Tale of two half-As
02-23-2004, 10:15 PM
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Tale of two half-As
Yes, both are .049s.
The one on the left is a CS .049, is made in China and sports ABC construction along with twin ball bearings. Rigged for its own tuned pipe, it was meant to be an all out competition engine.
On the right is the VA .049 MK1, the first new .049 to come out in a very long time. It came out over ten years ago and was my first true success in getting a 1/2A to throttle properly.
The CS is one of the heavier .049s to come out while the VA is certainly the very lightest. While the CS carries a throttle made by them, throttling isn't that good probably due to the radical timing required to run on a pipe.
The one on the left is a CS .049, is made in China and sports ABC construction along with twin ball bearings. Rigged for its own tuned pipe, it was meant to be an all out competition engine.
On the right is the VA .049 MK1, the first new .049 to come out in a very long time. It came out over ten years ago and was my first true success in getting a 1/2A to throttle properly.
The CS is one of the heavier .049s to come out while the VA is certainly the very lightest. While the CS carries a throttle made by them, throttling isn't that good probably due to the radical timing required to run on a pipe.
02-23-2004, 10:48 PM
#2
RE: Tale of two half-As
HI ANDY! That's a nice looking prop on the CS[:-]! I haven't heard very much about that engine. Back when they first came out I was very leery of anything CHINESE made, [except for those little pork ribs with the hot mustard! ] Now it seems like I'll probably have to move to CHINA, so I can get a job at an ARF factory. What planes have you had those engines in?
02-23-2004, 11:26 PM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Combatpigg,
The prop on the CS came from Larry Driskill and is made of glass and resin. I THINK it's a 5 X 2. You're right to have been leery about anything made in China. At least back then. This engine was practically given to me by,, I think ,, Matchlessaero. Forgive me if I'm wrong Jeremy and sorry I've forgotten who donated it (was it you?) but it was some five years ago during SMALLnet's heyday. In any event, it was basically TRASH as is. The head was on crooked, (bad machining) the bearings were rough, and of the three glow plugs provided, only one actually glowed. I rebuilt the thing from the ground up. The crazy thing is that despite being set up for its own pipe, it did no better, even with the pipe than the VA with its muffler on the same prop. This despite its having some rather radical timing like huge exhaust lead,,, supposedly intended for a pipe. And yet, this same pipe, adapted to VAs and Norvels gave a 3K boost, all with engines with "stock" timing.
It's a shame because the rebuilt CS has beautiful compression with a satisfying snap over when the prop is flipped. The piston and rod are impeccable along with the chrome plated brass liner. In that area they got it exactly right. Now, if they made a sport RC engine to those standards, then they'd have something.
The CS has never seen an airplane for the above reasons. The VA has been in my Stik and profile Sukhoi. It did best in the Sukhoi which had more area and weighed only 12 ounces.
The prop on the CS came from Larry Driskill and is made of glass and resin. I THINK it's a 5 X 2. You're right to have been leery about anything made in China. At least back then. This engine was practically given to me by,, I think ,, Matchlessaero. Forgive me if I'm wrong Jeremy and sorry I've forgotten who donated it (was it you?) but it was some five years ago during SMALLnet's heyday. In any event, it was basically TRASH as is. The head was on crooked, (bad machining) the bearings were rough, and of the three glow plugs provided, only one actually glowed. I rebuilt the thing from the ground up. The crazy thing is that despite being set up for its own pipe, it did no better, even with the pipe than the VA with its muffler on the same prop. This despite its having some rather radical timing like huge exhaust lead,,, supposedly intended for a pipe. And yet, this same pipe, adapted to VAs and Norvels gave a 3K boost, all with engines with "stock" timing.
It's a shame because the rebuilt CS has beautiful compression with a satisfying snap over when the prop is flipped. The piston and rod are impeccable along with the chrome plated brass liner. In that area they got it exactly right. Now, if they made a sport RC engine to those standards, then they'd have something.
The CS has never seen an airplane for the above reasons. The VA has been in my Stik and profile Sukhoi. It did best in the Sukhoi which had more area and weighed only 12 ounces.
02-24-2004, 08:15 PM
#4
RE: Tale of two half-As
HI ANDY! Thanks for giving me some background info on the CS. Now I understand why they are so,[AHEM] rare[:'(]. I think they have been given some mention in the CL SPEED columns. With a real high exhaust port they wouldn't have much application anywhere else. From what I've seen of your work, I'll bet you could lower the exhaust port. How do you prep the metal for this kind of work {JB WELDing passage ways ]?
02-24-2004, 08:35 PM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Actually Andy, if I remember right, I think it was Dave Campbell who sent you that little CS. I have never had one before, but wish I did- A pipe-timed CS on the front of a reinforced Caliente would certainly push past the current speed I have hit.
Interesting little setups you have. I am terribly interested in the throttled VA.....One of these days, I will get my hands on one.
Interesting little setups you have. I am terribly interested in the throttled VA.....One of these days, I will get my hands on one.
02-24-2004, 08:35 PM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Hey Combatpigg, Good Evening from the Texas South Plains where today we are having some weather more usually seen in the Great NorthWest,
The prop on Andy's CS is a KT11, 5&1/4 X 2.5 glass prop. In C/L Combat I usually run those cut to 4&1/2". The KT12 is a 5 X 2.75 and, I think, works better for Combat.
Andy will know better than I, but I think a little more prop weight might be better than the light glass prop when you are trying to throttle down to a low idle and then transition back to full power.
Sincerely,
Larry Driskill
The prop on Andy's CS is a KT11, 5&1/4 X 2.5 glass prop. In C/L Combat I usually run those cut to 4&1/2". The KT12 is a 5 X 2.75 and, I think, works better for Combat.
Andy will know better than I, but I think a little more prop weight might be better than the light glass prop when you are trying to throttle down to a low idle and then transition back to full power.
Sincerely,
Larry Driskill
02-24-2004, 09:27 PM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Combatpigg,
Actually, there's not much you can do about the exhaust lead on a brass liner even with the magical properties of JB Weld. [
] If you saw it, you'd think,,, what the heck?? Seems WAY overdone even for the purpose it was intended.
Matchless,
Yes, now that sounds familiar. Thanks. Whatever happened to Dave? Is he on this forum? His handle? Regarding a throttled VA,, well, you CAN have one, the MK2 as available from Larry, right now.
Larry,
Thanks for the info on the props. Damn memory, like gravity, it sucks.
On prop sizes, that's only an issue if you grossly overprop, in which case, slow rpms means low air velocity through the venturi which leads to backing out the main needle which leads to a rich mixture at idle that goes beyond the range of the adjustable airbleed. Within reason, say on an .049, anything 6 X 3 and down works fine. The Norvel .061s will tolerate a 7 X 3 because of more cubes it appears. My VA MK1s idle at 5K on 5.5 X 2 APCs and transition is still excellent. A larger prop, in larger engines, can help idle but this only indicates a deficiency somewhere in the design of the engine/throttle combination. Again, memory doesn't serve me well but I don't recall any problems running the glass props. They did spin faster due to smaller blade area and they might have had a slight advantage over the APCs,,, at least at the rpms I was running them (22-23K). Both props allowed the VA to throttle just fine.
I made up a barrel type exhaust throttle for the piped CS with some ideas I tried such as pressure to the tank that varies according to throttle setting. It kind of worked but it was a plumbing nightmare. This was also tried on some rear exhaust Norvels with some success.
Actually, there's not much you can do about the exhaust lead on a brass liner even with the magical properties of JB Weld. [
] If you saw it, you'd think,,, what the heck?? Seems WAY overdone even for the purpose it was intended. Matchless,
Yes, now that sounds familiar. Thanks. Whatever happened to Dave? Is he on this forum? His handle? Regarding a throttled VA,, well, you CAN have one, the MK2 as available from Larry, right now.
Larry,
Thanks for the info on the props. Damn memory, like gravity, it sucks.
On prop sizes, that's only an issue if you grossly overprop, in which case, slow rpms means low air velocity through the venturi which leads to backing out the main needle which leads to a rich mixture at idle that goes beyond the range of the adjustable airbleed. Within reason, say on an .049, anything 6 X 3 and down works fine. The Norvel .061s will tolerate a 7 X 3 because of more cubes it appears. My VA MK1s idle at 5K on 5.5 X 2 APCs and transition is still excellent. A larger prop, in larger engines, can help idle but this only indicates a deficiency somewhere in the design of the engine/throttle combination. Again, memory doesn't serve me well but I don't recall any problems running the glass props. They did spin faster due to smaller blade area and they might have had a slight advantage over the APCs,,, at least at the rpms I was running them (22-23K). Both props allowed the VA to throttle just fine.
I made up a barrel type exhaust throttle for the piped CS with some ideas I tried such as pressure to the tank that varies according to throttle setting. It kind of worked but it was a plumbing nightmare. This was also tried on some rear exhaust Norvels with some success.
02-24-2004, 09:28 PM
#8
RE: Tale of two half-As
HI LARRY! Are you trying to say that you're getting a little wet, or having a "gully washer"? According to the local CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, it only rains 80 days a year here. Their definition of rain is based on certain criteria that I'm not aware of. If you totaled up all the days it looked like it COULD rain, with all the other days when some one got wet, it leaves you with 2 days per year of perfect weather. Good point about the flywheel action at idle, but the light prop should contribute to a good acceleration if it"s on a good motor. Thanks for the info on the glass props, I've only known them by color up to now!BTW, HI ANDY!
02-26-2004, 07:41 AM
#9
RE: Tale of two half-As
Wow.. Andy I have looked at those C.S motors with longing for a while. I think the exhaust port is really a bit over the top, but I have read some pretty good things about them from speed guys- Have you tried it with a single blade prop? With that exhaust duration my bones tell me that for a tiny stroke and cylinder volume like that, its going to want to be doing some stellar RPMs to really go- like 35000+
I can only say, Its Made in China so STAND WELL BACK
J.M
P.S I`d really like to get my hands on something with bearings to make a screamer someday. maybe I`ll save up for a Cylon!
I can only say, Its Made in China so STAND WELL BACK
J.M
P.S I`d really like to get my hands on something with bearings to make a screamer someday. maybe I`ll save up for a Cylon!
02-26-2004, 08:28 AM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Hi Guy's
The CS engine came in two flavors, normal and pipe timed versions. The old sand cast motor was kinda like a kit, You got all of the stuff to MAKE a motor. The speed guys do some incredible things with the CS and it's remade version I forgot what it's called (ZDZ?). Doug Galbraith wrote an article that is on the CS web site about the required things that have to be done to make a good motor out of the CS. This is an excellent article for anyone who likes to work on this stuff and is interested in performance. I'l see if I can get the link if anyone is interested.
The real sleeper in the 1/2a world is the VA MKII. Weighs about half what the Cyclon and CS weigh, (1.6 oz) will run half a dozen heats at >32 K and keep on ticking. When you get the really big numbers from a Cyclon or a CS I think that the reliability would be in question for a six heat day. Speed guy's only need one or two good runs all day.... Rgds, Jeff
The CS engine came in two flavors, normal and pipe timed versions. The old sand cast motor was kinda like a kit, You got all of the stuff to MAKE a motor. The speed guys do some incredible things with the CS and it's remade version I forgot what it's called (ZDZ?). Doug Galbraith wrote an article that is on the CS web site about the required things that have to be done to make a good motor out of the CS. This is an excellent article for anyone who likes to work on this stuff and is interested in performance. I'l see if I can get the link if anyone is interested.
The real sleeper in the 1/2a world is the VA MKII. Weighs about half what the Cyclon and CS weigh, (1.6 oz) will run half a dozen heats at >32 K and keep on ticking. When you get the really big numbers from a Cyclon or a CS I think that the reliability would be in question for a six heat day. Speed guy's only need one or two good runs all day.... Rgds, Jeff
02-26-2004, 09:28 AM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
Jeff,
Yeah, you're right, the thing was like an assembled kit. They should have just sold you all the parts. I have the article from Doug and it helped a lot.
I'm beginning to think that I overproped the CS, somehow. Maybe I'll take an APC 5.5 X 2 and cut it down to 4" and see what happens, on the CS AND one of my VAs,, just for fun. [X(]
Yeah, you're right, the thing was like an assembled kit. They should have just sold you all the parts. I have the article from Doug and it helped a lot.
I'm beginning to think that I overproped the CS, somehow. Maybe I'll take an APC 5.5 X 2 and cut it down to 4" and see what happens, on the CS AND one of my VAs,, just for fun. [X(]
02-26-2004, 12:29 PM
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RE: Tale of two half-As
All the CS's that I have seen have been run FULL THROTTLE (of course none of them had a throttle) and ran super strong and FAST!!!!! I had a Norvel that would push 28K on the ground, and those CS's bad boys still scared the Ba-Hooy out of me!!!
Sure would be cool to see one pulling the newest Caliente at S.M.A.L.L. this year!!! I'm thinking 130mph would be fair. Come on MATCHLESS, get off your wallet and get you one (or two).
Sure would be cool to see one pulling the newest Caliente at S.M.A.L.L. this year!!! I'm thinking 130mph would be fair. Come on MATCHLESS, get off your wallet and get you one (or two).
