Cox TD .010 Ply Rolled Fuselage 3Ch Speeder
05-23-2014, 11:53 AM
#151
I did make a mousse can for my CS .061, but it is too short to give any boost...
It does bring it closer to open exhaust reading though, which takes it close to a regular .049 engine in terms of power.
Here are some pictures;
It does bring it closer to open exhaust reading though, which takes it close to a regular .049 engine in terms of power.
Here are some pictures;
05-24-2014, 01:09 AM
#154
With the muffler in the picture and JB welded crankcase etc etc, the engine gave me about 18000rpm on an APC 5.7x3 prop (with 10% nitro fuel). Given that a bone stock Norvel .049 RC will do at least 18500rpm on the same prop I kind of lost interest in the project.
AndyW has shown that there is lots of gain to be made on the Norvels with a tuned pipe, so that would be a much more interesting project for a mousse can pipe I think.
I don't know the whole story but there was a tunable pipe in the 70-ties, and then came the "magic" mufflers in the early 80-ties. The mousse can pipe then looks like a mimic of those rather pricy magic mufflers. I don't think that there is very much to the design other than the length and excit hole that matters, so a little trial and error is probably all it takes to get it right...
AndyW has shown that there is lots of gain to be made on the Norvels with a tuned pipe, so that would be a much more interesting project for a mousse can pipe I think.
I don't know the whole story but there was a tunable pipe in the 70-ties, and then came the "magic" mufflers in the early 80-ties. The mousse can pipe then looks like a mimic of those rather pricy magic mufflers. I don't think that there is very much to the design other than the length and excit hole that matters, so a little trial and error is probably all it takes to get it right...
05-24-2014, 04:24 PM
#155
Thread Starter
From what I have learned with the 20 watt TD .010 you can have a faster plane than my effort with these plans a Quickie - 50 
2 or 3ch. If you open in a sep window at 125% seems to be full scale.
As a 2ch:
4.5 oz or less all up
AAAA 200mah Nimh 4cells
Bladder tank or
1/4oz of fuel could use wedge tank.
3/4" wheels
2 or 3ch. If you open in a sep window at 125% seems to be full scale.
As a 2ch:
4.5 oz or less all up
AAAA 200mah Nimh 4cells
Bladder tank or
1/4oz of fuel could use wedge tank.
3/4" wheels
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 05-24-2014 at 07:46 PM.
05-25-2014, 04:24 PM
#160
What is funny is to pose the wing area question over at the NASS C/L speed forum. I inquired before designing my first .049 powered sheet wing racer and all of the replies came in under 100 sq inches.
If you were to ask them about a 2 channel .020 RC racer I'll bet 50 sq in. would be the consensus.
If you were to ask them about a 2 channel .020 RC racer I'll bet 50 sq in. would be the consensus.
05-25-2014, 07:43 PM
#161
Thread Starter
Yes the Q-50 size with the weight of a TD .020 / tank size should still manage to land without too much fuss with some head wind.
For 1/2A 70- 80 sq in .
In lieu of the above I have removed the 20w TD .010 for the 40w TD .020 now should be able to fly this design in gusty weather as its still been too windy to fly with the TD .010. If the .010 was in a 40-50 sq in plane I could do battle with 10 to 15 mph winds. I plan to build a smaller plane for my .010 I have placed an order for a 200mah ni mh battery and 4ch micro RX orange. I have a micro 6ch in it now which is over kill.
With the TD .020 as shown 5.4oz less fuel. Around 62 Sq. In.
For 1/2A 70- 80 sq in .
In lieu of the above I have removed the 20w TD .010 for the 40w TD .020 now should be able to fly this design in gusty weather as its still been too windy to fly with the TD .010. If the .010 was in a 40-50 sq in plane I could do battle with 10 to 15 mph winds. I plan to build a smaller plane for my .010 I have placed an order for a 200mah ni mh battery and 4ch micro RX orange. I have a micro 6ch in it now which is over kill.
With the TD .020 as shown 5.4oz less fuel. Around 62 Sq. In.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 05-25-2014 at 08:45 PM.
05-25-2014, 08:42 PM
#162
Thread Starter
I plan to fly with the carbon/plastic 3.3 x 3.15 or 8.5 x 8 cm
Will use with throttle sleeve to keep the load off the engine while in the hand.
Could get around 27K with this small 1.3g prop. 81 mph max theoretical speed.
Stock 2 blade 4.5 x 2 is 2.1g and 3 blade is 2.5g
3 x 4 if at 24k 91 mph
Will use with throttle sleeve to keep the load off the engine while in the hand.
Could get around 27K with this small 1.3g prop. 81 mph max theoretical speed.
Stock 2 blade 4.5 x 2 is 2.1g and 3 blade is 2.5g
3 x 4 if at 24k 91 mph
05-25-2014, 11:28 PM
#163
Thread Starter
I took some graph paper to one wing pannel and did the math looks like I am at 54 Sq.in. The wing has a lot of tapper to get by with its span.
After further thought I would say a Q 40 for the TD .010 - if at 50 would be best for 5 to 7 mph winds.
A Q-40 should fly ok in 8-12 mph wind -some wing spans / cords
2.5 x 16
3 x 13.5
2.75 x 14.6
If always windy days than a Q 30 say 12-17 mph winds *should be high wing for fast high thrust hand launches into gusty swirling snarrrrling krappin mean ol wind.
2 x 15
2.25 x 13,75
After further thought I would say a Q 40 for the TD .010 - if at 50 would be best for 5 to 7 mph winds.
A Q-40 should fly ok in 8-12 mph wind -some wing spans / cords
2.5 x 16
3 x 13.5
2.75 x 14.6
If always windy days than a Q 30 say 12-17 mph winds *should be high wing for fast high thrust hand launches into gusty swirling snarrrrling krappin mean ol wind.
2 x 15
2.25 x 13,75
05-26-2014, 03:18 PM
#165
The Reynolds numbers for chords less than 4 inches really drop off the charts, so weight allowances get really strict. It would be pretty cool to see a .010 attempted with 3 inches at the root and 2 inches at the tips with about 12 inches of span.
the most significant weight reduction would involve mutilating the engine to eliminate every grain of extra weight.
the most significant weight reduction would involve mutilating the engine to eliminate every grain of extra weight.
05-26-2014, 05:26 PM
#166
Thread Starter
Q-30
Idea's for the aspect ratio say
(2.3 tapper to .7) 3 x 12 for 33 sq/in.
If none tapper than 2.75 x 12 for 33 sq/in.
The 3 by 2 x 12 would be a 60 sq/in wing.
3 by 1.5 x 12 - 50 sq/in
3 by 1 x 13 - 52
2.75 x 1.25 x 13.5 - 54
3.2 x.8 x13.5 - 54
Idea's for the aspect ratio say
(2.3 tapper to .7) 3 x 12 for 33 sq/in.
If none tapper than 2.75 x 12 for 33 sq/in.
The 3 by 2 x 12 would be a 60 sq/in wing.
3 by 1.5 x 12 - 50 sq/in
3 by 1 x 13 - 52
2.75 x 1.25 x 13.5 - 54
3.2 x.8 x13.5 - 54
05-26-2014, 08:04 PM
#168
Thread Starter
I have flown 3.6oz / 30.25 sq/in before on 30-40watts 13.5 in span over 70 mph.2S lipo.
Here is a pic as shown and added the weight of the rx and 150mah 4 cell pack of AAAA.
All up in a mere 2.57oz as a 2ch. -if a third channel is used it and the rx will share the same spot under the wing
add 3.8g so about 2.75g ready to fly.
The battery under the wing on the other side of the wing pylon. 3mm dia carbon tube frame and thin ply / balsa.
Engine back plate snugs up on round disk of plywood.
Just bag the rx from oil anything else can be wiped down. Can use rubber bands to hold the rx and most things.
Very crash resistant.
Here is a pic as shown and added the weight of the rx and 150mah 4 cell pack of AAAA.
All up in a mere 2.57oz as a 2ch. -if a third channel is used it and the rx will share the same spot under the wing
add 3.8g so about 2.75g ready to fly.
The battery under the wing on the other side of the wing pylon. 3mm dia carbon tube frame and thin ply / balsa.
Engine back plate snugs up on round disk of plywood.
Just bag the rx from oil anything else can be wiped down. Can use rubber bands to hold the rx and most things.
Very crash resistant.
05-26-2014, 10:36 PM
#170
Thread Starter
This one can whip around in a turn well and will putter about easy enough. It goes striaght up very fast with a outrunner.
20W of power eh not so great it will be all about having a throttled .010 to play with at a reasonable speed. Thats really all
you can hope for is just to enjoy the wee lil engine.
Looking forward to trying the .020 enough power to fly on a typical day around here.
The .020 should be the closeing chapter in this lil speedy build the plane can now swap out either engine. I would still like
to tweak out the .010 to fly well with the plane on calm days but its really do for a new airframe such as the Q -30
Im looking at either a 049-061-09 or 15 2cy / 26 4cy / .25 size plane next not sure.
20W of power eh not so great it will be all about having a throttled .010 to play with at a reasonable speed. Thats really all
you can hope for is just to enjoy the wee lil engine.
Looking forward to trying the .020 enough power to fly on a typical day around here.
The .020 should be the closeing chapter in this lil speedy build the plane can now swap out either engine. I would still like
to tweak out the .010 to fly well with the plane on calm days but its really do for a new airframe such as the Q -30
Im looking at either a 049-061-09 or 15 2cy / 26 4cy / .25 size plane next not sure.
06-03-2014, 10:52 PM
#171
Thread Starter
I have flown with the .020 its fast. I had coated the inside of the fuel bay with fuel proof paint incase I ever went with a bladder I fabricated a small 1/2 oz bladder for the more thirsty engine the weight is less than the other 1/4 steel tank. I have reconfigured the 4 cell batteries to fit in the wing saddle area in lieu of the TD .020 on the nose this gives ample room for the bladder. I had ran on a bit more than 1/4oz and was getting 2.2 mins of run time. I have done an idle test thus far with the bladder the needle went from 5.5 turns down to about 2 turns. I will end up boring out the venturi, I would like to see 25k with a 3p prop.
06-04-2014, 11:30 AM
#173
Thread Starter
haaha true true very rare moment the entire process has helped to figure out proper proportions for a fast TD .010. I plan to build another .010 size plane around 30-35 SQ/IN.
The .010 flew the plane fine but limited to low wind days I need the lil .010 to perform in 10-15mph winds.
The .020 pulls this particular plane very well and I knew it was just a matter of time before I swapped out engines I had designed the plane to handle this engine but wanted to explore the power output of the .010 first. I've gone from 20w to 40w roughly. Here is a launch pic with the TD .020. I will work on getting a good video this weekend. I tried last Sunday but the but the time of day had the footage a bit too dark to work with.
The .010 flew the plane fine but limited to low wind days I need the lil .010 to perform in 10-15mph winds.
The .020 pulls this particular plane very well and I knew it was just a matter of time before I swapped out engines I had designed the plane to handle this engine but wanted to explore the power output of the .010 first. I've gone from 20w to 40w roughly. Here is a launch pic with the TD .020. I will work on getting a good video this weekend. I tried last Sunday but the but the time of day had the footage a bit too dark to work with.
06-04-2014, 07:51 PM
#175
It is handy to have your experience with small electric set ups to know what design parameters is feasible, especially for outdoor flying with limited power.
Last edited by combatpigg; 06-04-2014 at 08:00 PM.