Nate-RCU

On some of those "ken willard" plans they were detailed nicely but I don't know what they were for........help



Regards,

Nate

BMatthews

It is a very old method for moving the rudder. Long ago in a galaxy far, far away before there was any such thing as digital proportional 1/2A modellers were constrained to flying rudder only using primitive devices. These devices were basically a simple relay that functioned as a trigger to allow a wound up rubber motor to work through a crank mechanism to operate the rudder. The speed of the traverse was limited by a simple gear wheel and clockwork rocking pawl style of escapement to allow the thumb of the simple but enthusiastic pilot to keep up with the speed of the rubber motor unwinding. T operate this simple escapement (see where the name comes from now?) the erstwhile pilot had a simple TX that only transmitted a single tone that was controlled by a single button. Pushing once would let the escapement move to, for sake of argument, full right rudder. Releasing the button would allow the escapement to cycle through the left turn position and on to the neutral point (even older ones had a neutral between the right and left and you needed to remember what way it turned last time). To get left rudder you blipped for a right turn and then released and blipped quickly to catch the escapement before it passed the left rudder locking position. You then held it there as long as you needed. To get a more open turn you could select a turn and then release mulitple times to sort of step around a turn.

This is why most of the older model designs meant for escapement use had very small rudders by modern standards. And of course since the rubber band was the motor that moved the rudder it was very important to rewind it before each flight if you turned a lot.

Sort of gives you a better respect for the old guys that actually had FUN flying that way doesn't it....

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

In many ways the sense of accomplishment would have been 20 times greater back then. There is a huge difference between instant gratification type fun, and the fun that the pioneers must have had. Even if I had all the money in the world to spend on ARF turbine jets, I know I would get more out of being a builder and an experimenter. I have been toying with the idea of making a dual polarity solenoid to actuate a torque rod for rudder only flight. I know this was done with commercially available stuff back in the day, but I want to take a crack at it.

XJet

I still have an OS Pixie single-channel super-regen RC set with a selective rudder escapement and sequential throttle one.

One push for right, two for left, three to cycle the throttle.

I even have the box and instructions that came with this gear.

Ah, those were the days.

About twenty years ago I built another single-channel plane (with an Cox 049 on it) and flew it quite a bit.

It was a real nostalgia trip and some *newer* RC modellers were astonished that such a primitive control system could enable one to do loops, rolls etc -- and then bring the plane in for a landing at your feet.

Nate-RCU

Fascinating...........

I looked at the plans and although I seen how it was connected to the rudder it wasn't clear how it would operate.Flying rc back then was certainly more interesting than it is now in so far as control but you must admit things have changed for the better.

I would like to see a set up for this if anyone has something to take a picture of.It would be nice to replicate the same control and actually fly it. For me that was along time ago and in the early 60's I was only a few years old when some of you were flying these little beauties.

I'm sure that others here such as myself would be very interested in seeing how it was done.

It does give me a better appreciation, especially for the older gentlemen in the club that are to use the cliche,"stuck in their ways".It is easy to see why now and how it wasn't always possible to just go out and buy something at your LHS. If you needed it you may have had to make it.Certainly not the case today.


It would also be interesting to see a time line on how rc has progressed to this point with turbines, digital control and arf technology..........

Regards,


Nate

Andrew

Hello Nate --

I looked thru some of the older stuff I have last night and found a rubber powered escapement, a "newer" magnetic pulse actuator, a Rand Galloping Ghost actuator, a couple of receivers, my Galloping Ghost TX and a Heath Kit setup. If I get a chance either this weekend or at the beginning of next week, I'll get some pictures and simple explanations together and put up on a web site. Also found some instructions on how to wind tuning coils -- we used to tune receivers with a plastic wand by screwing a ferrite slug up and down thru the coil tube, then would secure the slug with candle wax. Without a meter, we would tune for maximum range on the ground -- not very efficient.

I regret that I no longer have my Citizenship tube type transmitter -- that likely would have be of interest too.

Although thankful to have had the chance to have been the hobby for some time, I don't yearn for the "good ole days" when you had to spend more time tinkering with linkages and electronics than trying to fly.

the "other" Andrew

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Yep, escapement can be a bit challenging. My Lighting Bug Has a Mule single channel with the Citizenship escapement. Has around 35 flights on it to date. Got a few scratches and cracks where my finger was not quite quick enough. Also I found out from mt Dad I was using too big of rubber. Now that I have changed it out it works quite reliable.

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

hotdogx

Bob,

Man, I love that Mule TX! It looks to be in great shape. Always thought the turned finish on the Controlaire sets was the neatest looking finish by far! It's really neat that you are still using it! Best I recall, there was never a narrowband TX requirement on 27 MHZ, so all the old radios on 27 will still be legal.

Your trim scheme on the Lightning Bug is really nostalgic, takes me back to my youth.

newtech

Just in case you might like to see a Babcock Mk11 escapement, here is a picture of one I recently bought on 'e'bay. I had been watching for one for a couple of years. Used to fly a Li'l Esquire with one back in 1958.

hotdogx

Ah, a compound escapement, no less! I never flew with escapements. By the time I could afford my first radio control gear at age 19 in 1971, I ended up with an Adams actuator and pulse proportional. I remember the escapements well, however, as I watched the local fliers use them in Royal Rudder Bugs, Debolt Live Wires, and Debolt Champs. I remember what happened when the rubber bands broke or they ran out of winds on the rubber bands - the planes headed off into the Iowa corn fields! It was a real challenge finding a model in the tall corn! One of the fellows, a good friend of my Dad and me, had a full scale Taylorcraft and he'd search for the models from the air. I ended up owning a Taylorcraft myself years later, but that's another story...

Nate-RCU

I got to learn more about this. Pictures would be great.

How much were they worth and what was the one from ebay worth (ballpark).Are they collectors items or can they still be found???

I'm on a mission to find one.........

It 's odd what motivates us eh..............

regards

Nate

BMatthews

Bob, I almost had that same transmitter for my first radio. I was cruising the hobby shops (with my dad doing the driving chores as I was a young teen) and could not decide between the Mule, SH112 RX and a single channel MOTORIZED servo and the Sterling Command master. In the end the lure of proportional won out. But that heavy BRICK was the death of my RC experiences and I can't help but wonder if the Mule and servo would not have been a better option.

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Here is a picture of an escapement mounted in a Little Roughneck I picked up a while back to use for a future repro kit . It has a superegen receiver and the rubber is not run. Set up correctly they were fairly reliable but you are correct when they quit. I can remember chasing after my Dad's on 2 occasions when it quit working!!

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

Nate-RCU

Great picture Bob. The open electronics?......WOW

Regards,

Nate

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Bruce,

I got a real kick out of your description of flying escapments. So many memories...yes, I had the "old" style where it was one right, the next left...etc.... never will forget having to "blip thru" to get right or left twice in a row. The feeling of accomplishment was unbelieveable when I finally soloed!! When my Dad bought me an OS servo (one right, two left) I thought it was the best invention in the world!!! I've flown most of Bob's (Early R/C) kits with rudder only or rudder elevator and they are a HOOT to fly. Best of all are the questions at the field as in "HOW DO YOU DO THAT???" I just picked up a clone of my first setup with a nice Mule TX ... rX but it has a Royal servo.. but.. that's ok.. I'm going to put in in one of Bob's Jr. Falcons... should be a lot of fun. So many memories... Can't wait for the next Small FLY>>>>


Deadstik...[8D]

aka Dan Hines
Carolina Custom Aircraft

XJet

Worse than having the rubber run down was when the damned escapement would jam producing a "stick-on" that resulted in a spiral dive into the deck.

Every now and then you'd see a single-channel flyer furiously punching the transmitter button hoping to "unstick" a jammed escapement.

Stick-on's were most likely to happen if your engine cut prematurely and you'd wound a heap of extra turns onto the rubber in anticipation of a long flight. Without the engine vibration to help the escapement's spring after it had rotated to deflect the rudder, sometimes the torque from the rubber was too great to disengage the latch -- so the rudder remained fully deflected.

hotdogx

I remember reading about the various failure modes of escapements back when I got my first radio in 1971. In part, that's what made me decide to go with pulse proportional and magnetic actuators. The other part, of course, was that I wouldn't have to learn to sequence the rudder commands. But, I have to say, the escapements were a pretty neat invention in their day. Getting a good flight in then was a big reward! And I still remember seeing my first RC plane in 1960 when I was 8 years old, a Babcock Breezy with a compound escapement - I thought that was the coolest thing I ever saw, having flown only ukies then. I was able to become friends with that fellow, even though he was 17 years older than me, and I learned a lot hanging out in his big model shop. His name is Chuck Jones, and he is still a good friend of mine today and still flies RC. He runs a hobby shop in Spencer, Iowa, the town I grew up near. What a great bunch modelers are!

LouW

I flew R/C with rubber band powered escapements. When the Babcock compound came out we thought it can't get any better than this. I got one and put it in an original design 1/2A model with an Aerotrol gas tube receiver. Check out the thread "for you rudder only pilots" for some pictures of several of my early birds.

You're right about making your own stuff. About all the hobby shops stocked was engines and materials like balsa, cement, dope, wire, wheels, etc. and a few kits. Everything else we had to make. Even today I find myself making stuff I could go buy, but many times it just seems easier.

buzzard bait

Al, I grew up in Ames Iowa about the same time. I flew controline and freeflight towline gliders--believe me, I know what you mean about those corn fields! Then, in 1965, I bought a single channel system with an S/N escapement. I put it on a TF Schoolboy, powered with a Pee Wee. It flew well, but the receiver died after the first flight. After that I was saving money for college and didn't get back to RC till almost 20 years later. Jim

hotdogx

Jim,

Wow! Ames, IA, eh? I went to college at Iowa State University and graduated in 1974 with a degree in Aerospace Engineering. Funny, you ended up in NY and I ended up in AL!

Man, that was tough having the RX die after your first RC flight! I had a similar experience with my first RC plane, a Midwest Whiz Kid on R/O. I turned too tight at the end of the first flight wanting to get the plane to land near me. The resulting spiral/crash landing broke the wing, which I repaired, but the RX no longer worked. Fortunately, Chuck Jones, the fellow I mentioned in an earlier post, was a radio-TV man and he checked it over and found a bad solder joint on the crystal. Resoldered it and I was back in business. That was good because I'd spent all the money I saved on that radio and plane, about $100. That was a lot of money in 1971 for just a single channel radio and I was just a kid!

vauxhall

I also had one of the OS Pixie outfits like yours.I remember before it went into the plane,tuning the receiver in to the transmitter,with the help of an earpiece from a AM radio. One tuned the slug in the receiver until you could hear the whistle of the carrier wave in your ear.Thank goodness for modern propo gear.Although back in those days I guess it was "state of the art"equipment!

Nate-RCU

Well Al when you were graduating from university in '74 I was only 10 years old. I didn't have any rc to speak of but what I did have was a genuine desire to make things.."go"..you know... fly. The one thing that is still embedded in my mind was the time I took my older brothers model of what I thought was a p51 that, for up to then, remained on his shelf above the bed. He really loved that thing and would never let me touch it. I knew that it would fly but I had to make the airlerons on the wings move and the rudder able to turn? I knew that this was serious business because there was no going back and no amount of lieing would see me out of this. To make a long story short, I took that hacked up model with the ailerons taped on and tied a piece of my fathers tarred marlin (string stuff) to the nose. It broke the prop and kept sliding off so with the steak knife and scissors I used on the wings I made a hole and jammed a knotted end in. I swung that around and got so excited that when I let it go .............too late.............it flew right behind me into the cloth canopy of the combine. It made a small tear and my old man was not happy. I paid the price but ...........that plane flew almost 30 feet before it hit and I thought that if I could only control it and turn it my fate would have been less severe.

I got a cox control line for my next birthday and could only use it with Dad. We have been into rc on and off ever since.

The story has nothing to do with the topic but reading your posts about the early 70's made me think of it again

Regards

Nate

hotdogx

Nate,

Funny stuff! Yes, I am familiar with the burning desire to make things fly as a kid. My Dad built a little plastic model of the Spirit of St. Louis and hung it from the light on the ceiling of my bedroom. He left strict instructions not to fool with it. I used to lay in the top bunk and look at that thing slowly turning around on the thread - it was like candy in front of a kid. I really wanted to get my hands on it and see if I could make it fly. One day I couldn't stand it any longer and got it down and had a good time playing with it. Did a little damage to it, don't remember what, but got into trouble with Dad. Not long after that I got a plastic kit of a Cessna 182 on floats which I built and used to have a ball with by holding it out the car window whilst going 70 mph and the little prop would really sing! When I turned 7 I soloed on a Ringmaster controline plane and that was the end of plastic models for me for the most part. I even rigged up a blanket as a parachute to jump off the roof of our house when I was 6 years old, but that's another story...

Nate-RCU

Hey Al,

It was great to be a kid eh. About the parachutes............I'm sure everyone here has at least one parachute story.They were the greatest toys. Maybe someday I'll grow up.....

Regards,

Nate

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

I reached the pinicle of S/C escapement flying when in the service in the 60's and had cascaded escapements, and a Hinode R/C outfit 26.995KC. The sequence was 1 -right 2-left 3 up 4-down and quick blip was motor control which was 3 position escapement. Used dry cell batteries , no nicads there and we soldered every pack as we needed them.
The old days are great to talk about but I'd never go back. I was so happy when I got MK moterized servos for my S/C stuff, these were sold by the old Royal corporation in the 60's here in the states.
Dennis