BMatthews

An 049 doesn't have a lot of thrust to deal with the friction of a launch rail system. It's far better to modify your launch technique. I'd suggest you try holding the model side armed with your launch hand over the leading edge just in front of one of the booms. Then do a side arm frisbee stle launch but without the flick of the wrist that would cause it to try to spin. Aim it up so it's going up at about 20 degrees. It'll wobble a couple or three times and then line itself up and it's away. And at the weight and wing area of this model it doesn't need to be a really aggresive "rip the wings off" style launch. Just do it with the same speed of the arm that would make a frisbee go about 25 to 30 feet and the engine will take over.

SquirlNutZipper

My Feedback: (9)

...or how about a crossbow? But seriously. I vote for the discus, spin em around till you're dizzy, style launch.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Right. That way the plane goes straight and you crash.

Haw.

Bill.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That rubber prop won't do much more than spank the back of your hand during follow through,[ if you have poor follow through]. If you hold it with a gloved hand, there would be no danger of harm. I hold my pusher plane up front and give it a good , straight throw and my hand is clear of the prop before the prop goes wizzing past. I would like to see stop action sequence photos of the hand launch, just to see how close it is. Go through the motions with the engine not running to see for yourself that the speed of your hand pulling away places it out of harms' way, and with a light weight glove on, there's no way that rubber prop will ever taste any skin.

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

Well i did some thinking and decided not to go through with the launch ramp. I now have to do repairs[sm=angry.gif], yep had my first 1/2 amp plane crash!!! I launched the plane holding right in front of the booms, it took off perfect and i headed skyward(20 degree angle), I got about 50 feet up and the engine died, ooh bbooooooooooopppppp(censered for my sake) I did a slight dive and was about 2 feet off the ground and i hit a t-post. It tore the whole nose right off, the electronics were scattared all over my yard! I have been up 3 hours extra gluing and epoxing the plane back together(i guess that's one way to lose weight, crash!!??!)Anyway it's starting to make a comeback, and i'm taking it to a professional friend tommorrow to have him help with repairs. Turns out i didn't turn the needle back 1/8 turn, to lean, and not enough oil. I'm going to call it phoneix 1, because it kinda looks like spaceship one. Anyway i hope you guys don't think a bad pilot, i just didn't expect a t-post to be in my yard (it was a support for a baby tree), i hope i'm not the only one here who's crashed like that.[&:] Thanks speedsport

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

SS, just think, you have a perfect model right there in your hands that could be used as a pattern for a balsa wood plane. A balsa wood plane could be built quite a bit lighter than the plastic version, I'll bet.

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

I like that idea, but how would i get a round fuseloge, would i get like a solid chunk of balsa and hollow it it, oh and by the way, thanks for not making fun of my stupid crash. I'll post after repair pictures to see if you guys can spot any damage!!! If i decide to build the balsa version could i still use the same motor(cox0.49[Black widow])?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

You could roll a couple of layers of wet 1/16" balsa around a round form, glued together with TITEBOND and allowed to dry. The nose cone could be done with my favorite method of pink foam and glass cloth that has been CA glued to the foam. The foam plug could be shaped on a drill motor if you glue a dowel into it. You might even find a commercial package, like one of those panty hose containers [LEGGS] and then base the diameter of your tube off of that, or a plastic EASTER egg half would make a nice nose cone. For that matter, maybe ESTES has nose cones ready to go?.

Big Al-RCU

Sorry that your plane was damaged but it may not have been entirely your fault. There is a little understood invisible and mysterious force that exists around all posts and trees. If you let a model get too close to this force, it will suck your plane directly into the obstacle. Everyone that has been flying for any length of time has experienced this phenomenon. The only cure is to stay well out of reach of this evil force.
al

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

Your right, hopefully! Well the plane is repaired fully, and i'll post pics tommorrow to see if you guys can tell of any signs of damage??? I got a new cox 0.49 black widow and i am having trouble starting it. I know i'm suppose to run 2 to 3 tanks rich, but i can only get it to pop and crackle and maybe spin 1/2 a turn on its own? Am i doing something wrong? I now have 2 engines and i am going to build a combat plane, idea's or plans are appreciated, thanks speedsport

Big Al-RCU

Speed, sounds like your BW is flooded. If the needle is opened too far, then after a prime thru the exhaust port, it will try to start but after a few revs it will go too fuel rich to run. Then after a lot of cranking it will clear itself out enough to fire again but then the whole process is repeated. A flooded engine is nasty and (along with a weak starting battery) has accounted for more engine starting profanity than any other thing that I can think of. Even closing the needle to the correct run position won’t be evident because of the fuel rich mixture still in the crankcase. Best to completely close the needle and keep cranking until it runs out the excess fuel and clears itself.
On the other hand if the needle is closed too far it will run out the prime at a high RPM for several seconds and then die when the fuel (prime) is burned off. But now the engine is cleared and the process can be repeated. Open the needle a bit, and repeat until it will keep running. It will probably be on the lean side so IMMEDIATELY open the needle some more to richen it up (it will peak and then slow down). You don’t want to let it run at an over lean condition for any length of time.
Note, that while this procedure works for me, I have never seen it recommended by anyone, much less an engine mfg. I suppose they are afraid that a newcomer will by chance run off a full tank at a screaming smoking lean setting on the first run and damage the engine. But of course we know better than to let that happen.
Al

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Isn't 3-4 turns out from fully closed the usual spot to get some sort of a run? To clear a flooded crankcase I tip the engine on it's side a flip the prop to allow the excess fuel to drain out quickly.

Big Al-RCU

Yes of course you are quite right. My rather lengthy explanation was intended to help someone with possibly less experience determine if a setting was rich or lean (and why) and a way to correct it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

AL, your explanation about how to get one running is excellent. I really WAS asking [about the needle turns]. One thing about running COXes, they will teach you lots about engine theory!

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Piggy:

Some have said that Cox engines teach you many new "Cuss" words too.

Haw.

Bill.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's a good one, BILL! I remember my DAD with me on the playground in 1964, XMAS DAY and the profane [he was a WWII P-47 pilot] words that he had for that COX engine!

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

Well i tried the technique big-al gave me and it was no help, i started with the needle valve at 21/2 turns out and primed it and flipped it over, it only burnt the prime and died, i kept doing this until it would only keep running and dieing. The most it would run for was 10 seconds, and i richened and leaned the mixture several times. I have no clue as to whats going on here. Can somebody help me? Thanks SpeedSport

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Make sure you are getting a good compression seal and that the glow plug isn't faulty. New plugs have been known to go bad quickly. With a prime, does the engine have a decent amount of POP when you flip the prop? Will it hold compression for a few seconds after you bring it up to TDC?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Chuck:

I think he more likely has a fuel problem. The needle port is clogged, or maybe the o-ring sealing the back plate.

Bill.

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

Yes it hold compession for about 2 seconds, and i suspect it is the glow starter(Double aa battery) or the glow head[>:], it has to be, i've tried everything, checked everything, and called everybody i know that flies with a cox motor. on the positive side i have created a set of not attached take off gear, i bent some wire, and put on some wheels and volia! instant take off wheels! Now i don't have to hand launch(i hope, test coming as soon as the engine works), as soon as you lift off it just keeps on rolling, and my plane just keeps flying.

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

Hold everything, i got the motor running. It was some kind of crack in the fuel pickup, i changed the tank with a plain jane backplate and made a fuel tank out of an equate eyedrop container. It runs like never before. I tested the fall off wheels and they do not work. THe plane just doesn't have enough ooommmppphhh to get it off the ground, also it tries to turn left and right, and i my controls are elevator and aileron. I see you guys haven't been posting here as much, i hope you will continue giving me tips and techniques that you professionals know. Also whats the difference betwwen the cox 0.49 blackwidow and a norvel 0.61?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

What's the difference between a NORVEL and a COX? There's a GREAT PUNCH LINE in there SOMEWHERE!?! BILL? BRUCE? Help me out here, I give give the floor to anybody who has a snappy line! The twitchy action of the wing is the wing panels trading being totally stalled. You are lucky it didn't take off. Should have listened to the earlier advice!!! If you could maintain the take off roll long enough, then it might work. In the meantime, the hand launch with a glove will get the job done. Launch it level, or slightly down. The plane will fly out 10 feet, and if it isn't too heavy after this repair work, take to the sky again. Glad you found the problem, a new engine shouldn't have this kind of trouble!!

SpeedSport

My Feedback: (1)

I guess i'm kinda glad it didn't take off either, i also guess theres a big difference in cox and norvel too. After the repair the plane now weighs 18 and a quarter ounces, not to bad. I did fly again today and she is beautiful, i only did circles and figure 8's, trying to get the hang of her if you know what i mean. I am having serious trouble landing this bird. When the motor runs out of gas it seems to have 1/2 of the movement as before, i guess thats normal though. When i land i search for tall grass and i want to bring her in on the front lawn. I would love tips on landing, and the difference in cox and norvel engines too. Thanks SpeedSport

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Cox and Norvel

Clement weather and Nasty storms.
Curvaceous bodies and Nurses with enema syringes.
Cream pie and Noodles, plain.

I suppose that's enough for now. Not going to say which is which, but if you notice the initial letters you might get an idea.

Haw.

Bill.

PS: I have to admit I have some of both. wr.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Sounds like your plane is nose heavy? If it tends to nose dive for the ground when you are dead stick, even with full up elevator, then that is the problem,[if I understand what you are saying]. If you go out to mid span on each wing panel, then go 25% of the wings' chord back at this point of the span, that is where the CG should be. Since you are having some success already flying it, I think it is safe to say that it is a touch nose heavy. How much deflection from neutral do you have on your control surfaces [at full throw]? I see a lot of planes that are nose heavy, set up with too much throw. It is much better to be balanced correctly and go with modest amounts of control surface throw.

Difference between COX and NORVEL, hmm. If I could get all the lost time back that I have spent trying to get COXES to run, and to stay running, I would be 48 instead of 50. My swear word vocabulary wouldn't be so well developed. I would have no gray hair. My first marriage might have worked out.....