Norvel Engine FAQ
07-05-2008, 07:37 PM
#301
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Where can I find a carb for a Big Mig .061 Revlite. I bought a brand new engine for $20.00 but it is a controlline/freeflight model. I really want throttle on my Herr Cessna 180, I'm building. Do any of you fellas have a dead .061 i might buy the carb from you.
Thanks Johnny
Thanks Johnny
07-07-2008, 12:05 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
ORIGINAL: BMatthews
This is a thread for discussing and providing links or writeups to all that is needed to understand and care for the Norvel engines. Specificallly the 049's, 061's and 074's. I welcome the old hands to provide links or place older quoted material here that you think will help out or write new matieral. For the folks asking questions this is the place if it's specifically engine related. If you don't find it here then it's about time someone asked.
I would like to see material related to....
[ul][*] Engine type identification. Pictures are needed.[*] Care and feeding. How to disassemble, clean, care for and reassemble the engines along with tricks.[*] Blueprinting or hopping up the engines. [*] Starting and running hints, propeller options, fuel choice, etc. In particular to breaking in which is so important for the Norvels.[*] A guide to what sort of model size and performance expectations the various sizes can be used with. From 6oz racers to 30oz powered gliders.[*] Anything else Norvel related that I missed.
[/ul]
As much as possible I encourage you guys to remember the fine stuff you wrote before and repost it either under your own name if you wrote it in the first place or as a quote attributed to the proper author. There's tons of fine stuff from the past that is often hard to find if you don't know the ideal search keywords to use. If and when you come across something then feel free to add it in and make this a great resource. I'd also welcome any new material and would ask that for some of the stuff that lots of pictures be taken to best illustrate the steps for those that have not worked much with the Cox products before.
This is a thread for discussing and providing links or writeups to all that is needed to understand and care for the Norvel engines. Specificallly the 049's, 061's and 074's. I welcome the old hands to provide links or place older quoted material here that you think will help out or write new matieral. For the folks asking questions this is the place if it's specifically engine related. If you don't find it here then it's about time someone asked.
I would like to see material related to....
[ul][*] Engine type identification. Pictures are needed.[*] Care and feeding. How to disassemble, clean, care for and reassemble the engines along with tricks.[*] Blueprinting or hopping up the engines. [*] Starting and running hints, propeller options, fuel choice, etc. In particular to breaking in which is so important for the Norvels.[*] A guide to what sort of model size and performance expectations the various sizes can be used with. From 6oz racers to 30oz powered gliders.[*] Anything else Norvel related that I missed.
[/ul]
As much as possible I encourage you guys to remember the fine stuff you wrote before and repost it either under your own name if you wrote it in the first place or as a quote attributed to the proper author. There's tons of fine stuff from the past that is often hard to find if you don't know the ideal search keywords to use. If and when you come across something then feel free to add it in and make this a great resource. I'd also welcome any new material and would ask that for some of the stuff that lots of pictures be taken to best illustrate the steps for those that have not worked much with the Cox products before.
I am an die-hard glow engine flyer because I don't believe in electricity (It must be demons that can go though a solid copper wire without changing it's shape or appearence in any way and do work at the other end) plus the last drop of fuel produces the same power as the first.
I put a Norvel .074 in a Carl Goldberg Tiger 400. It's fast and fun and sounds good and pretty quiet at cruise. but because the idle is a little fussy at the tick over I would like for landing I have been playing with prop sizes. 7x4's still bring it in a little too fast I tried some 7x3.5 with very slight improvement.
finding small props is hard enough but we also have to find tube sizes to fill the prop holes to get a true center. otherwize why bother to balance the prop?
Last night after a prop broke I tried a 8x3 Thats right a Master Airscrew 8x3. way bigger then what they reccomend and I thought it would be too much for that little engine but it swung it just fine. Maybe the extra weight gave it a flywheel effect but it idled down better and best of all it revved great! Like the 3D guys know "diameter is king" The little tiger leaps off in about 20 feet and lands slower. Try it. hope it helps. PS air leaks around carb and needle have to be checked and fixed from time to time.
Control Freak
07-07-2008, 12:49 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Ron,
I'm not surprised that the prop can make a difference in idling and transition but I'm surprised that your Norvel .074 is having problems. Try tweaking the idle with the main screw. Then check the top end to make sure it's not overlean. In most cases, you can find a sweet spot where idle mixture and top end are perfect. Another item that can affect this is the health of the glow plug. A leaking carb doesn't help, though.
I'm not surprised that the prop can make a difference in idling and transition but I'm surprised that your Norvel .074 is having problems. Try tweaking the idle with the main screw. Then check the top end to make sure it's not overlean. In most cases, you can find a sweet spot where idle mixture and top end are perfect. Another item that can affect this is the health of the glow plug. A leaking carb doesn't help, though.
08-16-2008, 12:53 AM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Wow, for the first time in 4 years I finally had a chance to open up my moving boxes that contained RC equipment. I forgot I have a brand new pristine Revlite .074 still in the box never used & purchased in 2004 plus a new receiver, servos, herr mustange, etc. Question, I did spend some time looking at this forum trying to find a solution for new glow heads - the only option I see is drilling out my current new head for a turbo plug? The other sites listed in this forum not longer sell a pre-package option that I can just purchase - unless someone has come onto the scene lately? Is there any new developments? If not, I may jsut stick with my 25 thru 46 engine planes and leave the 1/2a's alone.
08-16-2008, 01:12 AM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Yes, you can take burned out plugs and tap them for turbos. Standard plugs will lose you 1500 or so RPM.
Here's how its done.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45..._1/key_/tm.htm
Here's how its done.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45..._1/key_/tm.htm
08-16-2008, 09:41 PM
#306
RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Here's a substitution I've been making lately in hopes of keeping my NORVELs up and running. The cylinder screws are quite small, M2 x 6mm, and if broken off flush with the crankcase flange, can be difficult to get out. At best, it's frustrating. At worst, you can't get it out.
The holes are drilled and tapped all the way thru the flange. I've been replacing the originals with M2 x 8mm socket head screws. These extend far enough below the crankcase flange so they may be grabbed with a pair of needle nose pliers and turned out the bottom if it gets sheared off flush with the top of the case. With no more cases available, $.35 may keep one in service.
The holes are drilled and tapped all the way thru the flange. I've been replacing the originals with M2 x 8mm socket head screws. These extend far enough below the crankcase flange so they may be grabbed with a pair of needle nose pliers and turned out the bottom if it gets sheared off flush with the top of the case. With no more cases available, $.35 may keep one in service.
08-17-2008, 06:03 AM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
ORIGINAL: AndyW
Yes, you can take burned out plugs and tap them for turbos. Standard plugs will lose you 1500 or so RPM.
Here's how its done.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45..._1/key_/tm.htm
Yes, you can take burned out plugs and tap them for turbos. Standard plugs will lose you 1500 or so RPM.
Here's how its done.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45..._1/key_/tm.htm
08-29-2008, 03:20 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
I keep on hearing about how the 0.74 has so much more power than the .061 and has the best power/weight ratio but the RCU product guide lists the Big Mig .074 as .380HP at 2.65oz (.143HP/oz) and the Big Mig .061 as .310HP at 1.83oz (.169HP/oz) am I missing something here?
08-29-2008, 06:59 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Pictured is a 1/2A sized Tsunami. Forget the span and weight, exactly, but on the intended Big Mig .061, it was a good flyer but was not pattern ship calibre. So I installed the .074 and with a 7 X 3 black Tornado prop, now I could do just about anything the big pattern ships could do, including a knife edge, (sloppy) loop.
When working with engines in the real world with real props, sometimes the figures don't add up. And that can be a good thing.
When working with engines in the real world with real props, sometimes the figures don't add up. And that can be a good thing.
08-31-2008, 11:12 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Even on only 10% it should have been a good engine. I use 25% Cool Power and Omega. Never had a problem with either fuel, each giving good power with excellent throttle response. Of course, any engine can misbehave if the plug is worn out, the fuel is contaminated or is just the wrong brand. Some work better than others, the two mentioned work so well, I never had much reason to try any other.
09-01-2008, 10:54 AM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Bob,
With fresh fuel,, CP 25% and a new plug, try this. As you dial in the high end, note where it just peaks. Then, dial it in a bit more. You'll see that you can get a quarter turn or so with not much change. In other words, it doesn't over lean. This characteristic is unique to some engines, including the Norvel .074.
This is what you use to dial in that perfect idle mixture allowing a forever idle with instant throttle response.
When you find that just lean setting, idle down and observe. Likely, the idle will be rich and it may run but transition to high will be rough. Throttle back and dial in the main needle a hair. Throttle down and see how good your transition is. You should observe an improvement. Keep doing this until the engine will idle steadily for as long as you want and still allow for instant response.
I refine this technique in the air. This is due to unique placement of the fuel tank in various installations and the like.
Here, http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q...n&sitesearch=# you can see the same engine, converted to diesel, flying in the winter.
The remarkable thing is that my first flight was with summer time settings on the compression AND the needle. And yet the engine responded rather well. Only some additional tweaking, in the air, got it running virtually perfectly. Quite a feat considering diesel operation in the winter.
With fresh fuel,, CP 25% and a new plug, try this. As you dial in the high end, note where it just peaks. Then, dial it in a bit more. You'll see that you can get a quarter turn or so with not much change. In other words, it doesn't over lean. This characteristic is unique to some engines, including the Norvel .074.
This is what you use to dial in that perfect idle mixture allowing a forever idle with instant throttle response.
When you find that just lean setting, idle down and observe. Likely, the idle will be rich and it may run but transition to high will be rough. Throttle back and dial in the main needle a hair. Throttle down and see how good your transition is. You should observe an improvement. Keep doing this until the engine will idle steadily for as long as you want and still allow for instant response.
I refine this technique in the air. This is due to unique placement of the fuel tank in various installations and the like.
Here, http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q...n&sitesearch=# you can see the same engine, converted to diesel, flying in the winter.
The remarkable thing is that my first flight was with summer time settings on the compression AND the needle. And yet the engine responded rather well. Only some additional tweaking, in the air, got it running virtually perfectly. Quite a feat considering diesel operation in the winter.
09-01-2008, 08:59 PM
#314
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
I just bought a Big Mig R/C .061 of the Bay that was listed as "never run" and I haven't had a chance to take apart and start it up. There is a light brown film in some of the nooks and crannies, and the prop turns freely springing a 1/4 turn after TDC. Is it possible that this guy wasn't lying or mistaken? It seems like someone decided to take it for a "quick spin" just to hear it run and then wiped it off and put it back in the box. Should I just go though the break in ritual like normal, and how likely is it that the engine is ruined if someone did do that? Like, should I be asking for my money back and hope to find another one?
09-01-2008, 09:04 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Oh... and andy you were right, I wasn't taking the weight of the plane into consideration. The total weight to HP ratio of the .061 would only be higher of the plane sans engine weighed less than 1.74 oz according to my algebra.
09-05-2008, 07:52 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
I have a Revlite .061 R/C and may be buying a C/L. What parts are needed to convert a C/L carb to R/C? I know it's been asked before but I didn't see an answer. Also it's been recommended that I don't tear the engine down to clean it. I've seen some pictures earlier in the thread that weren't too encouraging. A couple people have said since it's a brand new engine just take the backplate off and flush it with fuel. Any thoughts there?
09-06-2008, 11:05 AM
#317
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
I have come into the habit of removing the backplate of all my engines new or used and checking them for "problems" since I purchased a NEW!! Megatech .61 and found shavings in the crankcase.[X(] Big Shavings!![X(] If I had run it that way I would have had scap metal in a big hurry. It is also a great opportunity for you to get plenty of pre start lubrication into the connecting rod etc.
09-06-2008, 12:48 PM
#318
RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
All my norvels were almost ampossible to turn over when new, very tight engines, if your seems free enough to turn over by hand with the plug in it, then it's been run-in by someone before you got it. If you see light brown castor stains on the nooks-n-crannies of the engine, it's probably been ran, just look at the piston top and through the exhaust port, if it has wear marks and the piston is brownish, it's been ran.
09-07-2008, 03:57 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Yep, definitely not ran, brand new engine. No stains, and I can barely turn it over by hand with a prop on when the head is off. I did tear it down completely and clean it with fuel. I found a bit of debris. I also found burrs at the top of the crankcase that needed attention. While I was at it I also polished the intake chambers (I guess that's what they're called). So back to the carb question. Are there any differences between the C/L version and the R/C version other than the carb. And to convert C/L to R/C do you need a whole new carb/throttle barrel/needle assembly?
09-07-2008, 05:25 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
The RC carb off a norvel will fit a CL engine no problems, as long as they are both from the same 'generation' of engines. To change a CL to RC, you do need a whole new card body, barrel assembly. I think the needles may be interchangeable, but could be wrong.
09-07-2008, 06:13 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Thanks Longdan, now where to find an R/C carb assembly....
So what prop is good to break the engine in on? I've read 5x3 cut down to 4x3 but the closest I can find is an APC 4.2 x 2.
So what prop is good to break the engine in on? I've read 5x3 cut down to 4x3 but the closest I can find is an APC 4.2 x 2.
09-07-2008, 06:47 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Some of the very early Norvels had carbs that were glued in. If you have a glue in case, you can trim the bolt in carb and then just glue it in. The other way around won't work because the original glue in carb's stem is too short for conversion to bolt in. Use JB Weld as the glue.
09-07-2008, 06:56 PM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
5x3 will be fine for break-in as is with no trimming. just make sure you do the oil soak and hundred hand turns first. I would also pull the head off first. I've had a bigmig which had a mangled head gasket. It looked like it had not been put in properly before the plug adapter was screwed down at the factory. But it may have just been a one-off thing.
09-08-2008, 01:28 AM
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
Flipping with lots of oil a hundred times works well. However, now and again you can find yourself giving a bit too much prime. In that case, the oil gets washed out of the pores of the cylinder and it could lock up so much that strong arming it might feel like the rod's going to bend.
If that happens, just heat up the cylinder with a heat gun as hot as you can get it. You'll be amazed that it'll free up nicely and that most of the severe pinch will be gone giving you just a pleasant, solid, snap over when you flip it.
If that happens, just heat up the cylinder with a heat gun as hot as you can get it. You'll be amazed that it'll free up nicely and that most of the severe pinch will be gone giving you just a pleasant, solid, snap over when you flip it.
09-08-2008, 08:54 AM
#325
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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ
What is the cylinder coating? It is described as a ceramic coating on the web site. My guess is it is titanium nitride, this being described as a ceramic coating. I have to wonder why it is not more popular given it is a common coating even being applied to drill bits etc.