Pond Skipper

14.13oz fuselage / fuel proofed / stabs done / all the gear short of mounting the switch and foam for batts / RX
Still need to bind and set up the servos but for the most part this major portion of the build is completed.

The Rx will go behind the servos a Spectrum AR400 /5.7g plenty of room in a rolled ply fuselage.
There is an additional power lead coming out of the batts to the front hatch for charging.
As noted before the fuel cell is closer to the CG to reduce CG change as the 2oz tank empties out.

This leaves me down to completing wing not sure yet on a single wing bolt or rubber bands.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Nice work..!
Nice and compact but still room for padding.

Pond Skipper

I set up the receiver today and mounted a micro size MPI switch, set the elevator and throttle servo, fabricated an aluminum stinger bracket with a silicon sleeve. With all that done it was too tempting to start up the engine and test throttle servo settings and fuel draw with my tank and pressure tap set up. Additionally I had bored out and polished the carburetors venturi a week ago and was curious if the task gained some more rpm in conjunction to a cleaner tank / fuel line setup than on the test bench.

APC 5x3 was on the engine so compared to my previous reading of 24.7K

Results per APC power chart:
25.372 rpm/179w / 25.92oz thrust

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

You've got her all shined up and ready for a test drive..!
I've never looked at the APC Power Chart [didn't know they had one].
Your results validate the results I was getting with my 1/2 A Bench Press-o-meter.

Pond Skipper

Yes had to polish the bracket to match the rest. All fuel proofed and gear foamed up fuse completely done I had to mess with it. Do you have a pic of your thrust meter setup?

APC Performance Data Files

https://www.apcprop.com/v/PERFILES_W...tDatafiles.asp

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

APC's research is slightly more exhaustive than what I did.......

I don't have a photo of my test sled, but it was a sliding engine mount that the prop pulled vertically. I used 1/2" steel nuts that weighed .6 ozs each for ballast. Once I found equilibrium, I'd tap the sliding "gondola" to make sure the sliding mechanism was free before declaring the test pull was over.
The slide was a pair of 3/16" or 1/4" steel rods anchored at both ends into lumber. I used hollow kite tubes that were an easy fit over the steel rods and attached the engine mount to the kite tubes.
The biggest downside to this set up was ruining two AP.061s [in short secession]. They just weren't meant to be ran vertically. After wearing out the first engine's crankcase, I chalked it up to bad luck, figuring that the original fit was defective. After [quickly] smoking a 2nd engine, I decided that maybe it was not a good idea to continue.

Pond Skipper

Oh boy that bites, I hope it was back in the day when those engines where cheaper and still in the stores. Common thrust stand is a L shape, should there be any engine / fuel weight effecting the scale you just zero out the scale prior to starting up. Could have it with servo control on the throttle for hands free observations.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The AP.061 engines back then held their price at $30 for quite some time with Tower Hobbies.
At that price they were a great value because they were ready to run and the power level was just right for slow but steady combat matches.

Mr Cox

I like the simplicity and sheer ingenuity of the device, no batteries, torque calculations or other things that can go wrong....

Pond Skipper

Hey Kris how goes, yes it is a pure power to weight test of thrustahrooO

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It's even more simple and crude than I remembered..!
I have seen a really nicely made model engine dyno that directly measures engine torque. From there, you take RPM and plug it into one of the HP equations.
I believe one of the major model magazines did a feature article on this.

Pond Skipper

Welp I couldn't help myself bought a GS Pro V12RR
Claims to be a high torque / power new generation design.
Rated at 1.4hp at 41k


Thinking a 5.5x5 at 31K (unloaded)148mph
Say 27.5k static 2lb thrust at 503w /
$43 shipped new old stock from 2006
Will report back in on this one after I set it up.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

High Torque
That seems like an odd claim for a car engine since they operate under pretty steep gear reduction.
Giving a rating at 41K, obviously hitting the pipe very hard for $43..!
This is a real interesting project to see how much prop it can handle and still deliver that level of power. I'd break it in with what the car guys use for a load.

Pond Skipper

Yea I won this during a bidding war on ebay. Did find two sites 1 selling them for 80 plus shipping the other wants 99 euro / 110.83. Back in 2006 like most new engines dropping on the scene it fetched a premium price.

I will try a synthetic / castor blend 35% nitro with the MAC 10-15 size pipe.

A car review site had challenged the manufactures claim with a dyno read of:

aspeed

3 port, 5 port? That 41,000 rpm will have no bearing on a plane. Even the cars need the power at half the rpm going through the corners. It is good to know the motor will hold up to it though. There is a Novarossi 2000 .21 with high rpm claims like that too. The plane guys seem to do well at 24,000 rpm. The Picco .12 that I converted did no better than the cheap AP .15 (.135) on a little prop. It pulled a 7-5" M Airscrew at 18,300 and 22,000 with a pipe. I could not adjust the needle with the pipe, so am sure more was there. That made it stronger than any .15 that I have, including the Fora combat. I think it is heavier than most .15s as well, but I am still happy with it.

Pond Skipper

Hi Alan,

I plan to do the remote needle trick like with the .07 there are a few other .12 now doing 41k plus.
This one has a 5mm shaft - 3 ports and an exhaust port will open it up to confirm was mentioned
by another car guy. I want to run 5.5x5 and let it scream with a 3ch plane 6x4 will be tried too.
Should be something fun to mess with for the price I snagged it at.

Really I will have to check the stock timing and match up the rpms to the given length of the MAC pipe with no header to run the right prop load weather its done in pitch or dia. is the plan.

aspeed

This is quite a bit bigger than an .049. I would let the prop do some work, 6-6" or something like that, and then match the pipe before cutting up the motor. It is likely ported for a pipe. maybe 160 degrees or something already. The three port motors are well suited to the planes, from what I was told.

Mr Cox

I've "converted" a Picco .12 (7-ports) and it runs quite well, certainly the strongest .12 engine that I have. The power to weight ratio is rather modest though, and unless one is doing some .12 competition is doesn't make so much sense...

With an MVVS muffler it turns an APC 7x4 at about 18700rpm, so about 1500rpm up on the ASP .12, but still about 1000rpm shy of a bone stock ASP .15 XLS engine...

Pond Skipper

Alan,
The MAC pipe will be around 9in to piston face the pipe itself has about a 8in window is the control factor using the tune pipe formula I need to be unloaded at 31.6k.
I wont mod the timing of the engine.. my guess its at 170 deg. we shall see if so: 1675 x 170 deg divided by 9 in for 31.6k


Kris,
I wonder if the engine will open up more unloaded in the air above a ASP .15 have you flight tested the Picco?

I have two new in the box engines to compare size / weight a Magnum XLS .15 and ASP .12 neither are rear exhaust which RE has better flow / power in theory.

aspeed

I would not expect too much out of your ASP .12, but the blue head XLS should give some good numbers. Mine did well with a turbo plug, and no muffler. I don't have a header to try a pipe with. My little LA & FP .10's were in the middle 17,000 rpm range with the M Airscrew 7-4". The Picco .12 I did, had a .187" carb and read 18,300, no muffler, and 22,600 with the Ucktam pipe which is preset at about 11.5" from the end to the piston. I have read it is set for about 25,000. The Picco was using the 7-5" MA G3 that I used on all the .15 tests that I did. I found a couple pics of it here. I am building a shop, and moving this year, so will not be flying too much till maybe next year. It is kind of a strange size with a .12 and the .07 for competition. I just thought any Picco is worth picking up new for $20. The fits looked good right off the bat with no running on it. It just had my name on it.

Pond Skipper

Wow Alan you stole it at 20 bucks!!!! Where did you source that spinner nut?
I would do the same most of the good rear exhaust .12 are well over 100
Chuck was able to make the ASP .12 scream on a small prop I enjoyed
one of his posted vids of the effort it was moving out past 120 mph as I recall.

The Skorch II has enough firewall to support the .12 size engines and may
very well see one on the front end once I have enjoyed the .07. Originally
the next step was to try the TD .09 but this rear exhaust .12 will set up high
enough to clear the pipe I think. If so it will be scary fast for its size. When
I sized the firewall up I used a TD.15 Special and engine mount as the max
limit. Should be fun to see whats possible with the plane and slew of engines
collected on the ready. The only engine type missing was a car engine such
as the GS Pro V12RR.

Possible Engines I have on hand.
Picco .052
Fuji .05
Sportswerkz .05
Vertigo .07
Norvel .07
TD .09
AP .09
V12RR
ASP .12
TD .15 Special
Mark II .15

Could use but wont
Norvel .061
AP .061
G Mark .061
QB .07
Sportsman .15
Olympic .15
OS .10
GP .10

aspeed

You seem to collect a lot of little guys. I have a lot of those too. I made the stepped spinner nut, knurled drive washer, venturi and nipple/venturi hold down. I used a remote needle for the test. I have probably made over 100 spinner nuts because I hate being at the field and not being able to use a prop in a hurry, or having it rub, or not being able to use the starter.

Mr Cox

The Picco has not been flown, I've only bench tested it. It will most likely perform better on smaller props. There are also the Novarossi/Rex engines in .12 (side exhaust only) and .15 (rear exhaust, turbo plugs etc.) which are dedicated to airplanes. I have one of their .12 but haven't gotten around to running it yet. Too many engines and not enough time...

aspeed

I am hoping for a Novarossi .28 to pick up for a song. I would like to try a control line B speed maybe in a proto design so I can use it at the local rc field. I can see 150 mph and could hope to see the 200 mph club with nitro, and maybe the old rules for lines. I had one in my hand at the Perry Georgia swap meet a few years ago, and had already blown my Florida vacation budget, so I left it there. Now the dollar has tanked, and shipping etc, would double the price. I think it was only $150 for the airplane example. I may put an ad up at the hobby shop here. There is a track, and everyone is going electric now.

Pond Skipper

[h=2]Novarossi Engine Plane 2,10cc REF.12[/h]
[TABLE="width: 408"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 137, bgcolor: transparent"]Displacement[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 105, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 166, bgcolor: transparent"]2.10cc.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Max. power[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]1,35 Hp.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]R.P.M (Max. power)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]37.000 R.P.M.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Practical range[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]2.000 ~ 43.500 R.P.M.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Bore x stroke[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]13,80mm x 14.04mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Sleeve[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]N. Transfer ports[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]N. 3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"] Novarossi .12 rear exhaust aircraft engine[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Ideal for Brads Skorch II [/TD]
[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]08654












[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]