vauxhall

As ether is used to make diesels start easily when flicking the prop, in this day of electric starters, is ether still needed in diesel fuel. Although I haven't done any testing, I feel confident that a mixture of kero and castor oil, and an electric starter would fire up a diesel engine. Any comments from dieselaphiles? Peter Burford, any thoughts?

Jim Thomerson

An actual diesel expert remarked to me that we can almost, but not quite, do without ether in our model diesel engines. The problem is that you have to get the cylinder hot enough to fire the kerosene. That is going to take a really high compression ratio without either or some other low ignition point igniter.

Jim

gcb

On the other end of the scale, some very small diesels ran on ether and lube...no kerosene.

If you have to increase compression from your normal settings to run, it is often an indicator that your ether content is low. Can you run without ether...probably, but your engine may be short-lived due to parts stress.

I understand that in some competitive events, such as team racing, it is acceptable to expect the engine to be short-lived and ether and lube are decreased so the power ingredient, kerosene, is at optimum. Perhaps someone who races will chime in.

I'll keep my ether up, thanks.

George

peterburford

Vauxhall, with that invitation, I just had to reply!
I would think the other posts are correct. We must always use some ether. With lower proportions, the compression must be higher with correspondingly higher loads and wear. Many engines are not built to cope.
Anyway, surely some of the diesel charm is doing without all the ancillary "stuff."
Peter

vauxhall

Thanks for your reply Peter. Seems as though ether is still in the mixture. Why I asked the question is because my LHS doesn't always stock diesel fuel, and buying raw ether is pretty difficult these days. I must be the only diesel operator left in my neck of the woods. You're right about not having to worry about starters, batteries and spare glow plugs, plus, the aroma of diesel fuel is all I need to inspire my next model plane. Are there any Taipan 1.5 diesels left for sale in the Burford family stock? A MK2 with the squarish head would be highly suitable. I loaned mine to a mate in 1965. He must have liked it, because he never gave it back.

mr_leffe

Try some Tractor/ Deisel starter fluid. It is supposed to be 80% ether. Later Mate.

peterburford

Vauxhall,
Sorry, neither Gordon nor myself own a Taipan, let alone having one for sale.
Peter

vauxhall

No worries Pierre, I was being a bit frivolous, I'm more than happy with my couple of pommie P.A.W.'s. They take a lot of beating, and I can still get spares for them.

burtcs

I used spray can starting either. Locally the best deal is $1.19 (US) for an 11oz can. That will make just about 3 quarts of fuel.

HTH - Steve B.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

John Deere brand, spray ether, has a stated ether content of 80%. Works great for homebrew.

SERCEFLYER

If you can't find John Deere starter fluid, are there other alternatives that work well? I've seen Prestone at Wal-mart and Gunk "Thrust" at Home Depot. Do these work?

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

I've tried two other brands, one from "Canadian Tire" and another from a local service station and they both worked fine. Neither listed the ingredients so the issue is always, how much ether am I really getting. I use the JD stuff because I can be sure and because I can get it. If I had to, and because they do work, I'd use another source. Best is to just try with the bias towards more ether and see what happens.

When I first started to dabble with diesel, I made up the often recommended 1/3rd mix. I had trouble many times except when used in early type diesels with good compression. I had made up an .078 by stuffing the innards of a Hornet .09 into an MP jets .06 and made up a diesel head for it. Despite repeated tries, I couldn't get the *%$#@ thing started using the 1/3rd mix. I got pops and small farts, but thats it. An entire year went by until someone suggested that the small engines preferred more ether. So, going to an extreme of sorts, I made up a 50 ether, 30 kero and 20 oil mix with 2% MEKP. Amazingly, that impossible to start engine, fired off on the first flip. No doubt because the engine had thickened oil in it with optimum compression seal. Subsequent starts were less instant but the engine now runs beautifully. Since then, I've played with various mixes, like 30 ether, 50 kero and 20 oil. It appears that while more ether made a difference, too much oil was a large factor as well. LOTS of oil seems to be only strictly required in old tech, cast iron/steel, vintage type diesels.

I've tried as low as 10% ether and things got strange. VERY high compression was needed and while I have been using an electric starter for my "modern" diesels, this time, even that was not much help. Yes, as most have suggested, ether is a necessity. Lots is good, less not so good.