Doomking

My Feedback: (38)

I am in the market for a good all around airbrush for detailing scale planes. Dual action top fed Badger, Iwata or Paashe
I was wondering if you can recommend one that's somewhat reasonable in price since I'll be using it on occasion to paint cockpit interiors, wheels wells, smoke trails etc...
There are so many different models out there, and I can use some expert suggestion from someone in our hobby.


Thanks

Fabio

Pitts S1S

My Feedback: (9)

Harbor Freight has one for 12 bucks. Its a good as the Badger DA, looks identical. Just a thought.

Jeff

LesUyeda

I would recommend you buy a fairly cheap one; find out what you like, and don't like; then buy a more expensive one, using your experience to select. I have both single and dual action, and for the work I was doing, I kept going back to the single action, because it was sufficient for my work, and easier to clean and maintain.

Les

91zulu

My Feedback: (2)

I think it would help to better explain to new users what each brush can be used for also explain the different needles and there uses. Just going out and buying a brush can be daunting. eg not all brushes can do hair lines and very micro details. So if some one can explain what brush they have and different set ups used to get certain details like smoke trails, what size needle is used vs painting small letters, fading panel lines, small details in cockpits etc. This info can help in deciding between buying a Iwata or Passhe single action vs double etc. Just saying a brand does not help much. Now I know in the hands of an expert a badger can do wonders to a certain point before an Iwata is needed. Just the same an Iwata in the hands of a rookie is no good either. I can`t explain much I`m learning myself with a single action Passhe.

So an eg would go , ..I use a single action Passhe with a xmm nossle which is good for exhaust smoke and xyz detail.
etc.

spray14

Hello Doomking,
I would check the Hobbly Lobby website every monday. They usually have a printable 40% off coupon.
You can use that to get a Paasche VL kit that will have the VL (double action) a large paint jar, a smaller
paint jar, and a paint cup. Also it comes with 3 different size needles and tips. This should only run you
around 65 or so bucks after the coupon.
A word or two about airbrush brands:
I personally wouldn't go for the el cheapo Harbor Freight gun because I don't know where I could find parts for the gun. I know that Badger, Paasche, Iwata, Vega, and Aztec are both easy to find and easy to get parts for.
The VL is considered a "work horse" of the airbrush industry, it is used by many on everything from T-shirts to Automobiles. It may be cheaper than some of the others, but it is rugged and a professional tool. The Vega is a good "lesser costing" alternative. I'm not sure if the kits are as complete as the Paasches.
As regards the Iwata. It is an excellent gun, but parts for it are more expensive. For example, the needle for a VL is 3-5 bucks, Iwata Eclipse 11-14 bucks. It's the same with the tips. On the other hand
the tips of the Iwata are made of stainless steel, vs brass in the VL, so the Iwata tips last much longer.
As for the different tips/needle combinations. VL's (and Vega) are rated by a #. usually 1, 2, or 3. the Iwata is given in mm diameter. The main thing to keep in mind is:
Small tip/needle = good for thinner paints at lower pressures.
Large tip/needle = good for thinker paints, and paints with additives (perl, mica, etc)
For ultra fine detail, the best is a small gun, thin paint, and a brush with the cup built on top of the body
so that the paint is gravity fed.
The VL, Vega, and Iwata Eclise are siphon feed, so it ususally takes a little more air pressure to get the
paint to flow nicely. This added air pressure makes overspray more of a problem.
In general, the skill of the person using the airbrush is way more important than the type/brand of
airbrush used. But it is nice to have the best tools you can afford.
All of the above double action airbrushes work pretty much the same, and I doubt that you will notice
much difference between them when starting out. The VL having the 3 tip/needle sizes makes it a very
versatile and affordable choice.
About airbrushing planes. I don't think that you're going to be doing that much freehand work unless
it is to add smoke fx, and shadows on the plane. In that case any size needle/tip would work, as that
would have more to do with how much paint you shoot at it (how far back you pull the trigger) and how
far you are from the surface.
Trigger back = Paint wide open.
Close to surface = solid dense color.
Far back from surface = thin "smokey" color
Keep in mind that the airbrush is shooting a CONE of paint, not a uniformly sized stream. Therefore
to get the sharpest edges and lines, extensive masing will be needed. If you are good, you can "fake" it
pretty close, but that takes a lot of practice.
Another thing the airbrush is great for is nice even gradients, and the tip/needle size isn't that important there either.
Airbrushes have a steep learning curve, hehe kinda like RC Don't get discouraged and remember that most of the time the problem is not you. It is usually the airbrush (tip dry, dirty, etc), the paint jar
(line clogged, airhole stopped up), or the paint ( old, needs straining, etc)
I hope I helped.
James
PS, I know that once you get your gun you will have many many questions, I'll try to keep an eye out
for your posts and help you further if I can.

Doomking

My Feedback: (38)

Fantastic reply Jim.....Thanks for the detail explanation.

So here where I am so far.
I am not sure if I will like airbrushing to detail my planes yet. Like you said the steep learning curve and my limited time (kids ,family and all) they all work against me.
So I didn't want to invest a large amount of money if it turns out that airbrushing it is not for me.
I went on you tube to watch some instructional video and I am confident that I'll be able to practices lines and dots until I am confident enough to create some weathering on my planes.
The equipment I bought so far is this:
Airbrush.....[link]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270731644072&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT[/link] for that amount of money if it works I will not feel too bad if I have to let it go.
Air line and filter, set me back another $10 at the local Harbor Freight and I have a small 1 gallon compressor that I used with my nail guns.
Need to get some color and some practice paper at the local art supply store and I should be able to practice this week for sure.
I am thinking for paint to buy the small jar of pre mix water based black color so that it will easier to clean the brush after I am done with it.

So there you have it. I'll be picking your brain for sure as soon as the paint will start flowing from the tip.
All the comments and help are as always very appreciated.

Fabio

spray14

Doomking,
Hmm, I'm not familiar with that airgun. It looks like a fingernail airbrush. It should be ok to learn on.
I didn't see a hose with that kit. You may have to rig something up.
For starting out, you don't really need to get any artist type of paper or special paper.
Go to Walmart or your local grocery store and get you a bundle of paper towels. If you can locate an el cheapo plastic paper towel holder mount it at the top of the board so as you're painting you can pull new paper down as needed. Paper towels are very absorbent and forgiving which is good when you're starting out. If the paper towel tries to blow around due to the air from the airbrush, hold it down with some clothes pins.
You need to learn to take the gun apart. Learn how to take the needle out and put it in, same with the tip (nozzle). You can clean
the gun with windex and lub it with WD40.
You can also go to the craft section of Walmart and get an 8oz bottle of acrylic for a couple of bucks, You will have to thin it down until it
flows from the gun without spitting and clogging up, and yet still gives a fairly solid line. Play with the airpressure, the paint consistency, the distance from the surface, and the amount of paint you shoot. Once you have all of that figured out, then you're ready to start doing the dots , lines, shadows, box fades, and daggerstroke exercises. When doing the exercises, try to keep the airbrush at a 90 degree angle to the surface. If you start seeing lines that are fuzzy on one side, you either have a bent needle, trash in the tip, or a busted tip.
After you've shot a few rolls of paper towels up, then try some fairly heavy typing paper, cardboard, plastic, or any hard non-absorbent surface. You'll be suprised at how much harder it will be. heh You'll have to be moving. or the paint will cry (run). You'll probably also have to lower your air pressure and use a lighter touch (not pull the trigger back as far).
Then, since you're wanting to learn to paint airplanes. Go to a yard sale, dig around in your old toy box, check thrift stores. You're
looking for plastic items that arent flat. Things like old baseball helmets, plastic bowls, etc... Painting a round surface ups the game
again. Now you must try to keep the airbrush at a 90 degree angle to the surface as you move around the forms.
I noticed that that gun has a gravity feed cup. When you start painting planes, try to plan your session so that you can paint from
light to dark. Dark colors are harder to clean out of the gun, and they have a strong staining power on the lighter colors.
Best of luck,
James

LesUyeda

Water based paints tend to dry up in the gun very rapidly. I used a stuff call Floretril (sp) to retard drying time. And when you get too much dried paint on things, you can soak them in laquer thinner, and that will disolve all the crud, but it does take time.

Les

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

The other thing to remember is that the finer the line the closer you need to be, and use just enough pressure to give you an even stream, usually between 15 and 25 psi.

Doomking

My Feedback: (38)

Thanks for all the reply.

I was wondering if there is a easy way to mix enamel paint. I have Model Master enamel paint that I need to shoot on my model but it's too thick I think and does not come out the gun.
I thinned it a bit but I still had very little paint coming out when the trigger was all the way open.
Do I need to thin it until it comes out as easy as the water based paint that I used already with success and comes already pre mixed?

Is there some sort of a ratio like 1:1 that I need to use to come close to the right mix?

I am using 25 psi with a .03 nozzle.

Thanks for the help as usual.

Fabio

RICMOD5634

My Vote is Paasche. I've used mine for years and love it. Just takes time in learning the holding/movement, mixing the paint and the right amount of pressure. I started out with a air brush air brush compressor, but found it to be lacking in consistant psi get a small one with a reserve tank and adjustable pressure setting and your good to go.
Rich

cutaway

When you can replace something completely for $12, parts availability isn't such a big deal. I'm just saying...

spray14

Doomking,
You can raise your pressure a little, as well as try thinning the paint.
Raising pressure:
Pro will shoot thicker paints and it is easier to blow clogs out of gun to unstop it
Con creates more overspray, may blow out the seal/packing around the needle, may blow clogs out onto your work
Thinning the paint
Pro- shoots great, very rarely clogs
Con- loss of color intensity
Keep in mind that many people run their airbrushes at pressures far above the maximu. For example I use VL-3, and Iwata Eclipse, and my
normal operating pressure is around 65 psi, it sometimes varies between 50-80 psi, depending on circumstances. The VL-3 instruction
sheet I had said not to shoot above 35psi. But back when I started learning, all of the professionals in the T-shirt arean I talked to
told me that I needed to go above 50psi to shoot these thicker T-shirt paints.
Whenever I use automotive or inks and dyes, I tend to shoot between 20-35psi. They are a lot thinner, almost like water. The
T-shirt/Auto-Tag paint I use runs between milk and milkshakes in thinkness, the vary based on the colors. Opaque and Florescent (Hot)
colors are usually the thickest, with Opaque White being one of the tougher colors to control.
Also keep a watch on the tip of the needle, the paint has a tendency to dry on it and cause the gun to shoot funny. You can clean it
easier with a wet q-tip, or fingernails (if long enuff), Some guns with shoot with the very end cap removed and allow easier acess to
the needle, (VL-s don't, Eclipses do), There are "paint-picker" aircaps for most guns, or you may can modify the cap on yours if
"tip-dry" starts becoming too much of a problem.

Good Luck,
james

Doomking

My Feedback: (38)

Hi Jim ....
Thanks for the reply.

Still having trouble with enamels..

No problem shooting pre mixed water based paint. The brush works perfectly.

I am having trouble with Testor and Model Master enamels.
The just do not come out.
I tried to thin it with Testor Thinner with no luck. I even reversed the process pouring some thinner in the cup first and shooting it and came out ok.
After that I added paint drop by drop to see at what point it would stop shooting.
The only way to shoot enamel for me is almost all thinner and no paint not even close to the ratio the Testor recommend leaving hardly any paint at all on the work.

Do you really think that if I increase the pressure to 45-50 psi it would work? I would hate to damage the brush with that much air.
The brush is perfectly clean needle, nozzle and all.

I am totally confused why it does not works with enamels...

All the help is extremely appreciated.

Thanks

Fabio

Soaring Steve

I use a Paasche Talon and I love it.. Its a great mid priced brush that performs better than itys price tag..
I just shot some Testor enamel paint through it today and it went fine. I reduced it to a 1:1 ratio, until it was about the same consistentcy of milk.

Avaiojet

That's not allot of pressure. You MUST thin the paint and strain the paint.

Pressure, the control of pressure and the flow of paint is what airbrushing is all about.

Double action airbrushes are what you want to use.

Also, keep in mind, that you may need a few coats. No one says you have to cover in one coat.

This entire image was painted using masks with water color Acrylics. The airbrush was from low pressure "spit" to 55 lbs.

I painted this image in 1987 for a poster. The event was a balloon festival.

The car was done in the 90's. No masks at all, just freehand. Some lettering, the chrome stuff, was brush driven by hand and shadowed with the airbrush. Car was all black when I started. It took best of show.

spray14

Doomking,
yeah, uhh, what Avaiojet said. He told it true.
If you still have problems you can:
1) Look to see if you can get a bigger needle/tip for your airbrush.
2) Get another airbrush that has a bigger needle/tip.
3) Find another brand of enamel paint that is made for airbrushing (metalcraft acrylic enamel comes to mind)
Also see if you can look on your paint mfr website and get any documentation on the paint you are using, sometimes
they will tell you how to solve a lot of these various problems. They may have a FAQ on their website too.
Good luck,
James

Avaiojet

James,

That needle idea about the change was a good suggestion.

Wish I had thought of that.

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Back when I built 1:24 models I would thin the model master paints with laquer thinner.. try 2 parts paint : 1 part thinner @ 25-30 psi on a test piece and work from there. Some say 3:2.. Heck I think I was doing 1:1 but it was a long time ago..
I got a quart can of a good quality thinner from the local automotive paint supply..

If you are using the water cleanup paints use alcohol to thin it.

jetpack

My Feedback: (1)

I have a Badger 150 model which is suction fed and I use Model Master paints. You wont be able to use the fine tip at first. Medium to Large tip and needle and 9-15 lbs. pressure with the paint thinned as suggested. Milk to cream consistency or you will have problems loading tips. It will still load and spit if you dont backblow your tip with thinner occasionally by blocking the tip with a rag. You will need two to three coats to start to see solid color if working with lighter shades.