/plans that I have, but right now this airframe is just a thought. I decided to post this idea up and maybe it'll inspire other people. I wanna always contribute to the community, but I'm not sure what you're saying. Please help me understand what you mean.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  15. #15

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    I haven't built anything, got no coro, got no time, got no space... I have my hangar full of planes I need to crash and no time to crash them.....

  16. #16
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Evidently Sarcasm hasn't made it over the Continental Divide yet?

    Look, it's ok to dream about things but sooner or later reality will sit in. Even if you could build a structure large enough, light enough and strong enough to hold together AND get it airborne AND said structure could actually hold up to not only the weight of another aircraft but the extra drag and aysemtric loads caused by having another aircraft on top of the 'Carrier' you'd still come up with the practical limitations of having a small aircraft trying to land on a large aircraft while both are being controlled from a fixed point on the ground. I suppose the next suggestion would be to put live feed cameras on both aircraft so the pilot could get visual from above the Carrier with hopes it would be enough for a successful docking. You'd probably want the 3D option of that to make it practical. So there's more weight and expense although this much IS possible.

    I think in the end you'll be better off just building a look alike scale ship and be happy if that flys. I do not think that current materials available to us, or anybody at this time for that matter, would allow you to build a true 'Carrier' size ship even for itty bitty airplanes. Such things are the realms of pre-pubescents or overly rich eccentrics. Again, feel free to dream away.

    I'd suggest the drone ships be electric and not glow, you will need the 3D live feed vision and as you'll want long straight flights for 'Docking' maybe GPS and autopilot controls for the Carrier AND wouldn't hurt for the drones leaving you only adjustments in speed and relationship.

    Now, after reading all that, I say you're living on 'High Hopes.. ' :

    Youtube link High HopesYoutube link

    Another dream, goes up in smoke
    HUH!
    And so, fire me up, another toke
    Yeah, I'm commin' on
    I've got master plans, by the dozens
    A-flashin' thru my brain, when I get buzzin'
    (Whoa) Suddenly, there gone
    Ohhh, the inspiration, runnin' thru your head
    Instant stimulation
    Oh, your runnin' on
    (Whoo)
    You got........
    HIGH HOPES (grunt)
    And their up in smoke
    Up all night, tweakin' every detail
    The way I've got it, this could never fail
    HEY! This could be the big one
    HIGH HOPES
    Come and go, so high
    But commin' down, fade away and die
    HIGH HOPES
    I got them, more than a dream
    They all get wasted
    (Yeah)
    Ohhh, the inspiration, runnin' thru your head
    Instant stimulation
    Your runnin' on
    OH!
    You got..............HIGH HOPES
    Your livin' on
    HIGH HOPES
    (WHOO!)
    HIGH HOPES
    Oh yeah
    But they're wasted
    Hey
    {guitar solo}
    (Watch it............. grunt)
    (Now listen)
    All that talk, is gettin' nuthin' done
    Ain't it hard to move, when your body's numb
    Put it off..... another day
    HIGH HOPES
    Come and goin' so high
    And commin' down, fade away and die
    HIGH HOPES
    They're nuthin' more than a dream
    They all get wasted (yeah)
    Ohhh, the inspiration, runnin' thru your head
    Instant stimulation
    They're givin' you
    OH!............ you got
    Welllll Oh,
    HIGH HOPES

    Sammy Hagar

    Not necessarily an insult, less you wanna take it that way.

    Clean
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  17. #17
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Maybe I was a bit cryptic in the last reply? I don't think you will successfully be able to make a large enough 'Carrier' ship to land Fighter ships on with present technology let alone actually accomplish this rather difficult task. Not from ground point view and if not, then technology is the problem there as well though not as insurmountable.

    You should be able to construct a scaled down version of the 'Carrier' craft just for flying sake.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  18. #18

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    I don't think you can build someting looking like that, but what about building a delta/pizza box with a .90 size engine about 2m/80" wingspan and then landing a foamie on top of it ?

    That is doable right ?? A foamie weighs only about 400g, I just need some coro, got the engine and servos, then I would need someone crazy enough to land a foamy on it....
    I think a delta or pbf would fly really slow on the prop, then the foamy needs only to crash onto the delta/pbf

  19. #19
    Clean's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    I've heard of a guy with a HUGE powered glider come up under another 2 meter glider and catch it on his plane, then release it later but this huge foam glider flew about 25 mph tops. It was pretty cool to watch him launch it. He'd start the engine, put the transmitter down on the ground, pick up the plane and then use his foot to push the throttle forward. Then he'd back up about 20 steps run and toss the plane and reach forward to grab the controller. The darn thing was so big it took trips to get it to the field. Really just one big hunk of blue styrofoam. This guy was one of those pilots though, he could do anything if he could think of it. I don't know if he still flys though he was slope soaring 3 or 4 years ago, on top of sky diving(instructor) full scale pilot and lord knows what else. Could you build a SPAD this big that would fly slow enough? Thats the big problem. If it goes too fast it'll be out of sight before you can line the planes up.
    Intentional landings WITH a PBF are not
    the intentional design OF the PBF

  20. #20
    BuiltNotBought's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Well that is a lot to chew on. Thanks for the constructive critisism though clean, I will definently think of ways around those limitations. For the record: I'm not insulted by your post and my dream is not crushed. As for the landing part, that should be the easiest. If I handed you a radio and said "Land my plane on my other plane" I don't imagine that you would be very hesitant to at least try. No matter what other people, or physics says about this idea, I'm gonna go for it.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. — Douglas Adams

  21. #21
    Villa's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Hi BuiltNotBought
    Once the plane lands on the flying runway, the runway must speed up to carry the extra load. What will keep the plane that just landed from falling off? The wind will be around 30MPH (it does not matter what it is) and that is enough to blow it off the runway if nothing else is holding it in place. Belly landing using Velcro is one idea that comes to mind. Of course, the landing plane will still be lifting, so the Velcro may open up and let go. There can be answers for all questions. You may be at this for years. Good luck.

  22. #22
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    The carrier ship would have to be HUGE in relation to the parasite ship so the CG doesn't get thrown off too much after the landing. The landing plane would need to be 3D capable and very light, like your best electric foamies. The carrier plane would have enough prop blast to blow an arriving foamie away, so that detail would need to be addressed. Skillwise, I think it's doable by your most talented 3D flyers.
    The carrier plane could have a wind break to keep the landed plane from blowing off and a velcro deck.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  23. #23

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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    Just remember-
    aircraft carriers go pretty slow in the water - and there are arrestor wires and tail hooks to grab the planes as they land.  Still, the Naval Aviators who have pretty amazing skills don't always catch a wire. 

    Also - when there were giant airships in the 1930s, they did tests with small planes onboard to launch and protect them from enemy fighters.  The small pursuit planes had a hook on the top wing... and flew under the blimp to hook onto a trapeze thing hanging from the bottom of the blimp.  Not very easy either...

    The Navy came up with sister ships the U.S.S. Akron, launched in 1931, and the U.S.S. Macon, which hit the skies two years later. Both were a whopping 785 feet longthink two and a half football fieldsand both were designed as aircraft carriers. The airborne leviathans could carry up to five biplanes in their bellies. A hook beneath the zeppelin snagged incoming aircraft and then hauled them aboard. Conversely, the same mechanism was used to launch planes.

    "Planes would be lowered on a trapeze like an acrobat," Hook says. "The plane would be started and, after unhooking [from the zeppelin], it would go into dive to get up to speed." A hairy maneuver to be sure, but no one was ever killed flying in and out of a zeppelin.
    from http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=2356

    Just a few ideas to chew on...
     

    \"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things.\"~Saint-Exupery
    http://www.cana.com/radiocontrol.html

  24. #24
    hugger-4641's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    You build it and get it flying and I'll come land my Super Cub on it! I do touch and go's off the roof of my truck all the time. Of course I haven't tried yet while the truck was moving also. I'll start practicing that and figure out how to keep it there once I land. You just let me know when your ready for the first test!!
    Jerry
    AMA -922698 Nomal people scare me, but not as much as I scare them...

  25. #25
    hugger-4641's Avatar
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    RE: New airframe idea - Flying runway

    By the way, the Hobbyzone Super Cub is what I'm refering to. It has a top speed of about 25 to 30, so your "airport" is going to have to be stable at that speed!
    Jerry
    AMA -922698 Nomal people scare me, but not as much as I scare them...


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