brel

[edited because I don't want the wendy house brigade after me]

Panzerfaust77

From a technical and aesthetic standpoint, German armor is hard to beat. These were carefully designed war machines, unlike most allied armor which, until the latter stage of the war, was obsolete and inferior.

Admiring WWII German AFVs doesn't make one a Nazi anymore than studying a Van Gogh would make one artist. We all have intimate knowledge of WWII and interests beyond just German armor; for example I like the Churchill and the KV-1.

Leo2A6 Owner

Technically they were BUT No german tank unit had the hooked cross in their unit or field markings. They all retained the standard cross. Any pictures of german tanks with a hooked cross had it allpied outside the unit and were not official. They had flags for ariel identification and thats about as close as it got.

fv432

what do you mean exactly by "especially those from the U.K." i do hope by this you are not trying to infer anything or maybe I'm reading more into this

Rob

CountChocula

ArmChairGeneral you're killing me!

What I'd give for a Czech 38t or Char B bis... <sigh> [&o]

Dave

swathdiver

We should never forget. Forgetting allows the likes of Castro, Chavez, Hussein, Amin, Pol Pot and dozens of other mass murderers rise to power. Every new generation must be taught the consequences of letting evil prevail by showing them what happened in the past.

German tanks are quite popular because its what the Allies fought against. Having heard the war stories from dozens of veterans in my lifetime they all remember the crack of a Tiger's 88mm. One of them told me how he used to blow them up with bazookas from behind. If you're into modelling a Tiger in a certain time period or build and want to be historically accurate, you'd be hard pressed to find a unit that was regular army in some cases. Often times the SS got the good stuff.

Panther F

That same mentality can be applied to guns. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Modeling a German tank doesn't represent Nazism, it's just the weapon the enemy used against the Allies.

BIGMIG

It might be a good Idea to read more of the topic's that are posted here on the forum.If you do you will find that there are guys from around the world that are members here and work on all brands,scales,and models.Thats the great thing here is you will find other's with simular interests in what ever you like and work on.This is a place for learing and playing with tanks.There will most likely be someone here that will be able to help anyone with a legidiment question about tanks,what ever size or model.This day and age where every thing one says is being annilized it makes a big difference what phrasing is used in a question.I will myself give the benifit of doubt to the question and chalk it up to just queriosity.But every so often we get someone who comes on the forum with some kind of a chip on their shoulder and tries to dissrupt the fun we have here. BIGMIG

P.S. If I had to spell to make a living I would have been in deep s--t.
Just something I wanted to add,I was born in 1943 which makes me one of the few older retired guys here on the forum.Most of the members on the forum was born long after world WARII,they just happen to like the tanks from that erra-----

Perry S.

Looks like gustofwind is off to smashing start here. I find the original question posted sophomoric at best. Weren't we their allies? Allies doesn't always mean those other people that aren't Americans.
Anyway, no offense to us but German tanks were just better. At least cooler. Nobody ever trembled when they heard that a Sherman might be in the area. There's also a bigger variety. Went to a museum a while back and there was a King Tiger next to a Sherman. Incredible difference.
Would you not drive or model a Porsche because it was from Germany.
Perry

pcomm1

My 25 cents. My initial thought was to ignore this post, but heck, that is not me.

Background: I am a USA modeler.

I have been a recreational modeler for over 50 years in almost all categories. I also attended a great USA college for poly sci and graduated from one of the worlds best industrial design and graphic design colleges, hence my history interests and skill set. And like many guys on this forum, served in the US enlisted ranks, proudly. One of my email rc tank buddy's is an active duty Airborne Major, building an incredible rc German King Tiger and Sherman Easy 8 as I write this.

On topic: WWII German tanks have been popular subjects for books and models in the USA, since the 40's era returning US serviceman brought back the stories and lore involving the fight against panzers.

I model history. Sometimes WWII USA armor history. But the real fun is found for this modeler in tackling WWII Historical German Army and SS Unit armor vehicles because of: the numerous types, the camouflage and weathering art challenges, the fun of building what is available from Tamiya and my interest in fighting Allied and Axis armor types against each other in my back yard.

The fact that huge amounts of people fought and suffered around the world in the 30's and 40's, including members of my own family, does not present a moral issue to me and nor should it to you because someone builds a model of an Allied or Axis weapon of war.

Why? The model subject matter does not impact or change any of my core USA Civic, USA Democratic and All American beliefs, and I doubt seriously, if it is any different for other USA Axis modelers nor should it impact the beliefs of a UK Axis modeler or change/impact the beliefs of a German Axis modeler or any other nation's Axis modelers. Doubt if I am wrong on this. LOL.

I have read hundreds of books on the subject of WWII, but that is discussion for another forum, this forum is about building rc tanks and that is pretty much the long and short of it. LOL

To make it even clearer for you: Reading the bios written by the Axis soldier and or airman that my father and uncles fought against, does not make me an Axis sympathizer, but it does make me a better student of WWII history with a greater appreciation of the "difficult monster" that the men and women of the "Greatest Generation" had to destroy.

So because of their efforts, both of us, you, can freely write and voice your veiled contempt about panzer modelers and the rest of us can enjoy building our models in relative peace, regardless of subject matter.

And may I ask you this question "Gust of Wind"?

Just who's military have you served in lately and how may US Purple Hearts, Legion of Merits, Silver Stars, DFC's, Air Medals and Service Medals are and found in your families 20th and 21st century history?

I have no clue why I am being polite. LOL

John

Gustof Wind

response to all--
You guys are reading me all wrong--sure I could-should have phrased the question differently--but I was just curious--I had no idea of the availability of one kind of tank or another--a friend bought one and said it was cool, why don,t I get one so I did, after all this I almost wish I'd have bought a drill! I certainly know German and Nazi aren't the same, and I take exeption to anyone who thinks that I was referring that.
I was born in 1936 and remember well the radio broadcasts of happenings in the war both in the Pacific and the European Theater. I meant no disrespect to anyone.
As far as the UK goes I just found it remarkable that so many Brits would be modeling German tanks (a product I guess of my generation)
As soon as I get this thing together and running, I'll post pics and will await your critisism.
I hope this is the end--my apologies to all--Gustof

BIGMIG

sometimes a simple explination can work wonders,WELCOME to the forum.We are all friends here-----BIGMIG

Gustof Wind

I don't know what your question about the medals and my service record has to do with anything--I think you've got a big chip---Many family members served from wwII, Korea, Nam, Iraq, and Afganistan,--some were wounded, including my father in the Pacific, some died as did some of my friends--I served proudly in the U S Navy in Korea, and am a disabled America Veteran.
I,m being polite to even respond to you!

Ern

GustofWind, your post has been on my mind all day, and I can't quite figure out your intent. I'm new here, so this is the first time I've seen anything like this, and I too was just going to ignore it - but I can't. Your question implies a great deal of hate for an entire people because of a relatively small number of genocidal maniacs seventy years ago. If you, or a family member, suffered at the hands of the nazi regime, I am truly sorry and I hope that the replies that you have received have enlightened you a bit. This is not a policitcal group, it's a group of people from all parts of the world that like scale modeling and radio control military vehicles and tanks. As for which model of vehicles they choose to collect, detail, or build, I would say that, just like anything else, it comes down to personal likes and dislikes. I am almost fifty years old and grew up watching WW2 movies and TV shows, and have relatives that served in WW2. I am also an army vet that served in the 80's and spent two years in Germany and made several friends in the Bundeswehr while there - and none of them wore red arm bands! They are just people, like you and I, and their tanks are just tanks [and some pretty damn good ones]. The Military Channel has been replaying the Top 10 Tanks show lately, and guess what came in at #6 and #3? The WW2 german Tiger and Mark IV - both receiving the highest scores in every category except "Production Ratings". Had more of them been made, they would have rated higher, and that says a lot considering all of the tanks that have been produced. I have been around the M1 tank in the field, and while it is an impressive MBT, and fast, I still like the big, slow, mean tanks of WW2 - but the Sherman was ugly! The german people have long been know for their quality craftsmanship in all that they make [clocks, cars, cameras, etc] and their armoured vehicles are no exception, and you've got to admit it - their uniforms look cool too [past and present]. I have painted many scale models and figures and none are more challenging, and rewarding when completed, as the WW2 german uniform.
If you posted on this forum looking to incite a bunch of nazi sympathizers, you are not going to find any here. Just a bunch of kids, and kids that refuse to grow up, that like tanks.

Gustof Wind

I don't know quite how to respond to your reply--I don't see where you figure my question "implies a great deal of hate"--I hate no one--and as far as inciting Nazi sympathizers --I don't know how to respond to that except to say you've got it all wrong--I posted on the forum because I thought it odd that so many modelers were doing German tanks--THAT"S ALL--leave me alone!!!

pcomm1

For sure, your a 72 year old cranky veteran.

And thank you for your service.

But none the less, I understand the intent and content of your first question.

It is like both Nazi and old time USA FBI law enforcement tactics. Painting a group with a big, but inaccurate paint brush.

And I took you to the mat for your loaded question's intent.

Welcome if your goal is to model rc tanks, but leave the political stuff and your opinions at the door.

There are many fine people from many nations contributing to this forum and you will find a large population of USA veterans participating in this hobby, "so knock it off", as in US Navy speak.

John

PS If you search the web you will find many sites dealing with German tanks/battles and several sites are produced by x USA Army Officers. Do your own research and you will discover why this military history subject is so popular.

And has been popular for over 60 years.

wackywheelz

My thoughts on German armor in general has nothing to do with political views etc, I feel the love of axis armor is because at the time they were so feared, so tough, sinister looking, very "limited production" compared to most other allied equipment and the fact they were often vastly outnumbered in battle adds to the "WOW" factor. After the war a lot of the leftover war vehicles, wrecks or damaged axis armor was chopped up and melted for scrap, so all those gone (but not forgotten) tanks we can model today as a form of legacy of these iron beasts of war (and not the political regime which was in place at the time).

Add to all that the small numbers which actually still exist today, I think it really pushes the whole "axis armor!" thing. Look how many Shermans, T34s etc there still are running around, and compare that to Tigers or King Tigers...

abo

Got to take issue with this again, " I just found it remarkable that so many Brits would be modelling German tanks"..... why single us out? Because they bombed us? threatened us with conquest? I see no difference between us Brits and anyone else in Europe or the US for that matter. It was the people INSIDE the equipment who did that,not the equipment itself. Im sure there are a lot of guys in the US who model Japanese aircraft, so what? If you take you perceived analogy I guess you find it remarkable that we go to Italy for our holidays because the Romans conquered us, or buy French cars because of what the Normans did to us.

YHR

Touchy subject.

Gust of wind walked into a minefield. Don't move, lie low, and welcome to the forum.

I think you deserve some slack on this one.

Ern

Come on Abo... I have a friend named Norman and he's a heck of a nice guy

abo

Ern, me too funnily enough, nothing like the nasty Normans of a thousand years ago, its just this phrasing of "you allies" and "especially those from the UK" that bothers me.

pattoncommander

While performing with an Army Band in Germany, we were booked to play for a German-American fest, but in reality, it was a WWII Panzerjäger reunion.[X(] (unauthorized, but disguised as a GA committment.) During one passionate speach which got a lot of applause, one of my guys asked me "what did he say". I told him "something about Today Poland, tomorrow the world". One older guy turned around a glared at me.[&:] After which I passed out my manuscript copy of Baderweiler March and we played it. It was Hitler's favorite march and was played almost anyplace he went. We were not invited back. Like any Army, memories don't fade and unit pride is high, no matter on which side. I prefer the nicer aspects of running RC tanks, on either side and shooting nothing more that IR beams.

Gustof Wind

for sure I'm a 72 year old veteran
you do not , however understand the intent of my question, which is to know why there is an overwhelming perponderance of folks modeling German tanks--I had not a clue as to what was/is available to model
by "allies" I guess I meant all of us on the other side, and the Brits in particular because of their being bombed and threatened with conquest
if someone is painting with an inaccurate paint brush--you're using one on me--and I take exeption
again--my question was/is not loaded
I thought I might enjoy a change of modeling to tanks as I've been modeling trains forever and planes for fifteen years
if any one needs to "knock it off" it is you!

Harquebus

Hello Gustof. Welcome to the forum. Your explanation of your motives is good enough for me. I see no offence to be taken as long as one takes the time to really read into what you are trying to tell us.

I'm primarily a WWII U.S. modeler, in the RC tank realm, for many reasons but I think the main reason is because of the perceived popularity of the German stuff. They are far too numerous (like on modeling forums) because the manufacturer Tamiya chose to spearhead and/or devote most of their resources to the German tanks. German WWII weapons of war is also what is very popular to the buying public especially in 1/35 scale.

My perceptions of German armor are: Technically complex, superior armament (in many respects), fuel guzzling, unreliable and the Nazi War machine had too many tank variants to be as effective as the Americans.

U.S. armor was basically the opposite. Easier to work on, more reliable, greater fuel efficiency and manueverability, weaker main armament and had the advantage (and disadvantage) to have only a few known tank variants that were developed and continually upgraded over the course of their service life. Best example of this is the Sherman which became more and more obsolescent as time progressed. It did have the advantage of numerical superiority and the design had all the bugs worked out for the most part.

123Splat

Leo,

Ur,,, Uh,,,, What about Afrika Korps, Wiking, und NordLand?

And there 'probablly' were many, many, armor crewmwne who truly were Nazi's (by the time the real shooting rolled around, ole Adolf and buds had been in power long enough to raise a generation of fanaics, and did).

German arms technology and theory were 'state of the art' for the 1930's and first few years of the 1940's, but my reason for getting a Tiger was that was all that was available at the time I had money burning holes in my pocket.... (well, yeah, that Tiger was MASSIVE, and cool looking, and I'm still just a kid, ask the wife.....)

Gust raised a good, albeit stupid, question one more time. But, really guys. Who cares? why is everybody getting so bent out of shape about it?

BTW and off topic, but... For anybody who cares. Whitewolf McBride is in the hospital today getting his throat carved on. He indicated that he did not want this mentioned, but... without getting too political, religious, or whatever, any of you so inclined might want to remenber him in your prayers, or whatever. He's a really good guy and seems kinda worried.
And that is a much better way to spend our time than ranting on the original topic of this thread.