SHOT happens! FAA is helping.
10-23-2014, 09:06 PM
#1
Thread Starter
SHOT happens! FAA is helping.
As an AMA member that has worked long and hard for, with and sometimes against the AMA, I have experienced a number of bad things yet many more good things. Now is the FAA picking on me? 
Back in 1996 I had to retire (age 60 then) from United Airlines. I was fundamental in establishing the Jetero RC Club's (www.jetero.com) current 50 acre flying site. Well guess what, there has been a change of the eastern (at least one) arrival routes into the Houston's George Bush Airport. First, a few weeks ago, I noticed the arrival, eastern side inbounds, were coming just over my house at an estimated 10,000 ft. MSL. Today the sky was nice and at the Jetero Facility, one after another jet-liner was crossing over Jetero RC Club's facility at an estimated 10-12000 ft. altitude MSL, one after another pointing at G. Bush airport, some 20 miles. That is scary. Anyone trying to fly a drone, multi-roter, or whatever they are, and especially if it is one that goes into the clouds and sometimes returns back to base, well YUCK YUCK that could be the bad thing that sets RC into a wither. Where do we go from here?
One of those big chunks of metal into a jet engine could create some new situations for a civil air-liner at a rather low altitude when the 2-pilot crew is setting up for landing in less than visual weather accommodations. Most of the new jets are two engines. Lose one when the pilot is busy could easily create a snap-roll type maneuver, which a pilot may get behind. The FAA is forcing auto-pilot on pilots in this era. In my 41 years of flying the jet, except at cruise, it was my hands that brought the machine in or out for a rest period.
Just how far do you want to take these chances? If I do become the EVP for AMA I would like to know what YOU think.
Back in 1996 I had to retire (age 60 then) from United Airlines. I was fundamental in establishing the Jetero RC Club's (www.jetero.com) current 50 acre flying site. Well guess what, there has been a change of the eastern (at least one) arrival routes into the Houston's George Bush Airport. First, a few weeks ago, I noticed the arrival, eastern side inbounds, were coming just over my house at an estimated 10,000 ft. MSL. Today the sky was nice and at the Jetero Facility, one after another jet-liner was crossing over Jetero RC Club's facility at an estimated 10-12000 ft. altitude MSL, one after another pointing at G. Bush airport, some 20 miles. That is scary. Anyone trying to fly a drone, multi-roter, or whatever they are, and especially if it is one that goes into the clouds and sometimes returns back to base, well YUCK YUCK that could be the bad thing that sets RC into a wither. Where do we go from here?
One of those big chunks of metal into a jet engine could create some new situations for a civil air-liner at a rather low altitude when the 2-pilot crew is setting up for landing in less than visual weather accommodations. Most of the new jets are two engines. Lose one when the pilot is busy could easily create a snap-roll type maneuver, which a pilot may get behind. The FAA is forcing auto-pilot on pilots in this era. In my 41 years of flying the jet, except at cruise, it was my hands that brought the machine in or out for a rest period.
Just how far do you want to take these chances? If I do become the EVP for AMA I would like to know what YOU think.
10-24-2014, 10:49 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Thanks for your input, Gents. However I was thinking about the Drone situation. If those passenger jets are down that low, these drones that can go into the clouds and later come back right to the point from which they left could easily take a jet out. I HAVE SEEN THE INTO-CLOUDS AND 5-8 MINUTES LATER RETURN WITHOUT PILOT INPUT.
I do believe that the Drone item will go far beyond your perceptions of the not-so-distant future. Still I do Thank You for your inputs.
I do believe that the Drone item will go far beyond your perceptions of the not-so-distant future. Still I do Thank You for your inputs.
10-25-2014, 07:50 AM
#8
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Being an AMA club officer for many years, I take the threat to our hobby posed by FPV seriously, but I also doubt that any electrically powered multi-rotor platform can reach anywhere near that altitude. The multi-rotor drones now available to the hobby can certainly be a risk to VFR GA traffic, but then thermal sailplanes have always carried that risk, but now with FPV capabilities added to thermal E-sailplanes 10,000' AGL is certainly possible, but any FVP setup will have altitude telemetry, so your club should set a maximum altitude allowed at the field.
Pete
Pete
10-25-2014, 08:06 AM
#9
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Here's a link for everyone to have a little fun with! Takes the guesswork outa who's up there, how high and how fast:-)
Plane Finder – Live Flight Status Tracker
Plane Finder – Live Flight Status Tracker
10-25-2014, 09:30 AM
#10
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A "drone" flying at 10 - 12k in the flight pattern of a major airport is reckless flying on the part of the drone pilot. All issues regarding should be a club police or rule. If a pilot refuses to follow the rules, kick them out. We have a small and slow private airport 3 miles due north or our field and we require a spotter when flying just to watch for planes. I would never risk a passenger plane just so I can fly RC.
10-25-2014, 02:09 PM
#11
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10-12 thousand feet is well out of the range of the average "drone" pilot. I don't think any commercially available RTF multi rotors can come even close to that, especially not with the standard radio or FPV gear.
Shoot, I don't even fly that high on a VFR cross country!
Nothing to be worried about as far as I'm concerned.
Shoot, I don't even fly that high on a VFR cross country!
Nothing to be worried about as far as I'm concerned.
10-25-2014, 03:06 PM
#12
My Feedback: (6)
Along the same line, but more of a direct issue (for me) occurred at my home airport, which has a fair amount of airline and corporate jet traffic. One day a few months ago, inbound to the airport the ATIS was reporting "Unauthorized drone operation" about 6 miles from the airport "at altitudes up to 3400 feet." This was in the area between the local VOR and the final approach course, where ATC usually has us as low as 2400 feet at a speed of 200 to 250 knots. The ATIS advisory ended with the usual "Use caution."
At 250 knots, you are moving a half mile every 7 seconds or so. I don't imagine you can see one of these models farther than a half mile away even if you were looking in the right place. Even if you did, by the time you registered its position and movement,,,and the disbelief factor of "what the heck is that?"... you would have a hard time missing it if it was directly in your path. "Use caution"...yeah right. Imagine 5-10 pounds of plastic and metal coming through your windshield at 250 knots. Sort of a bummer.
Law enforcement found the guy who (in the local paper) gave the standard "I have my rights and nobody got hurt" story. He was just trying to get some good footage for YouTube.
I have flown RC for 40 years now and have seen model technology advance quite a bit in that time. While performance and capability improvements have allowed modelers in the past to operate at altitudes and in areas that would put full scale aircraft at risk, collective common sense has kept most modelers from doing so. These new "extreme" yahoos are using the past 40 or more years of no issues between full scale and model aircraft - achieved due to collective responsibility - as justification that whatever they do - individual irresponsibility - is safe because "nothing has ever happened before."
While I don't have much sympathy for the FAA, I do see their problem. How do you regulate a model aircraft flying at 3400 feet - or higher, or the many other incidents that have become public? Except for most foamies, all ICE models we fly nowadays are capable of operating at these altitudes and higher. The only constraint is in the operator's ability to see it. Sit down and try to write a cover-all regulation that prevents stupid use of any of our models without imposing ridiculous restraints for responsible operators.
Perhaps it is because I am in the line of fire of these 5-10 pound 250 knot projectiles that I am little perplexed and, ok incensed at times, at what appears to be a flippant attitude of these high altitude long distance hobbyists. I am sure it is a lack of knowledge of the consequences if things did not go as planned. Perhaps if they worked in front of an office window while a "hobbyist" fired 5-10 pound projectiles at 250 knots randomly in their direction (but hey, it has a camera on it and gives some REALLY cool footage to put on YouTube...and besides no one ever got hurt before) they may have a different opinion.
Bryan
At 250 knots, you are moving a half mile every 7 seconds or so. I don't imagine you can see one of these models farther than a half mile away even if you were looking in the right place. Even if you did, by the time you registered its position and movement,,,and the disbelief factor of "what the heck is that?"... you would have a hard time missing it if it was directly in your path. "Use caution"...yeah right. Imagine 5-10 pounds of plastic and metal coming through your windshield at 250 knots. Sort of a bummer.
Law enforcement found the guy who (in the local paper) gave the standard "I have my rights and nobody got hurt" story. He was just trying to get some good footage for YouTube.
I have flown RC for 40 years now and have seen model technology advance quite a bit in that time. While performance and capability improvements have allowed modelers in the past to operate at altitudes and in areas that would put full scale aircraft at risk, collective common sense has kept most modelers from doing so. These new "extreme" yahoos are using the past 40 or more years of no issues between full scale and model aircraft - achieved due to collective responsibility - as justification that whatever they do - individual irresponsibility - is safe because "nothing has ever happened before."
While I don't have much sympathy for the FAA, I do see their problem. How do you regulate a model aircraft flying at 3400 feet - or higher, or the many other incidents that have become public? Except for most foamies, all ICE models we fly nowadays are capable of operating at these altitudes and higher. The only constraint is in the operator's ability to see it. Sit down and try to write a cover-all regulation that prevents stupid use of any of our models without imposing ridiculous restraints for responsible operators.
Perhaps it is because I am in the line of fire of these 5-10 pound 250 knot projectiles that I am little perplexed and, ok incensed at times, at what appears to be a flippant attitude of these high altitude long distance hobbyists. I am sure it is a lack of knowledge of the consequences if things did not go as planned. Perhaps if they worked in front of an office window while a "hobbyist" fired 5-10 pound projectiles at 250 knots randomly in their direction (but hey, it has a camera on it and gives some REALLY cool footage to put on YouTube...and besides no one ever got hurt before) they may have a different opinion.
Bryan
11-19-2014, 09:10 PM
#14
Hi Bryan,
ATC can kiss my butt when requiring me to go 250 after a report like that. 180 is my speed in that case. I have a real thing about all of the speed changes that ATC "requires" anyway, in the case you report I'd just say unable.
I usually give ATC my side once a trip, and one emergency captains authority declaration a year, it keeps teaching the FO's that we are still in control of our destiny, not the other way around.
Chris...
ATC can kiss my butt when requiring me to go 250 after a report like that. 180 is my speed in that case. I have a real thing about all of the speed changes that ATC "requires" anyway, in the case you report I'd just say unable.
I usually give ATC my side once a trip, and one emergency captains authority declaration a year, it keeps teaching the FO's that we are still in control of our destiny, not the other way around.
Chris...
01-03-2016, 09:43 AM
#15
I cannot resist responding.
All the moaning and groaning in the world cannot replace disipline, common sense and respect. a commodities in our society. The unbelievable selfice attitude of some has made life miserable for the rest of us.
Rules, numbers, laws, legislation etc. etc. will not stop any of the problems we face in the human society until we practice respect for others and stop being a me first people.
Now do I have the answer to all this? in a word NO! but I tell you this if i knew the powers that be would enforce the current rules of our society I would not hesitate to turn a offender in........That's right make the offenders truly responsible for their actions.
If you rely on our "leaders" to correct the problems of this country you will be truly disappointed. Just because some person has the position that person is still human and has many of the faults the rest of us exhibit that includes NOT HAVING A CLUE!
The problems of gun control proves my point. I have and use guns but not one of them is a threat until placed in the hands of a disrespectful individual. Much like drunken car drivers.
The teaching of moral behaviour, respect, love, and understanding has been removed from our schools and you are seeing the results.
The parents of many do not have these traits so what can one expect from the children.
If you think I am sorry for this rant you are wrong! I am saying what others fear to. Up our moral attitudes and watch our problems decrease.
All the moaning and groaning in the world cannot replace disipline, common sense and respect. a commodities in our society. The unbelievable selfice attitude of some has made life miserable for the rest of us.
Rules, numbers, laws, legislation etc. etc. will not stop any of the problems we face in the human society until we practice respect for others and stop being a me first people.
Now do I have the answer to all this? in a word NO! but I tell you this if i knew the powers that be would enforce the current rules of our society I would not hesitate to turn a offender in........That's right make the offenders truly responsible for their actions.
If you rely on our "leaders" to correct the problems of this country you will be truly disappointed. Just because some person has the position that person is still human and has many of the faults the rest of us exhibit that includes NOT HAVING A CLUE!
The problems of gun control proves my point. I have and use guns but not one of them is a threat until placed in the hands of a disrespectful individual. Much like drunken car drivers.
The teaching of moral behaviour, respect, love, and understanding has been removed from our schools and you are seeing the results.
The parents of many do not have these traits so what can one expect from the children.
If you think I am sorry for this rant you are wrong! I am saying what others fear to. Up our moral attitudes and watch our problems decrease.
