Throttled TD .010
02-18-2004, 01:30 PM
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Throttled TD .010
Pictured are two custom made exhaust throttles installed on to TD .010s.
The first is based on the LiteMachines design and uses a "bullet" to intercept the exhaust gases. This engine also incorporates a "clank" tank/mount. Yes it clanks because its made of aluminum.
The second is my own design and in this case, it also sports a removable heat sink. Didn't seem to be necessary.
Both throttles work equally well. Unlike a sleeve, there's no loss of top end after installation. Idle is 9K and top is 25 to 26K. Idle is solid and reliable and transition is very good.
The first is based on the LiteMachines design and uses a "bullet" to intercept the exhaust gases. This engine also incorporates a "clank" tank/mount. Yes it clanks because its made of aluminum.
The second is my own design and in this case, it also sports a removable heat sink. Didn't seem to be necessary.
Both throttles work equally well. Unlike a sleeve, there's no loss of top end after installation. Idle is 9K and top is 25 to 26K. Idle is solid and reliable and transition is very good.
02-18-2004, 03:21 PM
#2
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RE: Throttled TD .010
Andy, those look great!
I really like the second one, it appears to use a butterfly valve or rotary valve- is that correct?
I find the comment on top end interesting. My .010s that I have run with sleeves turn higher on the top end than the figures you quoted and they idle down to approximately the same range. They do however take a small loss on the top end though as they turn even higher without the sleeve.
I am assuming you are stating that as a comparison of the before and after with the same engine?
BTW, have you played with head gaskets and different nitro/oil contents with those little beauties yet?
I really like the second one, it appears to use a butterfly valve or rotary valve- is that correct?
I find the comment on top end interesting. My .010s that I have run with sleeves turn higher on the top end than the figures you quoted and they idle down to approximately the same range. They do however take a small loss on the top end though as they turn even higher without the sleeve.
I am assuming you are stating that as a comparison of the before and after with the same engine?
BTW, have you played with head gaskets and different nitro/oil contents with those little beauties yet?
02-18-2004, 03:33 PM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
Thanks Matchless,
Yes, the second one has a simple rotary valve just like you have in a standard throttle.
Both of these engines have been run before under other circumstances and compression seal isn't the best so power is down overall. But, with or without the throttle there's no difference so the throttle doesn't affect the top end like a sleeve would.
I plan to do much more experimenting with both this summer,, yes, with compression and fuels. But that's after I install new pistons and cylinders with careful break in. I've heard that some of these can turn 30K on the stock prop. Maybe with 40% nitro and all castor fuel.
Hope to try these on a full house, exact scale Ugly Stik at 22" span and 4 ounces. Touch and goes on the roof of your wagon.
Yes, the second one has a simple rotary valve just like you have in a standard throttle.
Both of these engines have been run before under other circumstances and compression seal isn't the best so power is down overall. But, with or without the throttle there's no difference so the throttle doesn't affect the top end like a sleeve would.
I plan to do much more experimenting with both this summer,, yes, with compression and fuels. But that's after I install new pistons and cylinders with careful break in. I've heard that some of these can turn 30K on the stock prop. Maybe with 40% nitro and all castor fuel.
Hope to try these on a full house, exact scale Ugly Stik at 22" span and 4 ounces. Touch and goes on the roof of your wagon.
02-20-2004, 03:56 AM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
very good looking,
Might be a winner for some of the larger TDs. If you can please get a picture of it while it is off the engine.
How many pieces are combined to make it, and what does it weigh?
Sorry for the questions, but that looks like one of the better ideas I have seen.
Might be a winner for some of the larger TDs. If you can please get a picture of it while it is off the engine.
How many pieces are combined to make it, and what does it weigh?
Sorry for the questions, but that looks like one of the better ideas I have seen.
02-20-2004, 07:16 AM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
MR Flyer57,
Pictured is my test bed, rotary exhaust throttle installed on to a TD .049. As you can see, it's bristling with pressure nipples the purpose of which are to investigate several ideas as to providing muffler pressure to the tank without actually using a muffler. While the picture shows a muffler installed, these experiments were done with it removed. Also tried was a method of fine tuning the amount of pressure delivered to the tank at idle to try and affect the mixture at idle. While I had some success in this regard, the device was just too complicated with way too much tubing running all over the place. A simple rotary valve, on its own, worked fine.
Pictured is my test bed, rotary exhaust throttle installed on to a TD .049. As you can see, it's bristling with pressure nipples the purpose of which are to investigate several ideas as to providing muffler pressure to the tank without actually using a muffler. While the picture shows a muffler installed, these experiments were done with it removed. Also tried was a method of fine tuning the amount of pressure delivered to the tank at idle to try and affect the mixture at idle. While I had some success in this regard, the device was just too complicated with way too much tubing running all over the place. A simple rotary valve, on its own, worked fine.
02-20-2004, 08:23 AM
#6
RE: Throttled TD .010
Very Cool![8D]
Man, one day i am going to have to get a 010. I have often thought about a throttled version, and how generally cool it would be.
mucho envio!
J.M
Man, one day i am going to have to get a 010. I have often thought about a throttled version, and how generally cool it would be.
mucho envio!
J.M
02-20-2004, 11:54 AM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
Thank you for your insight Andy,
This idea looks like the best one that I have seen for the throttle problem.
You might take a look at some of Dickybirds work on the throttled TDs (like you could have missed seeing them
) and think about choking down the venturi if you haven't already (I can't tell from the pictures).
I believe that if you took a Dickybird engine, and use your restricter system instead of the throttle sleave you might have the total package.
It does have a weight penalty as compared to Dickybirds, and there could be all kinds of reasons it wouldn't work, but I don't see any of them.
Thanks for the reply,
Mr Flyer57
This idea looks like the best one that I have seen for the throttle problem.
You might take a look at some of Dickybirds work on the throttled TDs (like you could have missed seeing them
) and think about choking down the venturi if you haven't already (I can't tell from the pictures). I believe that if you took a Dickybird engine, and use your restricter system instead of the throttle sleave you might have the total package.
It does have a weight penalty as compared to Dickybirds, and there could be all kinds of reasons it wouldn't work, but I don't see any of them.
Thanks for the reply,
Mr Flyer57
02-20-2004, 01:05 PM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
MR Flyer57,
Those are good points but what you see is a purely experimental device to test a number of ideas. Any final version would be much lighter, more like the muffler/throttle combo on the TD .020 posted elsewhere. A production version would be cast with only the bare minimum of metal required to do the job. The brass barrel would also be eliminated in favour of a nickle plated aluminum barrel.
About reducing the venturi. I believe I know why it's done for a sleeve but that was not found to be necessary for this throttle design. Also, this design isn't sensitive to sub-piston induction because there's room for the exhaust gases to expand into the exhaust collector.
I should point out to all that much of what has been posted recently was covered in my Flying Models article in the August 2001 issue called "Kit Bashing 1/2A Engines". My first article with FM was called "Kit Bashing 1/2A Carbs" in the May 97 issue. Much of what has been posted recently was done in the time span between the two articles.
Page 41 of the 2001 issue illustrates another test bed I did up to investigate whether intake timing had any effect on throttling. A custom made removable front end that carried TD components was bolted to a chopped up reed case. The front end had slots for the bolts allowing adjustment of the crank timing. I learned a lot from that little device.
Those are good points but what you see is a purely experimental device to test a number of ideas. Any final version would be much lighter, more like the muffler/throttle combo on the TD .020 posted elsewhere. A production version would be cast with only the bare minimum of metal required to do the job. The brass barrel would also be eliminated in favour of a nickle plated aluminum barrel.
About reducing the venturi. I believe I know why it's done for a sleeve but that was not found to be necessary for this throttle design. Also, this design isn't sensitive to sub-piston induction because there's room for the exhaust gases to expand into the exhaust collector.
I should point out to all that much of what has been posted recently was covered in my Flying Models article in the August 2001 issue called "Kit Bashing 1/2A Engines". My first article with FM was called "Kit Bashing 1/2A Carbs" in the May 97 issue. Much of what has been posted recently was done in the time span between the two articles.
Page 41 of the 2001 issue illustrates another test bed I did up to investigate whether intake timing had any effect on throttling. A custom made removable front end that carried TD components was bolted to a chopped up reed case. The front end had slots for the bolts allowing adjustment of the crank timing. I learned a lot from that little device.
02-20-2004, 04:23 PM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
Dang Hoss,
Is there anyone here that isn't writing articles? I am surrounded by such talent and inventiveness. I just hope a little rubs off
I feel like a janitor at the Manhattan project!!![:@]
I don't have the magazine or the article, but kudos for the effort. I will try to get a look at it.
Looks more and more like I am just going to have to break down and get a scrip to the Flying Models magazine!!
I am at a disadvantage, I should read the article and not try to make you relate ideas that have already been explained.
I guess I'm not the only one who thought this is a great idea.
Thanks for the reply, and I hope to get the print and take a look.
MR Flyer57
Is there anyone here that isn't writing articles? I am surrounded by such talent and inventiveness. I just hope a little rubs off
I feel like a janitor at the Manhattan project!!![:@]
I don't have the magazine or the article, but kudos for the effort. I will try to get a look at it.
Looks more and more like I am just going to have to break down and get a scrip to the Flying Models magazine!!
I am at a disadvantage, I should read the article and not try to make you relate ideas that have already been explained.
I guess I'm not the only one who thought this is a great idea.
Thanks for the reply, and I hope to get the print and take a look.
MR Flyer57
02-20-2004, 05:46 PM
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RE: Throttled TD .010
Send me a PM. I can send you copies of all my articles including the one for making skis for flying off of snow. You DO fly in the winter, don't you??
Seriously, I don't mind at all explaining my views and ideas on small aircraft. Done right, they are a real blast to fly, without being too fast or twitchy. See my comments on the Tsunami.
And YES, without Flying Models, we 1/2Aers would be lost in a wilderness of ARFs and firebreathing .40s. Like Seinfeld would say though, "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" [sm=lol.gif]
Seriously, I don't mind at all explaining my views and ideas on small aircraft. Done right, they are a real blast to fly, without being too fast or twitchy. See my comments on the Tsunami.
And YES, without Flying Models, we 1/2Aers would be lost in a wilderness of ARFs and firebreathing .40s. Like Seinfeld would say though, "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" [sm=lol.gif]
