Lynn S

My Extra had really become a marginal flyer since I repaired the wing. It just didn't perform like it did before. I guess the extra weight gained made the difference. I had to go to a full size battery to make it balance. It flew but was more or less a slug. If the .049 had a good needle setting it would do fair.
I was just about ready to remove the radio and engine, when I thought about my new .061 AME C/L engine. What would happen if I put that on it??
Would the wings fly off? Would it fall apart in the air? Would it just fly out of sight??
Well... I put the AME on the engine test stand and did the reg. Norvel break in...heat...spin with starter....then run it for 30 minutes...... that was easy enough. It was just as easy to run as the .049. I used a 6x3 Master Air Screw prop to load the engine pretty good for the break-in.
About 11pm last night I decided to give the Extra one more chance and try the AME on it. I had the engine swaped out in about 30 mins.
Today was the big day to see what it would do....there was a little wind blowing from the southwest and not a good direction for me to launch, but after a morning test run...I was ready.
Still using the 6x3 prop it didn't turn up a lot of rpm but a lot better than the .049 would spin it. The engine died early on the first launch, I gave it a richer setting and the second launch and flight went ok. No the wings didn't fly off, it climbed out quick and the wind didn't seem to have any effect on it. I gave it two more flights with the 6x3, then decided to go for broke and use the cox 5x3 rubber ducky. I waited for calm air around 7pm.
The 5x3 cox made it come alive, you can tell as soon as it fires up!
The plane is ready to leap into the air with any launch I gave it! It climbs out right away...not like the .049 which needed a few seconds to gain speed.
How did it fly? Well its not for the faint of heart, fast but not hard to fly either.
It ran strong with just exhaust pressure provided by the muffler to the tank. The warnings I had read about how hard it is to use were unfounded. Its just as easy to use as the .049.
It really moves, the Extra seems to be happy even in high speed dives!
This will keep this plane flying for a while....
For those who want to add some spice to your Simple Series, this will wake your plane up if you are willing to go fast. The price is right too. Norvel still has them at closout for $32. Its well worth that and not hard to use at all.

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

Lotsa folks must have the same experience with the .061 vs .049- perhaps that's why there seem to be almost no .049 for sale on the norvel site anymore...

Lynn S

Thats true, I don't think they are selling anymore .049s

The .049 does fine as long as you can keep the plane light. I would say not over 18 oz. My Extra was 20oz when I built it so that is the maximum. It went over 20 oz when I repaired it. So it went from a good flyer to a slug overnight. The next Simple Series I build will not have the fuse doublers and I will try to keep it under 18oz. I would say the .049 is equal to a TD in power and the muffler pressure gives a constant engine run. So its still pretty amazing how well a .049 can fly these SS planes if they are built light.

Andrew

Aside from some contest restrictions eliminating the .061, I would think most modelers would opt for the .061 given the fact there is no weight penalty. Although the displacements of both engines are small, the .061 is almost 25% larger and the performance improvement is evident.

With NORVEL's movement into the larger displacement market and guessing that an AX-25 will be showing up soon, I would expect that the NORVEL .049 may be nearing the end of its production life as manufacturing resources get reallocated.

the "other" Andrew

Lynn S

I bought three of the .049s and gave one to my neighbor. The two I have will probably outlast me. I would say the advantages of the .049 was super fuel economy and power just below a .061. I think they have about the same power as my AP .061 I know it will spin a 6x3 MAS prop the same rpm. You can run these C/L engines without a throttle and not overpower a small plane. Its just getting them going is kinda slow.
The .049 will find a new home on my Hummer.

gcb

I think I remember reading/comparing that the .061 has more power per cubic inch also.

Also, older AMEs suffered with fuel draw problems if you overload them with a large prop. They need to rev-up. Perhaps that's still true.

George

Dan Vincent

Smaller models are neat because they fit easily into todays' compact cars and you don't need a large flying field to enjoy them.

I have recently grown to appreciate the 1.0cc or .061ci engine size. For me there is always the practical side to flying models. The .061 is roughly the same size as the .049 but with more power. Since I'm not planning to enter any competitions with a cut-off of .049 I can put whatever I want in the nose of sport planes.

Sure you can make that fly-weight R/C model and power it with an .020 but it will never respond the way a slightly larger model will. From now on my cut-off point for smaller models is going to be .061 or .09 because they can easily handle the weight of four of the lightweight servos available now.

When you add floats to an .049 model an upgrade to an .061 should be a standard move.

I only have so much space to store R/C models so I want to get the most practical use of that space.

Lynn S

I think we have about as many different interest in planes and engines as we do members on the forum. I have great respect for the guys who can make .010 planes fly like they have much larger engines. I was quick to sell my TD.010 to Matchlessaero. I just couldn't build a 5 oz plane. I found the .049 size to be my minimum flyer.
I guess my neighbor and I like to say "I can't believe these things are flying with an .049"...... considering this is the size engine that powered our little string C/L planes over 40 yrs ago. So the challenge with a .049 is to get it light enough where it can perform well. (much like using a TD-.010 but not that hard to do) I have yet to put a Norvel .049 C/L on my LS150. This should make a great combination. The BW is vibrating badly so I should go ahead and try the Norvel on it.
The Simple Series planes were built for TD .049 power with no throttle. So there is a place for non throttled .049s on these planes as well. You just fly until you are out of fuel and land deadstick. The challenge here is to build it at 18ozs or less. I like the "simple" idea of two servos with these planes as well as the Sig Hummer.
Sure, why not just use a .061 with a throttle? Well then we start moving toward the complex side of the scale just a wee bit. Not much, just not as simple. So why use a .049 when you can have a .061 at the same weight? Well, I guess its just to say "I can't believe these things are flying with an .049"

Lynn S

I bought a GALLON of Byrons 15 %Nitro, 20% oil half and half syn/castor and tried it out today. The AME is running better than ever.This is really a easy to run engine, just not a good idea not to have throttle with this much power. The extra speed may be causing sudden dips to the right. I'm not sure if this is a radio glitch or just built in the wing. This is not constant it seems to dip the wing to the right every few seconds. I can hold left aileron to over ride. Trim does not stop the problem. All surfaces are nice and snug. I don't notice any chatter in the servo. I noticed when the engine is dead the problem stops and the glide down is perfect.
It is awesome to watch the power it has with the AME, but not fun to see this wing drop to the right going at full tilt and no throttle...so I've got the .049 back on to see if this was speed induced. If I still have the problem it may be in the rx caused by the crash.

DICKEYBIRD

You might have a servo pot going whacko at a certain rpm/vibration. I've had this problem many times back in the days of the early Futaba mini-servos and 1/2A engines. Try swapping the servo with another plane's throttle servo & see if the funny stuff goes away.

Weird problems usually don't fix themselves; they just get worse.

Andrew

Ain't that the truth -- and usually at the worst possible time! [&o]

Lynn S

DB, It sure acts like a servo problem.... its like the servo kicks in full right every now and then. I guess it must be engine vibrations causing it to act up, but also it doesn't seem as stable as it did before the crash. I noticed the wing is tilted to the right just a little. I'm going to fly it at a slower speed with the .049 and see what happens. If it still has the problem then it must be the servo acting up. I think I will not use the AME until I can get a carb. so it will have throttle. It sure runs good. I haven't checked the rpm but the 5x3 cox is really pushing some air.

Andrew

Lynn --

I agree with DB -- it may be vibration induced problem, either in the servo or receiver. Like DB said, vibration can be more pronounced at certain RPM's -- when engine vibration matches the natural harmonics of either the control surfaces or other structure of the plane.

Fuel it up and run thru a full tank on the ground moving the sticks just like you were flying the plane -- use a starting stand or have someone hold it by the tail -- you want to induce as much vibration as possible. Watch the surfaces to see if you are getting any glitches or unexpected control movement. Since you will probably be close to the plane, you may want to keep your antenna down -- I have seen some servos chatter with signal saturation.

If you are getting glitches, you certainly want to find out before putting in a lot of flight time.

the "other" Andrew

Lynn S

Andrew, The ailerons are rock steady on the ground with the engine running. I have even pushed on them to simulate a wind load and they don't wiggle at all. I'm going to try it out with the much slower .049 and see what happens.

Lynn S

Well...I think I know what the problem is. I flew it with the .049 and it didn't have the wing dipping problem. I think it shows up under the high speed of the .061 AME. I think the problem is the way the wing is mounted. I noticed it is tilted to the right, the right wing is level and the left wing has all the dihedral angle in it (just a little) this makes the plane pull to the right. The faster it goes the worse it gets.
It is kinda windy today but I flew it anyway, it did fine once I got the speed built up. That new gallon 15% Byron's fuel really makes big difference, If it can fly in the wind its got to be running strong. I'm going to fix the wing and leave the .049 on it. The AME is too much engine not to have a throttle, the .049 when running strong provides enough power.
Looks like all I need to do is shim up the wing on the right side.

Lynn S

Update on the wing dipping problem....It was the servo acting up. Dickeybird and Andrew were right. I changed the aileron servo and that solved the problem. The problem seemed to be ok after going to the smaller engine, but was still noticeable.Then the old servo got to where it was twitching around a lot even without the engine running.
I put a full size futaba servo in place of the Hobbico CS12 I was using.
After two short flights to get the trim reset, it flying good again.
The .049 Norvel is not that bad since I have the plane back to stable flight.
Those giant loops with the AME kinda spoiled me though.

Edit: I ordered a r/c carb. for the .061 AME. Its $25 but worth being able to throttle this engine. The same carb. fits everything from a .049-.074 big migs and AMEs. I don't think a throttle carb is needed on the .049 but the .061 AME needs one for sure.

Lynn S

The R/C carb came in Fri. for the AME. Its the same carb on all the engines up to the .074. The r/c carb has a smaller opening than the C/L body so I guess that will cut back on rpms some and use less fuel. I installed a four channel Futaba rx and added a parkflyer servo to handle throttle operation.
This is getting away from the "Simple" idea but this plane needs a little more zip that the AME will give it and the C/L version has too much power not to have a throttle.
Total investment is now $57 in the engine or about $2 more than it would have cost if I had just ordered the r/c version.
I got the engine mounted last night and started it this morning to see how it ran with the new carb. It started easily and has no problem getting enough fuel. Setting the carb takes a little longer to find a good setting for both idle and high speed. It's a bit of a fast idle but I think that is the case for most high performance engines. It will go from idle to high speed without a lag or stumble. I'm using Byrons 15% nitro and 20% syn/castor mix and it seems to be getting plenty of lube and runs great.
I just had time to get in one long flight this afternoon, having the r/c carb and not running full throttle at all times makes a big difference in run time. It got over 15 minutes of flying on two ounces of fuel. It would only run 10 min at full throttle as a C/L.
Changing to a different radio Rx and Tx had an effect on trim, not much but enough for two aborted hand launces. The first and second launch let me know that it needed some left and up trim the third launch was a good one. Just being out of trim a small amount can have a big effect and the extra power I think can make things worse.
How does it fly? well I was able to throttle back and fly at half throttle easily. I didn't really try to see what is would do on the first flight, just wanted to make sure it would run at different speeds and not go dead.
I found that it is not a fussy engine at all and runs with plenty of power when called for. The .049 was a bit overloaded in this plane and its nice to have a plane with some brute power.