gcb

Thought you might like to see some old engines.
On the left is a K&B Infant .020 with the supplied aluminum prop (don't fly with it).
On the right is an OK CO2 engine, displacement unknown.

George

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

George:

My Jim Walker "Firebaby" came with a metal prop, I never flew it with anything else. It was stamped from soft aluminum, hit the ground, bend it back and fly again.

I learned more about prop pitch and its effects with that prop than I have since. It was a practical and immediate lesson. More pitch! It'll go faster! Wrong. It was a good teacher,

Personally, I think the AMA ban on metal props is ill founded. The APC props are worse than metal ones would be.

Bill.

Dan Vincent

George,

Would you believe there was a replica made of the K&B .020 Infant?

Bob Langelius from White Plains, NY had a limited number of them made which he sold under the P.A.L. name. The Infant had a unique button type glo plug so Bob had new plugs made for his engines. I made 25 boxes for him so I managed to get one of the Infant replicas.

These Infant Replicas are so exact you can swap parts with the original Infant.

Bob used one of his Infants on his Dakota FF which was designed for an OK Cub .049.

Tom @ Buzzard Bluff

I bought one of his Infant replicas from Bob when he was selling off the last of them. Some were so tight they needed a lot of persuasion for break-in. Naturally that's the one I bought.
Bobs' Dakota was built very lightly indeed. IIRC he won the Joe Wagner/Dakota event at Muncie the year they honored the design, @ 2001? Tom

gcb

I wonder if Bob still has spare plugs? When I started to get one of the K&B .020 replicas I saw in a mag that he had sold them all. ...Oh well.

That is a NICE Dakota. Joe Wagner sells a plan set for it. He has some recommended changes if using modern power or electric. There is also a kit available now.

Dan, those boxes really display an engine well. NICE.

George

jessiej

[Joe Wagner sells a plan set for it. He has some recommended changes if using modern power or electric. There is also a kit available now.]

What are the recommended changes?

jess

Dan Vincent

George & Jesse,

Yes, I have the Dakota plan from Joe Wagner.

I may opt for the kit.

I was wondering if that might make a nice little RC project.

Since the original was designed as a FF for the OK Cub .049 a smaller diesel should have plenty of power for the model plus radio equipment. Maybe a PAW .55cc or .049 with RC carb and muffler for removing exhaust oil residue.

The boxes make it easy to stack and display without worry of dust or handling.
Here is a group shot I did with 35mm film and then scanned in so the quality is not as good as I could get from my Digital Nikon.

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

I always thought that .020 class engines were technically considered 1/4A (about half of 1/2A) and that only .010 class engines were truely 1/8 A.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Tom:

The only official designator was 1/2A, the 1/4 and 1/8 are just conveniences.

Official:
0.0 to 0.05 - 1/2A
0.05+ to 0.15625 (2.5cc) - A
2.5cc+ to 0.299 - B
0.30+ - C.

Back in ancient days C went to 0.50, and another class, D, then went from there up to 0.65. Classes C and D were combined when the 1/2A was added. Also, before the invasion of the FAI the class A went to 0.20 before the break to class B size.

The only place you find engine sizes worried about these days is in racing and free flight contests. And to a lesser extent in this forum. Generally, it's accepted to allow up to a 15 here, once in a while some one sneaks in with a 25 engine.

Bill.

gcb

Jess,
Joe updated his plans in 1983 to include the Babe Bee and Pee Wee mounting. He cautions that the Babe Bee will usually make it nose heavy and you may need to add lead under the rear fuselage sheeting. He also mentions that you should time the run on a full tank, then refill and run out all but 30 seconds of the fuel before launching. The actual structure stays the same.
Joe includes an extra sheet with modifications for electric such as to alter the airfoil for a little more lift, mounting method for electric motor, and air vents in the cabin sides to remove heat.
I got my plans from him in 1999 so some info may have changed. He designed the original in 1949 and it's still popular for small fields.


Thomas B,
You are correct on the probable sizes. Perhaps someone will include pics of some TD .010's or a Bambi .009. I have not taken pics of my TD .010's yet and don't have a Bambi.

Jim Thomerson

Actually the size breaks between different classes of engines differ from event to event, as you will find if you cruse your AMA rulebook.

Jim

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

I am well familiar of the official breakouts on engine displacement for competion purposes and I know that the 1/4A and 1/8 A are, as you say, for conveniece....

When I was flying and competing in FF and C/L in the 1960's, .020 models were widely refered to as 1/4A. In this forum and these discussions, this term seems to have gotten lost, which is why I mentioned it.

gcb

OK, Now it's official. Here are some 1/8A pics:
First is an older model TD .010.
The second pic is a newer version with the black tank and no gold anodizing on the crankcase.
Third is a backplate for when you want to use an external tank.
Fourth are some accessories, black Cox prop, gray Cox prop, and various .010 wrenches.

George

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Well it's a diesel but it's small. It's a Valentine Blitz, it's .05ccm( not ci )!!! Now that's small.

Later,
Tim

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

WOW Dan! nice collection, although I gather it is but a small part of your collection, still to a motor head like myself its magnificent!!!...Rog

Dan Vincent

Rog,

Yes, I took that shot several years ago and it was mainly the "Little Guys" and small replicas.

Displaying all the engines at one time is a problem.

gcb

Tim,
WOW! That's .003 cu.in. Have you or can you run it, or is it just for show? Amazing.

Dan,
Those replicas by Arne Hende are beautiful pieces of work...no, art.

All of my engines are collected with the intentions of putting them in a plane. I usually break them in (with a few exceptions, such as duplicates) so they are ready to fly. Trouble is, I've done this enough to gather sufficient engines for several lifetimes of building (at my pace)...but still fewer than you have .09's. Actually, I've never counted them.

My latest plane is a CL Akromaster. It is modified in that I built the wings without cutting the extra off the LE and TE which extends the wings to something like 38 3/8". Power is a TT10 CL.

Only a bunch more to go!

George

Tim Wiltse-RCU

George,


No I don't have the engine, it is a picture I found on the web! It's bore and stroke are 4mm each.


Later,
Tim

gittarpikk

Hey, I got one of those CO2's new in the box.. and have some old engines as well... anyone ever seen a inline twin fury.. I think the cylinder bores were about .049 or may have been as large as .09Nope... they were .074s..and head was gold anyways , I have one of those , and a single cylinder version as well.. What about an old Diesel McCoy... got one of those too.

Dan Vincent

George,

Although those little engines do run, just finding a correct size propeller can be a problem.

When it comes to the effort required to build a model I prefer the .09 or .10 power because the engines are easy to handle and put out sufficient power to lift radio equipment. I don't have to go down to super-mini servos. If I use glo, most have regular glo plugs and not some special glo head that may not be available in ten years down the road.

When I got my little AH Baby Dooling .038 I started thinking about building a tiny speed job for it. Then I got to thinking, Why? I don't know anyone who builds speed models for sport flying and the novelty soon wears off.

Nope, when it comes to flying smaller models I'll stick to my .09 power because I know it will do the job and the planes aren't much bigger than the .049 stuff.

My dream machine at the moment would be a Lazy Bee on floats for my neighborhood retention pond. A nice light .09 diesel or maybe my OS .20 fourstroke.

gcb

Sounds like heaven to me.

George

mileshawk

Any one know if the Langelius 020 replicas and heads are still available? How to contact? Victor

mileshawk

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gcb

Last I heard, nothing was available. If he makes another run I'd like to get a glow plug or two for my original K&B Infant .020.

George

mileshawk

Thanks George. I also have an original and would like an extra head. I wonder what prop is being used on the Sniffer kit/020? I had several of those Sniffer's and lost all but the remains of one. I used a TD020 I believe. As I remember the original Torp. was pretty weak. Is the replica about the same? If the original still runs I might try another Sniffer with it. For years I flew indoors with the original Designer of the Sniffer, Roland Schmitt, for Midwest. Victor