Ply Rolled Fuselage Part Deux - 1/2A " Mini Skorch "
11-06-2015, 07:29 PM
#1127
Thread Starter
Yes sort of more like a fish really as the size is more side profile than anything. I sourced a 4" spinner for
reasonable price otherwise cost can be a bit much rough for quality aluminum spinners this size.
Tru Turn is king in low weight which is key if this build if it is to work but they are also king in price.
Great Planes makes a 4" for their Ultimate Pipe for $25 shipped looks like a Tru Turn knock off.
So in order for this drawing to work each square needs to represent 1.5 squares per inch full size.
About 2.5in worth of the APC 8.75 x 9.5 NN prop will be sticking out based on the prop cutouts.
So blade showing will be 5 x 9.5 perhaps near the load of a fully exposed 9x5
reasonable price otherwise cost can be a bit much rough for quality aluminum spinners this size.
Tru Turn is king in low weight which is key if this build if it is to work but they are also king in price.
Great Planes makes a 4" for their Ultimate Pipe for $25 shipped looks like a Tru Turn knock off.
So in order for this drawing to work each square needs to represent 1.5 squares per inch full size.
About 2.5in worth of the APC 8.75 x 9.5 NN prop will be sticking out based on the prop cutouts.
So blade showing will be 5 x 9.5 perhaps near the load of a fully exposed 9x5
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-06-2015 at 07:40 PM.
11-06-2015, 07:58 PM
#1128
One of the fastest fish ..the Bonita has this sort of a shape.
I've got a great little foam rubber football that has an aft section like this drawing molded into it. It really flies much better than a conventional football. Some models have a built in air whistle to give it a real bomb sound.
I have heard of DIY light weight composite spinners being built, so don't forget that possibility if weight becomes an obstacle. If the .26 can be hand started, that is.
Nothing like the sense of accomplishment knowing that you made a foam / FG spinner that's spinning flawlessly at 12,000...?
I've got a great little foam rubber football that has an aft section like this drawing molded into it. It really flies much better than a conventional football. Some models have a built in air whistle to give it a real bomb sound.
I have heard of DIY light weight composite spinners being built, so don't forget that possibility if weight becomes an obstacle. If the .26 can be hand started, that is.
Nothing like the sense of accomplishment knowing that you made a foam / FG spinner that's spinning flawlessly at 12,000...?
11-06-2015, 08:37 PM
#1129
Thread Starter
Well target rpm is 14k I have many hours on two other engines a OS .20 Surpass and another .26 Surpass so I know what they can make power wise per plane size of 4 other past builds. Here is the thing I want to use a aluminum spinner as the theme will have more aluminum involved. Otherwise there are some lovely carbon spinners out there about half the weight. Winter is approaching so building season is going to be kicking in this project and the V12RR engine project are two I would like to knock out next. I am want to form a thin aluminum belly pan for this one if its going to be a belly lander and a aluminum engine hatch. Brushed aluminum rather than polished to help mask landing scratches on the belly pan and the spinner.
Ode to flaunting ridiculous over sized nose art of ye ol aluminum spinner with a function or two.
Yes think I have seen that football the tail helps it track perfect every throw.
The spinner is acting like a section of the sled as the prop pops out of the way
It also allows me to dig into high pitch prop selections for speed. I liked the
26 at high rpm's the car guys run them to 19k I use to run them close to 14k
they make a nice loud whaling sound at that rpm for effect. I would run
without the optional aluminum muffler just the steel header pipe for tad more
power. This build is for eye candy slow flying that transitions to extraordinary
top end speed from a uncanny craft type. No Cub or trainer plane or war bird here.
Ode to flaunting ridiculous over sized nose art of ye ol aluminum spinner with a function or two.
Yes think I have seen that football the tail helps it track perfect every throw.
The spinner is acting like a section of the sled as the prop pops out of the way
It also allows me to dig into high pitch prop selections for speed. I liked the
26 at high rpm's the car guys run them to 19k I use to run them close to 14k
they make a nice loud whaling sound at that rpm for effect. I would run
without the optional aluminum muffler just the steel header pipe for tad more
power. This build is for eye candy slow flying that transitions to extraordinary
top end speed from a uncanny craft type. No Cub or trainer plane or war bird here.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 04:16 AM.
11-06-2015, 10:00 PM
#1130
I've never done any aluminum bowl shaping but it's incredible what you can do with old fashion hand tools from what I've seen in a book I have that was written by Ron Fournier. It's part of the HP Book library of automotive crafts, probably still $15 or so.
After you get warmed up with this belly pan, you could give this one a try...?
After you get warmed up with this belly pan, you could give this one a try...?
11-06-2015, 11:10 PM
#1131
Thread Starter
Shaaweeeet!
The aluminum I have is thin from K&S and will just about rap around to shape
with some hand forming for a flush fit. Will scratch up the inside and epoxy in
place with decoration micro screws drilled and set. I have formed a Eindecker
cowl out of thicker T6 aluminum had to hammer over a wood shape to form the
front rounded lip more like a Sopwith Camel. Can use the round leather forming
pad to hammer shapes great for bowls. Two part access system aluminum cowl
connects to the cockpit area that section will use magnets the metal cowl will use
small hex head screws some fake.
Ok found a P-51 Tru Turn Spinner for $20 Free shipping the person listed
it new. Says P-51 on the package they listed it as a Ultimate spinner.
Average price 50 to 60 bucks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621404587...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
So Im stuck with this shape in order to get known quality and low weight.
The aluminum I have is thin from K&S and will just about rap around to shape
with some hand forming for a flush fit. Will scratch up the inside and epoxy in
place with decoration micro screws drilled and set. I have formed a Eindecker
cowl out of thicker T6 aluminum had to hammer over a wood shape to form the
front rounded lip more like a Sopwith Camel. Can use the round leather forming
pad to hammer shapes great for bowls. Two part access system aluminum cowl
connects to the cockpit area that section will use magnets the metal cowl will use
small hex head screws some fake.
Ok found a P-51 Tru Turn Spinner for $20 Free shipping the person listed
it new. Says P-51 on the package they listed it as a Ultimate spinner.
Average price 50 to 60 bucks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621404587...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
So Im stuck with this shape in order to get known quality and low weight.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 01:29 AM.
11-07-2015, 03:25 AM
#1132
Thread Starter
This spinner is full size at 3.5in. if you have a big enough monitor.
Prop length is actual too if a 8.75x9.5 works out.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 04:35 AM.
11-07-2015, 06:19 AM
#1133
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There is an English wheel at the vintage aircraft museum I'm a member of.. it is shrouded in mystique and most people just make perfunctory attempts at small simple parts and wish they knew what they were doing. Everyone seems to have heard of some guy who can make motorcycle fenders, Jag XK120 bodies, and jewelry on one, but I have yet to meet this person.
11-07-2015, 12:33 PM
#1134
Thread Starter
Lugging this much spinner could only be done with a 4cyl engine.
If: 11.2k with the 9.5P / 100mph
9,500 rpm / 86 mph
The FAI 3in spinner with the cut outs on the back plate 1.7oz
Will call up Tru Turn for cost on their 3.5in light weight back plate.
If: 11.2k with the 9.5P / 100mph
9,500 rpm / 86 mph
The FAI 3in spinner with the cut outs on the back plate 1.7oz
Will call up Tru Turn for cost on their 3.5in light weight back plate.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 12:40 PM.
11-07-2015, 01:01 PM
#1136
Thread Starter
Yes very true
The engine has good size bearings doing lower rpms might be ok if I get the light weight back plate. Should keep things under 2.3oz.
The FAI spinner would be a safer route at 1.7oz. This P-51 spinner at 20 bucks shipped was a rare find so can use perhaps with the Satio 72 on another project if I can source option B at a reasonable price.
The engine has good size bearings doing lower rpms might be ok if I get the light weight back plate. Should keep things under 2.3oz.
The FAI spinner would be a safer route at 1.7oz. This P-51 spinner at 20 bucks shipped was a rare find so can use perhaps with the Satio 72 on another project if I can source option B at a reasonable price.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 01:20 PM.
11-07-2015, 01:17 PM
#1137
There is a way to increase the bearing's load rating, but it is a little bit tricky.
You have to disassemble a standard BB, discard the retainer and then pack as many balls [original O.D. replacement balls] into it as you can. In order to do this, half circle ruts need to be ground into the side of the inner and outer races to allow the extra balls an entry into the races.
You have to disassemble a standard BB, discard the retainer and then pack as many balls [original O.D. replacement balls] into it as you can. In order to do this, half circle ruts need to be ground into the side of the inner and outer races to allow the extra balls an entry into the races.
11-07-2015, 01:24 PM
#1138
Thread Starter
Wow nope nope not going thru all that.
I did buy a rebuild kit for the engine for later down the road as they are
becoming rare, has new bearings in the kit. FAI spinner looks doable.
Back in the day I used a CB Associates 2.25 spinner on one of these
engines thicker walled aluminum just more beef all around the engine
had many many flights without any troubles, grinding or wobble.
Ok redesign for the FAI 3.5in spinner creates a bigger plane
may be better off with the 3in spinner good for less bearing load.
I did buy a rebuild kit for the engine for later down the road as they are
becoming rare, has new bearings in the kit. FAI spinner looks doable.
Back in the day I used a CB Associates 2.25 spinner on one of these
engines thicker walled aluminum just more beef all around the engine
had many many flights without any troubles, grinding or wobble.
Ok redesign for the FAI 3.5in spinner creates a bigger plane
may be better off with the 3in spinner good for less bearing load.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 01:49 PM.
11-07-2015, 06:09 PM
#1140
Thread Starter
The FAI version is 24" L x 6" W still within the range of the engine.
$74.95 on the Tru Turn site for the 3.5in light weight version of the spinner ouch!
$64 if you go with a solid back plate. They will custom slot the prop of your selection
for $9.50 they claim to have hundreds of props on hand to match what you want.
$248 for a 6in Ultimate spinner
The Skorch II had 11g of lead added but had to take it off as the 2 deg pos incidence, semi symmetrical airfoil along with a large span produced so much lift. I still had to dial in a 2 clicks of down elevator nice glide ratio.
$74.95 on the Tru Turn site for the 3.5in light weight version of the spinner ouch!
$64 if you go with a solid back plate. They will custom slot the prop of your selection
for $9.50 they claim to have hundreds of props on hand to match what you want.
$248 for a 6in Ultimate spinner
The Skorch II had 11g of lead added but had to take it off as the 2 deg pos incidence, semi symmetrical airfoil along with a large span produced so much lift. I still had to dial in a 2 clicks of down elevator nice glide ratio.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-07-2015 at 06:52 PM.
11-07-2015, 08:31 PM
#1142
Thread Starter
Yea they state CNC machined from billet aluminum and balanced. I guess you are paying
for the mill time and then the pile of aluminum they keep.
I have bought a few over the years sold off with the planes,currently only have three a 2in
and 1.75in and now the 3.5in spinner in the mail will be the biggest yet. Will just have to
source a FAI version on ebay for less, no way I want to pay the retail price.
for the mill time and then the pile of aluminum they keep.
I have bought a few over the years sold off with the planes,currently only have three a 2in
and 1.75in and now the 3.5in spinner in the mail will be the biggest yet. Will just have to
source a FAI version on ebay for less, no way I want to pay the retail price.
11-08-2015, 01:37 AM
#1143
Thread Starter
Looking at the options now 3" or 3.5" FAI spinners.
The faster plane would fair best with the 3" spinner but things will be tight up front
the 4oz fuel tank will be over the CG is a plus. Size wise my best chance to hit
my speed goals. All sorts of prop options with large spinners.
- 3in Spinner: fuse 23.5" span 8.5" x 4" x 29" / 180 Sq.in. will slide in fast on calm days
- 3.5in Spinner: fuse 26" span 9.5" x 4.5" x 32" / 224 Sq.in. easy landings all days
Good old carbon tube could slot the removable wing panels on or an integrated
belly pan / wing held on with two nylon bolts with impact capacity to shear.
.
The faster plane would fair best with the 3" spinner but things will be tight up front
the 4oz fuel tank will be over the CG is a plus. Size wise my best chance to hit
my speed goals. All sorts of prop options with large spinners.
- 3in Spinner: fuse 23.5" span 8.5" x 4" x 29" / 180 Sq.in. will slide in fast on calm days
- 3.5in Spinner: fuse 26" span 9.5" x 4.5" x 32" / 224 Sq.in. easy landings all days
Good old carbon tube could slot the removable wing panels on or an integrated
belly pan / wing held on with two nylon bolts with impact capacity to shear.
.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-08-2015 at 05:19 AM.
11-08-2015, 11:59 AM
#1144
A removable pan below the wing would give you a discreet access into the plane.
I'd be curious to know what the sales figures were for the OS .20 & .26 over the years.
Would the first year of a new engine be slow until the reviews come out..?
My self imposed moratorium on engine purchases might be lifted someday [after selling off some dust collectors]...and it would be fun to have a 4 stroke that would work for small warbirds.
I'd be curious to know what the sales figures were for the OS .20 & .26 over the years.
Would the first year of a new engine be slow until the reviews come out..?
My self imposed moratorium on engine purchases might be lifted someday [after selling off some dust collectors]...and it would be fun to have a 4 stroke that would work for small warbirds.
11-08-2015, 03:53 PM
#1145
Thread Starter
You have to buy one - part of the bucket list,
Just don't get the .20 (unless free or less than 50 bucks) The .26 is a good boost in power a bit taller than the .20 otherwise same size. I have owned two of the 26 and one of the 20's. I bought the 20 first soon as the 26 came out the 20 never saw the light of day again.
I just tested my .26 bought off ebay used with some use but clean with box and all the tools along with rocker arm gauges for reseting / adjusting. Today was the first time tested and set up the idle and top end. After a few mins of rich running
to get out the after run oil and clear any deposits I set up the top end to just a tad rich to be kind and insure this lil jewel
is getting a chance of another break in. The 30 is the way to go but will fetch premium price. Good value for price is still out there for the 26.
Results with a 9x7 Master Airscrew Scimitar S-2 Prop with a
Tru Turn 1.75 spinner measured 3.75in per exposed blade total 7.5in
Aprox .25" forward gain off the slope of the spinner. If your looking for
thrust and speed this prop delivers it was dragging the test stand a
4ft 1x6" pine plank laying on a towel. The MA Scimitar is a popular
choice with this engine the 10x5 if for pure thrust with peppy throttle rpm.
More top end speed with the 10x6 with typical throttle response.
The 9x7 gives typical throttle response which is outstanding all the same.
The APC props ultimately have a boarder range of choices depending on
spinner size and in the long run with some testing you can sort out the
very best performance for the given application.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2dtx22Zy8&feature=youtu.be Published on Nov 8, 2015
Bench tested: OS .26 Surpass 4 cyl. engine
Master Airscrew 9x7 Scimitar S-2 Prop
10,981 to 11,143 bit rich as this is a jewel of an engine.
74 mph static estimate 12,700 unloaded for 84 mph.
25% nitro 14% castor 8% synthetic.
Tru Turn 1.75in Aluminum sport spinner.
Based on the above results with the larger 3in spinner covering up
a good portion of the blades I would expect 13.5k ish unloaded
for 90 mph. With less blade showing thrust will be less but the
speed should be good and sweet sound effects. Tested with the
muffler as I was indoors if without the suppressor you get a more
top end to help motivate and louder sound which is a plus if your
a fan of 4 strokes.
Other static reslults online vids:
OS FS 26S:
MA10x6 no muffler 11,304 rpm / 3.64lbs thrust / 64mph
MA10x6 no muffler 10,174rpm
.41 bhp at 11k
pactical rpm 2.2k to 12k static.
9x5 to 10.5x6 / 8x6 -7 3blade
Weight 9.4oz / OS Type F plug
OS FS 30S:
12x6 with muffler / 7,105 rpm
APC 11x4 / 9,528 rpm / 5% nitro
APC 10x4 / 9470 with
Top Flite13x6 / 6720 / 3.45lbs thrust / 38mph
pactical rpm 2.5k to 13k static
.51 bph at 10,000 rpm
weight 9.56oz
ASP FS 30AR:
10x7 with muffler 10x7 / 8720 rpm
10x4 with muff / 9528 / 10%
APC 9x6 / 10,497 with muff
Magnum XL 30 -
10x6 with muffler 5% nitro / 10,500 rpm
9.5x6 with muff 9,894
Saito FA 30-S:
APC 9x6 10,981 15% nitro with muffler
APC 9x6 / 10,820 / 10% with muff.
10x6 / 10,320 with muff.
Kyosho FW 05cc 4- stroke:
no load over 16k
The sad thing is so many dooffusses post vids with no mention of the prop size.
They even tach it and for what means nothing with out the prop size and of
course would be nice to know the nitro %
Just don't get the .20 (unless free or less than 50 bucks) The .26 is a good boost in power a bit taller than the .20 otherwise same size. I have owned two of the 26 and one of the 20's. I bought the 20 first soon as the 26 came out the 20 never saw the light of day again.
I just tested my .26 bought off ebay used with some use but clean with box and all the tools along with rocker arm gauges for reseting / adjusting. Today was the first time tested and set up the idle and top end. After a few mins of rich running
to get out the after run oil and clear any deposits I set up the top end to just a tad rich to be kind and insure this lil jewel
is getting a chance of another break in. The 30 is the way to go but will fetch premium price. Good value for price is still out there for the 26.
Results with a 9x7 Master Airscrew Scimitar S-2 Prop with a
Tru Turn 1.75 spinner measured 3.75in per exposed blade total 7.5in
Aprox .25" forward gain off the slope of the spinner. If your looking for
thrust and speed this prop delivers it was dragging the test stand a
4ft 1x6" pine plank laying on a towel. The MA Scimitar is a popular
choice with this engine the 10x5 if for pure thrust with peppy throttle rpm.
More top end speed with the 10x6 with typical throttle response.
The 9x7 gives typical throttle response which is outstanding all the same.
The APC props ultimately have a boarder range of choices depending on
spinner size and in the long run with some testing you can sort out the
very best performance for the given application.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2dtx22Zy8&feature=youtu.be Published on Nov 8, 2015
Bench tested: OS .26 Surpass 4 cyl. engine
Master Airscrew 9x7 Scimitar S-2 Prop
10,981 to 11,143 bit rich as this is a jewel of an engine.
74 mph static estimate 12,700 unloaded for 84 mph.
25% nitro 14% castor 8% synthetic.
Tru Turn 1.75in Aluminum sport spinner.
Based on the above results with the larger 3in spinner covering up
a good portion of the blades I would expect 13.5k ish unloaded
for 90 mph. With less blade showing thrust will be less but the
speed should be good and sweet sound effects. Tested with the
muffler as I was indoors if without the suppressor you get a more
top end to help motivate and louder sound which is a plus if your
a fan of 4 strokes.
Other static reslults online vids:
OS FS 26S:
MA10x6 no muffler 11,304 rpm / 3.64lbs thrust / 64mph
MA10x6 no muffler 10,174rpm
.41 bhp at 11k
pactical rpm 2.2k to 12k static.
9x5 to 10.5x6 / 8x6 -7 3blade
Weight 9.4oz / OS Type F plug
OS FS 30S:
12x6 with muffler / 7,105 rpm
APC 11x4 / 9,528 rpm / 5% nitro
APC 10x4 / 9470 with
Top Flite13x6 / 6720 / 3.45lbs thrust / 38mph
pactical rpm 2.5k to 13k static
.51 bph at 10,000 rpm
weight 9.56oz
ASP FS 30AR:
10x7 with muffler 10x7 / 8720 rpm
10x4 with muff / 9528 / 10%
APC 9x6 / 10,497 with muff
Magnum XL 30 -
10x6 with muffler 5% nitro / 10,500 rpm
9.5x6 with muff 9,894
Saito FA 30-S:
APC 9x6 10,981 15% nitro with muffler
APC 9x6 / 10,820 / 10% with muff.
10x6 / 10,320 with muff.
Kyosho FW 05cc 4- stroke:
no load over 16k
The sad thing is so many dooffusses post vids with no mention of the prop size.
They even tach it and for what means nothing with out the prop size and of
course would be nice to know the nitro %
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-08-2015 at 09:22 PM.
11-08-2015, 05:18 PM
#1147
Thread Starter
OS FS 26S:
MA10x6 no muffler 11,304 rpm 3.64lbs / 58oz static
OS FS 30S: with muffler
APC 11x4 / 9,528 rpm / 5% nitro / 3.77lbs / 60.31oz static
Today my .26 / MA 9x7 /11,143 / 2.2lbs of thrust with muffler.
About 2.6 lbs without muffler set up for speed.
Based on the above 8.5x8 11.3k static 1.89lbs / 30oz thrust
320w / 86mph Unloaded anticipate 12.8k / 97 mph.
A 250sq. in simple balsa Quickie style plane could be completed
around 24oz with a 8x9 at 12.7k unloaded 108mph. Of course
need to run it without the muffler. The OS 30 should bust 13k.
Here are the replacement bearings a good size step up to
insure the chance longevity.
MA10x6 no muffler 11,304 rpm 3.64lbs / 58oz static
OS FS 30S: with muffler
APC 11x4 / 9,528 rpm / 5% nitro / 3.77lbs / 60.31oz static
Today my .26 / MA 9x7 /11,143 / 2.2lbs of thrust with muffler.
About 2.6 lbs without muffler set up for speed.
Based on the above 8.5x8 11.3k static 1.89lbs / 30oz thrust
320w / 86mph Unloaded anticipate 12.8k / 97 mph.
A 250sq. in simple balsa Quickie style plane could be completed
around 24oz with a 8x9 at 12.7k unloaded 108mph. Of course
need to run it without the muffler. The OS 30 should bust 13k.
Here are the replacement bearings a good size step up to
insure the chance longevity.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-08-2015 at 09:59 PM.
11-09-2015, 02:37 PM
#1148
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For excitement in the vertical it would need a .25. Or maybe a .26 FS. But it is sporty and fun.
11-10-2015, 01:36 AM
#1149
Thread Starter
Yea I hear ya Mike, there really needs to be at least 1.3 :1 thrust ratio to ring out the vertical lines and recover quick from acro maneuvers.
Looking at my bench tests results if I wanted to just hone down a simple plane that
would fair well with known power and reasonable estimated results from other props.
Known: FS .26S
MA 9x7 /11,143 / 2.2lbs of thrust with muffler.
Without muffler est. 11,7k / 2.6 lbs
Prop for thrust or all out speed:
10x6 / 3.64 Lbs straight up at 68mph
9x7 / 13.3k / 88 mph.
8x8 /12.9k / 97
8x9 / 12.4k / 106
7x9.5 / 13.3k / 120
Simple all balsa box fuse with only minimal ply for firewall and landing gear with with two SIG wing panels back to back. Weight would be reasonably low with forward foam tires for 4ch fun taxi, take offs, landings and mix of sport acro / speed flying.
7x9.5 / 13.3k / 120mph
Looking at my bench tests results if I wanted to just hone down a simple plane that
would fair well with known power and reasonable estimated results from other props.
Known: FS .26S
MA 9x7 /11,143 / 2.2lbs of thrust with muffler.
Without muffler est. 11,7k / 2.6 lbs
Prop for thrust or all out speed:
10x6 / 3.64 Lbs straight up at 68mph
9x7 / 13.3k / 88 mph.
8x8 /12.9k / 97
8x9 / 12.4k / 106
7x9.5 / 13.3k / 120
Simple all balsa box fuse with only minimal ply for firewall and landing gear with with two SIG wing panels back to back. Weight would be reasonably low with forward foam tires for 4ch fun taxi, take offs, landings and mix of sport acro / speed flying.
7x9.5 / 13.3k / 120mph
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 11-21-2015 at 07:40 AM.