MJD

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BTW those high percentages I suggested were based on paint curative blends - which are loaded with solvents and whatnot as well. If you bracket too little and too much you can get a feel.

hllywdb

CP look at the racing Doug Nash 5-speed. Not the POS one they put in the vettes.

combatpigg

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That's really interesting MJD. You do a great job of explaining what goes on in the mixing cup. I can now see why making progress in chemistry is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.

hllywood......I'd love to have a Doug Nash tranny [if they have one with OD]..but the price for a new one is out of my league and buying a used one is risky. You can't always believe the guy who says that his grandma had it in a Nash Metropolitan coupe behind it's 50 HP engine that she only drove to her job as a kindergarten teacher.
I ran across a guy from Vicman's neck of the woods [via internet forum] who builds custom BW T-10s with gear sets that he makes on site and CNC cases that he has cast and machined. Not only do you need to be a genius machinist, but also know all about heat treatment. I don't recall his name, but he sells trannys to competitors and street freaks. The shifter arrangement is totally different from the T-10's design, he has probably borrowed ideas from the Tremec type to move the shift forks.
Once I saw the price, I hit the "Close Button" on his website...and never looked back...!
The TKO 500 [that's it's torque rating] is about $2400 and even though it's over kill for my 350 HP set up I have not read anything bad about the TKO 500.
I'm running really sticky tires that have 10 inches of contact and they'll pick up cigarette butts on a hot day.

aspeed

The trans on mine is the 4 + 3. Just a regular 4 speed, and the Doug Nash overdrive in the top three gears. The overdrive is kind of an automatic. It doesn't come on until the temperature is about 180 degrees. I know another guy with one that does the same. It is either planned or they are both hurtin. If you want to be aggressive, the overdrive is better turned off. Later years had a 5 and 6 speed. I would gladly trade for the 4 speed automatic, likely less $ to rebuild. I think the 1985 was only 230 hp. so a strong trans. is not really an issue. It doesn't seem real fast to me, but on the highway over 50 mph, it pulls better than most of my rods did. (T'bucket, Bantam coupe 5 liter Ford, 32 3 window coupe 283) Probably because of less wind resistance. The Bantam did 14.2 @ 92 IIRC, and the 3 window was 15.3 at 80 something with the Saginaw 4 speed standard. Both 4 bbl. wrecker motors, nothing fancy for sure.

combatpigg

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As usual, the HP rating is for insurance and possibly EPA compliance at the time. To get a car that heavy to do low 14's with only a 350, it takes muscle and smart gearing. The word at the forum I visited is the 85 vette was a pretty hot performer in an era known for just the opposite. I had no idea that the 85 vette had such a weird tranny..!
4+3...thermostat controlled...?
Autos might win the race, but they just are boring for a street rod and not very flexible. At least with a clutch, I can decide what my "stall speed" will be any time I want.
I've tried driving this thing on the freeway with 4.10 gears and no over drive and needed to take the first exit off ramp. The C-6 trans with 2500 rpm converter [that came with this engine] nobody seems to want. I want to sell it while it's still in the car to get top dollar...but that has been a failed plan so far.

klord125

CP.. Look at these if you want sticker shock.. Jericho.. My buddy runs one in his 66 Vette. Very nice BUT crazy $$$$$$$$

combatpigg

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Klord, I've heard that name for years, but that's the first look I've had at one. That's a beefy shaft and those straight cut gears will add a cool whining sound to the car.
If I had one of those, it would stay with me and never get sold with the car unless the buyer is willing to bump the price of the car equal to the worth of the tranny.

klord125

CP I hear ya there.. I have always wanted to have one but is way out of my price range. I think he has about 7-8 grand in the whole thing..But they are pretty stout.. When you have a high winding SBC leaving the line it's one less part to worry about breaking.. But I wouldn't know that personally lol....

combatpigg

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Grumpy Jenkins would. He used to shift his 331 Pro Stock engines at 9500

hllywdb

The 4+3 trans were notoriously weak, but fine with what they were used for. Overdrives are over rated anyway. If you can get a 5sp that is 1:1 in 5th, you just gear it so 4th is what you would want at 1:1 and 5th becomes an overdrive without all that extra whine and bearing wear. My Baker 6 speed on my HD is 1:1 in 6th and I overdrive the primary so 5th runs like 5th in a 5sp. Much stronger too. Baker makes their own shift drums and they shift like butter and never miss.

5 speeds make sense I guess on the street. I was always fine with 4 speed top loaders and you were usually still in 3rd at then end of the 1/4 anyway. But I was usually tossing 400 to 550 hp at them too in light cars. The wide ration boxes were the way to go as they made much better use of the torque. Let's face it, each time you shift you are stopping acceleration for a bit. Thats why Lenco's are popular. I eventually switched to Fairbanks automatics as you will never outshift them no matter how good you think you are. But you pay a price at the pump without the extra gear.

9500 is easy for a sb. I had a couple of small journal 327's that I short stroked with 265 steel vette cranks and aluminium rods. With a roller drive train and reworked 465X casting heads they'll shift at 10000 easy and still be making good power. The nascar boys are running over 8k for 500 miles at a time. Hitting 9500 3 times over 1/4 mile is taking it easy

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's a wild combo that I've heard of before. A guy who made a living selling turbo'd BBCs to tractor pullers, speed boat owners, even 4 x 4 nuts back in the 1970s built a destroked 327. Tom Skahill from San Rafael liked to talk about a 327 block / 265 crank combo that revved into the teens.
At the time, the local JC [College of Marin] had all brand new machine shop equipment and there was no tuition, just a lab fee. I think this is where Tom put that one together.
Today would have been perfect to go flying...freezing but sunny with no wind.
My 24 year old roof told me it was also a perfect day to be up there tearing off shingles so I obeyed my roof's wishes.
I've been making drawings of a 1/2 A Shrike. I want something that will be fast for a TD .049 but also acrobatic. What I've read about the Lanier Shrikes is they just aren't very acrobatic. With the fat wing they come with, I wouldn't expect them to take full advantage of any speed potential, either.
The other "mod" I'd be in favor of is to make it more of a high wing, just to make hand launching more easy. With that fan-tail design there doesn't look like any easy way to grip it. The problem is, my first sketch of a high wing side view is pretty ugly.
.

aspeed

I have had the Das Wunder plan hanging on the wall of my shop for over a year. I though it would be a good project. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/1-2-...der-plans.html Similar to the Shrike. The plan is on post # 2.

combatpigg

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That's a fun looking cousin of the Shrike that I had forgotten about.
The Shrike is like a Camaro and the Wonder is like a Nova.
I've just about got all the details worked out for a 24 inch span Shrike with a 1/2" thick, built up wing.

MJD

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LOL - I know exactly what that looks like, I've drawn similar ideas before with top and bottom fuselages on various wings. Ugly is right. In real life with the wing in the way of your line of sight it might look better.

combatpigg

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BINGO..!
My thoughts exactly. This thing will perform well enough to look just fine where it counts....at roughly 200 to 300 feet down range.
As long as we are in agreement in advance that it's going to be ugly, then I'm OK with moving ahead on this project to build a .049 powered Flying Machine. It's good to make sure that expectations for appearance sake will be held to bare minimums.
The key ingredient is finding a nice hollow tube spar.
I found a .200" OD x 30" long CF tube for $14 [plus S&H] at Goodwinds Kite supply. Kind of expensive.
It weighs .2 oz and is reported to be pretty stiff. I've always used cheaper FG tubes in the past.
If I use FG clad balsa ribs, then the .200 OD tube is just barely doable with .25" thick ribs at the tips and .50" thick at the root. The tip ribs would need to have "doublers" that the spar tube does not penetrate.
Our LHS is no longer in business..back in the day I'd make a 5 minute detour on the way home from work to pick up stuff like this.

hllywdb

Here's my 049 and 020 size hummer projects thus far. When I built my first one in the 70's I remember thinking how tiny it was at the time. Now it seems like a B52. But I keep looking at the wing and thinking it's the perfect size and shape for a nice 074 size aerobatic plane. If I put the fuselage on a major diet, maybe added a turtledeck, a bit larger stab, split the elevator and added a real full length rudder..... might be a nice flier.

On the shrike\wonder types, I always ending up wanting a rudder. Yes the're fast, aerobatic and fun. But for me it's kind of like CL combat. Loads of fun when you're chasing streamers, but after a bit flying my Sig Wonder got too much like flying my CL Voodoo solo. Yes it's fast, yes it turns on a dime, but.......

My Wonder finally bit the dust in spectacular fashion. I'm going to call it "radio failure" as my thumbs most certainly would'nt have had anything to do with it, and if they did they would of cut the throtle back, right? Anyway, full bore into mother earth. The point being (CP take notice) is that the firewall was stought enough that even though the impact completly tore the nose and carb section off and ruined the case of the Fox 15 (no easy task) the firewall and engine stayed attached to the plane through the entire performance. So this may indeed be a good next build for you after the pacer mishaps! LOL

aspeed

That is the same combo I have on my Wonder. Fox .15BB. Still flying it. I like it, and my AX .46 Twist about the best lately. I hardly use the rudder much anyway, I know it is shameful.

hllywdb

Another choice is to shrink down a Sig Doubler to "Go fast with a TD" size. It's high wing and short coupled enough to break the pilot's neck during snaps.

combatpigg

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I've never owned a Fox .15 Schnuerle...but they are very strong and light.
The problem with too strong of a mount is the engines get destroyed. I broke 2 OS .15 cases in the first 2 days of flying SSC class combat and threw in the towel. The class weight MINIMUM is 40 ozs which at 45 - 50 MPH with a mandatory 8 x 3 prop is enough kinetic energy to bury the engines when they go straight in.
I've never built a Hummer, but I have built the Doubler to race. With a rudder, that plane would have been more fun.
I've had single stick planes with no rudder behave like they had a working rudder while doing fully stalled aerobatics, but you need low wing load and good power.
If the engine rips off the nose of this .11 powered Pacer [again]....I'll either torch it or else strip the covering, glass it top to bottom and set a OS .32 in it.

Pond Skipper

Nice looking Hummers Hlywdb!

My memory was jogged about the firewall convo. I recall a silver and black scratch built design .09 plane of mine the weak spot was just an inch behind of the wings leading edge. In a fatal RX loss crash the fuselage snapped in half there because I only had a balsa wing saddle. The engine everything up front stayed intacted. Larger planes have more mass as we all know something always must give perhaps if we control the weak spot for fast repairs is the trick.

The Lil speedy has hit the ground at full throttle RX battery lost connection (bad switch) the only thing that failed was the tail group snapped loose at the brittle CA glue joint as the shock load ran all the way to the tail like a whip. Rubber bands released the wing to safety. All other components strong enough to take the abuse yet light enough to perform well in the sky. A worthy goal met.

Perhaps regardless of size if you can shear away mass on impact such a snapping nylon wing bolts or rubber bands to shed the wings, nylon landing gear bolts or spring steel that bends under load. The next level would be to shed the front end. Older timer and trainer plans back in the day had rubber bands to hold down the tail group meant to shed away in a crash nylon bolts could serve in the purpose and has on larger planes. Nylon bolts come in all sizes these days.

What does it take to save a plane besides the above mentioned, quality servos? Perhaps two switches and all things hard wired to the RX leaving only the aircraft design or operator to fail in his flying skills.

aspeed

The Fox .15 isn't really that light, or even powerful. I think it would hold up in a crash though. Much better than the OS LA or whatever you were using for the SSC. I only used it in the Wonder because I needed some noseweight, the FP .15 was way too light, and I needed to extend the motor mount out and still add two oz. I just used the Fox. It is really a pretty nice motor. Idles very low, and pulls a big prop, if needed. It would suck to go through a lot of motors, it is bad enough fixing planes for combat.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Back in the day when most RC pilots had extensive FF experience, I'll bet they were very clever about how to limit damage.
The most shocking thing you'll ever see is a Nelson .36 powered AMA Combat plane hit the ground at full speed and be relaunched after a prop change 45 seconds after the crash. It doesn't always work out that way, but I've seen it happen so many times that it isn't anything to write home about. The Russian built ARFs [combat planes] look like archery bows...the plan is to bend but not break.
I arranged my 1/2 A combat engine beams with 1 steel bolt through the center rib [instead of 2] so that it would swing when hitting the ground. I made this change / discovery after leaving for the field one day with just 1 bolt and giving it a try instead of turning around and going home.

aspeed

Those F2D planes amaze me with the crashes they survive. Over 100 mph, and maybe a dent on the wingtip. Midairs, well, not always so lucky. I think the weight means a lot for surviving. So much for SSC? I have noticed my little planes smack down pretty good on bad launches, and there is often no damage. A larger plane will never come out of that. Having said that, I have to fix a little one now that broke because the bolts didn't give.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I've heard that the guys who fly a lot of SSC use plastic cutting boards for engine mounts. They are quick, cheap, easy and I think they help limit engine damage.
I've rarely destroyed any engines from crashes until I came across Slow Survivable Combat. The wood mounts I built didn't seem overly built and the crashes weren't exactly amazing but both engines had cracks originate at a backplate screw and travel forward [like the cylinder lacked a little support].
The worst that ever happened with 1/2 A combat [RC] was losing an engine after a mid air in the tall grass.

aspeed

The SPADs (simple plastic airplane designs which I really like) all use the cutting boards, and a lot of them were designed for the combat. I used a cutting board on a control line one that I made, and broke it when I didn't quite pull out of a horizontal 8, and it broke. It tore off the tank too, and if there was a throttle it likely would have ruined the servo arm as well. I made a new one out of 1/4" Lexan because I didn't have a large enough piece of cutting board. The Lexan flexes so much, that bubbles form in the fuel line. I am sure it would break in a crash though, but hopefully I won't test that out again. Maybe nylon motor mount bolts? if they don't back out or break from running. I had been thinking of using aluminum bolts to hold on mufflers, not that I crash that much, but I have got a lot of used ones with broken flanges on the motor, especially Supertigers with the big heavy muffler they use.