trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
10-18-2008, 06:33 PM
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trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
I have decided to switch to a 4s 1800 mah battery, but that seems to have been a bad idea. I now realize that my heli has a high frequency vibration, and I can not figure where its coming from. I have replaced the main shaft checked the feathering shaft, the fly bar changed out the main gear changed the tail shaft. The tail shaft was bent and now that it has been replaced the vibration is better or less but not gone. I tried a different set of blades and it got worse I have used a Dubro balancer to balance the rotor and can't see any need to change anything. I know what I am thinking about trying next but I don't want to pay $170 to get a new V2 rotor. Any one have any suggestion or something else to check.
10-18-2008, 10:09 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
if its a high frequency vibration then its probably coming from the tail blades, check the tail blades for balance if you can, also make sure your belt is not too loose and..... I guess that's it. check that to see if it helps. If you're not sure is a tail issue the you could have a bent head (you only need to replace the head housing in ths case which is only 30$ not the complete head) and also make sure your flybars are balanced and that the blades are tracking correctly
One thing you can do is remove the main blades and tail blades and spin up the heli, if its vibrating then balance the flybar. once its not vibrating then put on the tail blade, if it starts vibrating then check your tailblades for problems, and finally put on the main blades and repeat, kind of a process of elimination
One thing you can do is remove the main blades and tail blades and spin up the heli, if its vibrating then balance the flybar. once its not vibrating then put on the tail blade, if it starts vibrating then check your tailblades for problems, and finally put on the main blades and repeat, kind of a process of elimination
10-19-2008, 10:15 AM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
A 4S pack on a stock TREX 450 V2 with an 11T pinion should net you ~ 3400 RPM.
How do you know your HS is 1600?
What motor are you using? If you are wanting to run 4S, you should get a motor that was designed for it (lower kV rating). In addition, with 4S, you need to be running a separate BEC or purchase an ESC that can handle the additional voltage.
There is a lot of tweaking and configuration involved with converting to a 4S setup.
As to your high frequency vibration, where are you seeing it?
How do you know your HS is 1600?
What motor are you using? If you are wanting to run 4S, you should get a motor that was designed for it (lower kV rating). In addition, with 4S, you need to be running a separate BEC or purchase an ESC that can handle the additional voltage.
There is a lot of tweaking and configuration involved with converting to a 4S setup.
As to your high frequency vibration, where are you seeing it?
10-19-2008, 01:30 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
ORIGINAL: rzarikian
if its a high frequency vibration then its probably coming from the tail blades, check the tail blades for balance if you can, also make sure your belt is not too loose and..... I guess that's it. check that to see if it helps. If you're not sure is a tail issue the you could have a bent head (you only need to replace the head housing in ths case which is only 30$ not the complete head) and also make sure your flybars are balanced and that the blades are tracking correctly
One thing you can do is remove the main blades and tail blades and spin up the heli, if its vibrating then balance the flybar. once its not vibrating then put on the tail blade, if it starts vibrating then check your tailblades for problems, and finally put on the main blades and repeat, kind of a process of elimination
if its a high frequency vibration then its probably coming from the tail blades, check the tail blades for balance if you can, also make sure your belt is not too loose and..... I guess that's it. check that to see if it helps. If you're not sure is a tail issue the you could have a bent head (you only need to replace the head housing in ths case which is only 30$ not the complete head) and also make sure your flybars are balanced and that the blades are tracking correctly
One thing you can do is remove the main blades and tail blades and spin up the heli, if its vibrating then balance the flybar. once its not vibrating then put on the tail blade, if it starts vibrating then check your tailblades for problems, and finally put on the main blades and repeat, kind of a process of elimination
ORIGINAL: Missileman
And you should have way more than 1600 rpms with a 4s and 11T, check your settings.
And you should have way more than 1600 rpms with a 4s and 11T, check your settings.
ORIGINAL: BryFlyGuy67
A 4S pack on a stock TREX 450 V2 with an 11T pinion should net you ~ 3400 RPM.
How do you know your HS is 1600?
What motor are you using? If you are wanting to run 4S, you should get a motor that was designed for it (lower kV rating). In addition, with 4S, you need to be running a separate BEC or purchase an ESC that can handle the additional voltage.
There is a lot of tweaking and configuration involved with converting to a 4S setup.
As to your high frequency vibration, where are you seeing it?
A 4S pack on a stock TREX 450 V2 with an 11T pinion should net you ~ 3400 RPM.
How do you know your HS is 1600?
What motor are you using? If you are wanting to run 4S, you should get a motor that was designed for it (lower kV rating). In addition, with 4S, you need to be running a separate BEC or purchase an ESC that can handle the additional voltage.
There is a lot of tweaking and configuration involved with converting to a 4S setup.
As to your high frequency vibration, where are you seeing it?
I am using the stock motor and ESC, I asked on another forum one day about using a 4s with the stock setup the answers I got said it should be ok to use a 4s I could not find anything from Align saying not to do it so I gave it a try, seems to be ok so far.
I am mostly seeing the vibration in the landing skid it kinda starts out in the head as the blades are spinning up then when I lift off the ground you can see it in the skid. This vibration has been there it was not as bad with a 3s pack but I suppose the higher RPM and a more powerful setup has made the problem more noticeable.
10-19-2008, 03:48 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
Once again, I do not recommend that you run a 4S pack with the stock Align 430XL motor. If you want to anyway, despite this advice, you should at very least least get an external BEC, such as the SportBEC, and drop your pinion down to 10T (if you can find one).
For a 4S setup, you should check out the lower kV motors from brand like MedUSA, Scorpion and NEU.
My $0.02. Your heli is yours to do with what you want.
For a 4S setup, you should check out the lower kV motors from brand like MedUSA, Scorpion and NEU.
My $0.02. Your heli is yours to do with what you want.
10-19-2008, 07:07 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
the vibration can't be caused bu too much head speed, actually when you increase head speed, vibrations usually get better. Oh and why is it bad to spin up your heli without blades? I've never heard such a thing, If you did then its probably true if you slam the stick to full power because you WILL damage something because of the rpms, but if you just spin it up to about 50% power then you won't have any problems, and besides it can't be worst than spinning it with a vibration. If you can't find the problem I really suggest you look for it this way because maybe its not even coming from the blades but from bearing or some bent shaft that can cost you the heli later down the road.
10-19-2008, 10:07 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
ORIGINAL: BryFlyGuy67
Once again, I do not recommend that you run a 4S pack with the stock Align 430XL motor. If you want to anyway, despite this advice, you should at very least least get an external BEC, such as the SportBEC, and drop your pinion down to 10T (if you can find one).
For a 4S setup, you should check out the lower kV motors from brand like MedUSA, Scorpion and NEU.
My $0.02. Your heli is yours to do with what you want.
Once again, I do not recommend that you run a 4S pack with the stock Align 430XL motor. If you want to anyway, despite this advice, you should at very least least get an external BEC, such as the SportBEC, and drop your pinion down to 10T (if you can find one).
For a 4S setup, you should check out the lower kV motors from brand like MedUSA, Scorpion and NEU.
My $0.02. Your heli is yours to do with what you want.
I appreciate the advice but the questions were originally about a vibration not setup.
LOL what is a 430XL motor I have a 450 SE with a 430L motor.
10-19-2008, 10:41 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
that's really weird though, if you have everything balanced you shouldn't have vibs, What I meant to say on my previous post was that common vibrations are eliminated with higher head speeds but that's not your case. Other things that you could check are: broken servo gears, belt tightness, ball links, faulty tail pitch slider, bent motor shaft, motor bearings, loose frame screws, or loose head screws, and maybe loose skids? If you hold the heli can you feel a lot of vibration? nothing else comes to mind. If none of the above are the cause then I guess its safe to fly it, but check everything because you never know when its going to surprise ya[X(]
Cheers!
Rene
Cheers!
Rene
10-20-2008, 01:27 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
Oh right then, now that's you've checked all of the above I believe your heli is just fine. Now that you've mention it, I can see some slight vibrations on my landing skids too!!![X(] hehehe I guess its just they way they are[:-]. the only 450 I've seen without ANY vibration at all is the on in a video where the guy is controlling it by remote camera. (there's a recent post with the vid) and he got rid of them by process of elimination. but that's just too much trouble if you're not going to be frying it by camera! heheh
10-20-2008, 07:05 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
wow I just found out that bad dampeners can cause wobble, which gets transferred to the skids! Now I'm definitely going to put on some trueblood dampeners now! have you checked yours?
10-23-2008, 03:22 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
well I guess we're on the same page then hehehe! let's see who can get rid of it first I'll check back when I find a solution
I'll check back when I find a solution
10-23-2008, 03:42 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
Finding the source of a vibration is a step by step process. Something either in the head assembly or tail assembly usually is the cause. You can break it down by spinning it up slow and fixing the heli down. I wouldn't tell you to hold it in your hands for safety reasons though that is what I do. Take your pick as to which way you want to go. But you can take of blades first. If still vibrating take off head assembly, then take off tail assembly, then take off belt...and so forth till you narrow it down. Check out every single piece! I had a vibration caused by dirt in the belt drive gears. Be thorough!!!
The reason people are asking about the pinion is that if you have too much headspeed then the tail will be spinning very very fast with a 4s configuration! A 3000 rpm headspeed has a tailspeed of around 13,000rpm. Overspin the tail and you will either explode the tail or have a vibration that no matter your best efforts of balancing just may be impossible to eliminate.
So get yourself a tach that can actually read your headspeed. Not one that stops at 1500!! or whatever!
On a side note the esc may be putting out correct voltage but with 4s the amps it can handle is LESS! That is because there is more voltage that needs to be dropped and in the ESC it is converted to heat! Long story short a BEC is very much advisable in a 4s configuration.
The reason people are asking about the pinion is that if you have too much headspeed then the tail will be spinning very very fast with a 4s configuration! A 3000 rpm headspeed has a tailspeed of around 13,000rpm. Overspin the tail and you will either explode the tail or have a vibration that no matter your best efforts of balancing just may be impossible to eliminate.
So get yourself a tach that can actually read your headspeed. Not one that stops at 1500!! or whatever!
On a side note the esc may be putting out correct voltage but with 4s the amps it can handle is LESS! That is because there is more voltage that needs to be dropped and in the ESC it is converted to heat! Long story short a BEC is very much advisable in a 4s configuration.
10-24-2008, 12:45 AM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
ORIGINAL: airjawed
Finding the source of a vibration is a step by step process. Something either in the head assembly or tail assembly usually is the cause. You can break it down by spinning it up slow and fixing the heli down. I wouldn't tell you to hold it in your hands for safety reasons though that is what I do. Take your pick as to which way you want to go. But you can take of blades first. If still vibrating take off head assembly, then take off tail assembly, then take off belt...and so forth till you narrow it down. Check out every single piece! I had a vibration caused by dirt in the belt drive gears. Be thorough!!!
The reason people are asking about the pinion is that if you have too much headspeed then the tail will be spinning very very fast with a 4s configuration! A 3000 rpm headspeed has a tailspeed of around 13,000rpm. Overspin the tail and you will either explode the tail or have a vibration that no matter your best efforts of balancing just may be impossible to eliminate.
So get yourself a tach that can actually read your headspeed. Not one that stops at 1500!! or whatever!
On a side note the esc may be putting out correct voltage but with 4s the amps it can handle is LESS! That is because there is more voltage that needs to be dropped and in the ESC it is converted to heat! Long story short a BEC is very much advisable in a 4s configuration.
Finding the source of a vibration is a step by step process. Something either in the head assembly or tail assembly usually is the cause. You can break it down by spinning it up slow and fixing the heli down. I wouldn't tell you to hold it in your hands for safety reasons though that is what I do. Take your pick as to which way you want to go. But you can take of blades first. If still vibrating take off head assembly, then take off tail assembly, then take off belt...and so forth till you narrow it down. Check out every single piece! I had a vibration caused by dirt in the belt drive gears. Be thorough!!!
The reason people are asking about the pinion is that if you have too much headspeed then the tail will be spinning very very fast with a 4s configuration! A 3000 rpm headspeed has a tailspeed of around 13,000rpm. Overspin the tail and you will either explode the tail or have a vibration that no matter your best efforts of balancing just may be impossible to eliminate.
So get yourself a tach that can actually read your headspeed. Not one that stops at 1500!! or whatever!
On a side note the esc may be putting out correct voltage but with 4s the amps it can handle is LESS! That is because there is more voltage that needs to be dropped and in the ESC it is converted to heat! Long story short a BEC is very much advisable in a 4s configuration.
Thank you for the info and if you read some of my above posts the vibration was there before I switched to a 4s pack, and as I think I said this was an experiment that I have not had much time to try since I asked about it sometime ago. My model avionics tach goes to 2800 not 1500. I have been trying to do a step by step elimination of the vibrations I am at a point where I have checked and rechecked many things and was looking for ideas on what to check next. I don't like the idea of spinning up the heli with out blades I read in a book that it was not safe so sorry if I disagreed with the other posts on this matter from now on I will do things that the experts on RCU tell me to do.
I realize why people were asking about the pinion but I was trying eliminate one problem at a time and since I had already switched to a 11t pinion my next move was a different motor which I wanted to wait because I wanted to get rid of the vibration, I could hardly hover because the vibration was so bad or at least I didn't want to hover for long.
once again thanks for the advice about the BEC but I don't think I'll have to worry about it since I will probably be using the 4s pack in my L-39 EDF the pack was bought to try in the heli and use in my EDF jet since I spent over a $100 on a different motor and BEC and ESC specifically for that plane.
10-24-2008, 11:19 AM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
also, something you mentioned in an earlier post about proper setup shouldn't vibrate, ANYTHING that rotates, vibrates. even turbines have vibration, just MUCH less than conventional power plants. also, anything that has a rotating airfoil (prop, rotor, whatever) will have a certain amount of vibration. you can reduce the vibration only to a certain point, after that, you can only grin and bear it.
now i have had a vibration in my skids before and found it to be that my blades were too tight in my grips and they were also slightly miss aligned. my fix was that i loosened the grips just a bit so that the blades (under full throttle) whould be pulled straight out by the centrifugal force and i would lose the vibration. just keep in mind that if you use this method, the grip bolts still have to be tight enough that the blades wont fold freely while static. it should still take a lil bit of force to fold them back.
now i have had a vibration in my skids before and found it to be that my blades were too tight in my grips and they were also slightly miss aligned. my fix was that i loosened the grips just a bit so that the blades (under full throttle) whould be pulled straight out by the centrifugal force and i would lose the vibration. just keep in mind that if you use this method, the grip bolts still have to be tight enough that the blades wont fold freely while static. it should still take a lil bit of force to fold them back.
10-24-2008, 09:37 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
Hey don't get all mad! all he's trying to do is help you out. I can understand why he got that idea, you see when you say:
[/quote]
other than that all vibrations are uncommon.
[/quote]
it can be inferred that you're saying that all vibrations (aside from the engine) shouldn't exist. So in other words an electric heli shouldn't vibrate. And he's TRYING to explain why this might not be true, that's all.
Instead of getting all worked up every time someone gives you advice or information, try to hear everybody's opinion and advice because it might solve your problem. And we're not EXPERTS but many of us encounter the same problems and when we figure out the way to resolve them we let the rest know, that's why this forum exists. So if you think our advice useless then go ahead and read your books where "experts" speak the word of wisdom and tell you what to do, and don't waste your time posting or our time responding to someone who doesn't really care what we have to say.
I really hope you resolve your issue the way you want to.
10-24-2008, 10:54 PM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
Yeah really bro...he didn't say anything to insult or attack you in any way...all he has been doing is offering advice!
I too read your statment as you saying there should not be any vibrations....it's basically what you said...not what you think people "misread".
Relax, "listen/read", learn and enjoy our hobby!
Skarn
I too read your statment as you saying there should not be any vibrations....it's basically what you said...not what you think people "misread".
Relax, "listen/read", learn and enjoy our hobby!
Skarn
10-25-2008, 10:16 AM
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RE: trex 450 se I need help with a few problems
ORIGINAL: haasjj
Now I am really confused what and where did I mention about proper setup shouldn't vibrate and where did I say anything about a rotating mass not vibrating???? Maybe I missed it on my reread just now but I am truly sick of people reading words that are not there and then correcting me about there misread or misunderstanding of what I posted.
I am guessing you misread the above statement well I'm sorry I won't call it an uncommon vibration I'll just call it...., well why don't you tell me what to call it since you are an expert on vibrations.
ORIGINAL: pawraith
also, something you mentioned in an earlier post about proper setup shouldn't vibrate, ANYTHING that rotates, vibrates. even turbines have vibration, just MUCH less than conventional power plants. also, anything that has a rotating airfoil (prop, rotor, whatever) will have a certain amount of vibration. you can reduce the vibration only to a certain point, after that, you can only grin and bear it.
also, something you mentioned in an earlier post about proper setup shouldn't vibrate, ANYTHING that rotates, vibrates. even turbines have vibration, just MUCH less than conventional power plants. also, anything that has a rotating airfoil (prop, rotor, whatever) will have a certain amount of vibration. you can reduce the vibration only to a certain point, after that, you can only grin and bear it.
Now I am really confused what and where did I mention about proper setup shouldn't vibrate and where did I say anything about a rotating mass not vibrating???? Maybe I missed it on my reread just now but I am truly sick of people reading words that are not there and then correcting me about there misread or misunderstanding of what I posted.
ORIGINAL: haasjj
The only common vibration there should ever be in a heli is on the nitro heli when you have a piston slamming up and down, other than that all vibrations are uncommon.
The only common vibration there should ever be in a heli is on the nitro heli when you have a piston slamming up and down, other than that all vibrations are uncommon.