adrian dixon

Some of you may have seen my last build and know that my boat was stolen not long after completion so i have decided to build another. This time im going all out i have purchased the plans from firefighter boats for there gas rigger witch i will get printed out hopefully tomorrow. As for the motor i am undecided but i am thinking along the lines of a zenoah, sikk or quickdraw whatever will give me best bang for buck. hardware is undecided also but i did see a nice rudder/drive assembly on firefighterboats.com, if anyone has any suggestions or tips just let me know i will keep you updated...

adrian dixon

I went to 3 different print shops today to try get my plans printed out the first one only done magazines and big orders so they said if they could do it it would be to expensive, second shop couldnt get the plans to open because they reckon it was wrong format or something and the 3rd shop could open it but there graphic designer who knows how to use the program wasnt there so they are going to do it on monday and they can only print a3 size so i may have to go elsewhere yet... what a drama

dicko

what format is it? & do you mind if they're folded to fit in the post? I have access to a plotter with paper 900mm wide.

adrian dixon

I think it is a dxf or something. I am viewing it with delta cad demo version. i can print it out to a4 but that would be about 90 sheets lol

adrian dixon

I think it is a dxf or something. I am viewing it with delta cad demo version. i can print it out to a4 but that would be about 90 sheets lol if you got it printed dicko could you put it in one of those cardboard tubes and i could pay for postage..

adrian dixon

and pay for printing aswel

STEVE MARSHALL

Hey Adrian, Johno on this site (from here in perth) makes these ones. Also here is a link to it running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANGGN4TpJfM
Steve

martno1fan

If you can print it on a4 just do it it shouldnt take 90 sheets?? .id thought about downloading these plans myself but i dont think ill bother unless they make them available as a pdf to save all the hassle of having to have a dxf reader or whatever you need,all the free ones dont allow printing [:@].I dont know why they cant just make plans available on paper and charge shipping i payed $4 for shipping of a large cardboard tube full of decals from the states so how much can it be??.That said if i could print them on A4 sheets i would but i cant as i dont have the software to read and print them.

Squidhead Racing

Thanks Steve,
Yes, the boat you see in the pictures is indeed a Firefighter Gas rigger made from the very same plans that you have purchased.

Now, onto the printing issue you are facing. The best place (or places) I have found to get these printed from file is a company whom has a A0 plan printer/plotter. Most places that have a printer that size also have the approriate software to open and print the file. There are two separate file formats that you downloaded upon purchase, one is DeltaCAD, the other is a DXF file format which can be opened and printed with AutoCAD. The larger plan printers (or even architechtural firms) have this software and will generally print a set for a few dollars.

I believe the DeltaCAD file types were added to enable people without access to AutoCAD software to download the Demo version to view.

I had a local guy here in WA (Fremantle) that prints all my plans and he also has the ability to resize to pretty much whatever. For memory the FFGas plans cost me about $8 per A0 sheet, for me it is excellent as I still retain the hardcopy should I accidently destroy the paper version during a build.

Whilst you may vey well be able to print several A4 sheets, you will have to be very cautious when you build to ensure that everything is accurate and most importantly straight (tub should be built in a jig anyway to maintain straightness)

I'm sure there are many reasons as to why hard copy plans are not supplied, but the benefits of an electronic format IMO far outweigh a hardcopy. If you ruin a hardcopy set, you will have to buy another which is added cost to you, additionally, you have to store them somewhere. That said, sure, it may take you a few phone calls to find someone with the capability however once you have established a rapport, you set for any future plans you may desire.

Anyway, best of luck for the build, they are a straight forward boat that are very fun to drive, you will no doubt have a blast with it. If you have any questions and or queries throughout the build then by all means drop me a line and I'll do my best to assist you to the best of my ability.

Johno

martno1fan

ive yet to find a print shop that can and or will print plans for a reasonable price here thats why i asked if a pdf that we can print without the need to buy extra software could be made available? ive never found any free software that will print a dxf or cad programe yet? all the demos do is let you view the files and thats it,id have to pay another 30 quid for software to print those plans, ive never had a problem using A4 sheets to print a plan and put it together,ive built lots of boats using this method it works just fine if you just spend a little time lining things up,it works even better if the plans are tiled also .

Squidhead Racing

Ahhh, I see now. My apologies.

I guess I am fortunate enough to have a "guy" close by whom can print these. I also wasn't sure if the demo versions of the viewers etc could print or not.

This post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6700478/tm.htm on the lil brother of the FFGas has some more info regarding the PDF side of things and possible ways to go about it (maybe). Admittedly, I'm not 100% computer savvy so I can not be of too much assistance there. If there is a way you can tile them and print onto A4 sheets, then go for it I say, you have obviously got the method down to an art, that is awesome.

My apologies once again, sometimes I take the resources available to me locally for granted when I really should be thankful.

Would this be of assistance to you? It is smaller by a long shot, but you may be able to engineering it? http://home.sw.rr.com/bowf/BABBYRIGGER112106.pdf

Johno

adrian dixon

thanks for the advice johno i will try a few more print shops and see how i go.

Squidhead Racing

Adrian, if you cannot find anyone willing to assist you getting your plans printed in your local area, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do to assist you where I can. Same goes for when you're building mate, any questions at all, drop me a line.

Out of curiosity mate, where abouts in Aus are you?? I am not familiar with the town name.......................are you around SA way by chance?? A FFGas was finished in Adelaide this week and hits the water for the first time this Sunday.

STEVE MARSHALL

I thought you would pop up Johno, I get my plans printed at Budjet printing in Bentley. $10 to get them off my thumb drive and to any size on A3 sheets.
Steve
P.S might see you Sunday at Malaga

Squidhead Racing

I'm what you could consider a "lurker" on the forums......................just drop in from time to time. What can I say...................I'm shy (yeah right you say) hehehehhehe

I will be there on Sunday, not sure what time, but hope to catch you mate if you can make it

Johno

martno1fan

Steve i know who to come to when i need these plans buddy,you could get them printed for me and ill pay pluss shipping if thats acceptable matey .

adrian dixon

Johno, I am from the northwest coast of tasmania. If i do have any problems with the plans or when building i will shoot you a pm. thanks for your help so far.

dwr9

Dxf files can be read by any cad program not just Autocad. That's what dxf files were developed for, so people could exchange drawings between different cad packages. If I'm not mistaken dxf stands for "drawing exchange format". I can convert dxf's to pdf's if anyone really wants something converted. Doug

adrian dixon

Well i went ahead and printed them to a4 sheets on hy home printer so i could maybe start cutting some of the smaller pieces out and yep it took 90 sheets of paper lol. now i just need to know what is the best plywood to use because i want to have some parts woodgrain and some painted and i dont want to use marine ply because that is to expensive..

adrian dixon

Well i went ahead and printed them to a4 sheets on hy home printer so i could maybe start cutting some of the smaller pieces out and yep it took 90 sheets of paper lol. now i just need to know what is the best plywood to use because i want to have some parts woodgrain and some painted and i dont want to use marine ply because that is to expensive..

adrian dixon

Well i have started to get a few bits and pieces cut out over the last couple of days so far i have the tub sides, transom, bulkheads and sponson insides cut. I will be getting some steel angle tomorrow to make a jig so it should be glued tomorrow night then i just need to find some 1/16 plywood to do the top and bottom of tub and the sponsons. another thing i dont think i will be able to get my hands on is the depron foam for the sponsons do you think styrofoam would be any good? well here are some pics of a rough mock up nothing real interesting but its progress.

Squidhead Racing

Looking good Dicko, very nice indeed, you are progressing very well with her.

Here are some pictures of a very crude yet functional and accuracte jig I have made to ensure the tubs are straight when being built, purely for info sake (it is shelving material with aluminium angle) The tubs are framed up in there against some pencil marks where the bulkheads go and zap glued for a start to get everything aligned correctly. (well, when I suss out how to post pics, I'll place them up for you all to see....................don't know what I'm doing wrong)


For sponson core material, I personally use stuff made by DOW. It is a closed cell insulation foam. Very nice to use. Because it is a closed cell foam it sands very easily and doesn't bead like polystyrene. I would recommend this if you can get it. It is sky blue in colour. I'm not sure how Depron would go as I have never tried it so I cannot comment on suitability there sorry.

Over here in Perth, I purchase mine from a local supplier. It isn't the cheapest, nor is it the most expensive, but to give you an rough idea a 2400mmx1200mmx50mm sheet will run around $75 (that builds ALOT of sponsons...................many boats worth). That said, you obviously won't need that much and would get away with much much less. This foam is also great for rapid prototyping parts that you intend on moulding (if you're into that of course)

When it comes to skinning the sponsons, my personal preference in glue is polyurethane. It is exceptionally stong and you couldn't ask for a better job (in my experience with it anyway). Selley's make it (for memory it is called Probond or something similar) and it can be at your local Bunnings. The glue expands (foams) as it dries and you only need a little bit (a very little bit otherwise it goes everywhere). This glue is also fully sandable which is also a handy, desirable trait.

Others will say use epoxy, I have tried both, and once again, it all comes down to personal preference with what you feel comfortable using. I now only use epoxy resin for sealing parts once built and for me it works a treat (a fair amount cheaper too). I guess the added bonus of the polyurethane is that you don't have tomeasure and mix it at all. (you must make sure the tube is sealed when done though as it will go hard if left open or slightly a jar).

Once again, great work, you're off to an excellent start, please keep the pics etc coming. I reckon you got it covered, but if you need to bounce any ideas throughout the build, drop me a line.

martno1fan

just use ordinary white insulation foam sure its not as smooth as the beads are looser but ive used it on airboats and it works fine,i use an orbital sander to get the final shape the heat caused by the friction seems to seal the beads together a bit.be carefull what glue you use though on foam ,id stick with epoxy as this wont melt foam.good thing about the white foam is its cheap and easy to get hold of,i seal it with pva glue normally too but if your epoxying it in just use that.

Squidhead Racing

Mart, your points are valid, white insulation foam can be utilised as a core material and when sanding, it does seal the bead, you are correct there.

One thing that I would like to mention though with regards to white foam (as an outrigger sponson core ONLY), you may (not in every instance though) experience some difficulty with the security of the boom stubs within the sponson core as the white foam doesn't have the same compressive strength (density) and is subject to a little more lateral movement, so if you were to use this foam (white) I would seriously consider mounting a small block of wood into the sponson core for mounting the stubs.

My very first set of sponsons were built using white foam, and admittedly I did have problems with them, I'm not saying that you will of course, but it is just what I have personally experienced, and I swore never to revisit that method again as it didn't work for ME (approx 8 riggers later I have never had another failure of the same kind........touch wood since changing my methods to those outlined prior). Another point to bear in mind, I'm sure you'll appreciate the tremendous forces exerted on the sponsons through cornering and running at speed in chop which is definately a point you don't want to fail under any circumstance.

Like I said before, it is all what YOU feel comfortable working with and what suits YOUR building methods/techniques. What works for some may or may not necessarily work for others.

Dicko, if you're interested (I'm feeling rather generous tonight............it doesn't happen ofter), I can hotwire cut you some sponson cores (blue foam) for the FF and mail them to you if you desire, the choice is yours. If you're interested, shoot me a PM and we'll make it happen (it may save you going out and buying some foam). Just something to think about


Johno

martno1fan

Yea you are right Johno blue foam is much better for your desired use i was just trying to say white foam is ok to use ,good point about the blocks in the sponsone exactly what i use when making sailboats from foam to attach masts stays and booms if doing a trimaran which i havent built as yet (still planning to).Thats a good offer too you made Dicko ,good to see people helping others out.