BobHH

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Just got some older magazines from my good friend David Trogdon. In the American Modeler Annual 1962 this article was there on Leroy Cox and his business before he sold out. Very interesting how he took a small business and grew it. Enjoy!

Bob Harris

combatpigg

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That was interesting, thanks for sharing that BOB!

Andrew

Thanks, Bob. I gives some insight into a very interesting person.

ptulmer

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You get the feeling he would be really disgusted if he could see what present day Cox is like. Men like him put our country at the top.

MJD

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Probably about as disgusted as Vern Estes is with Estes Industries (the Cox owner responsible for the demise of all the fun stuff). He sold it ages ago when it was truly a hobby company.

combatpigg

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I think COX would be more disgusted with the wussification of the young, lazy and obese AMERICAN boy, who has no desire to be more than 10 paces away from the frig after school, and with both of his hands on a NINTENDO controller. At least 1/3 of our nations' boys fit this profile now. I think COX would be understanding about the shift in the global economy that does not shield his products from being under sold now. It would have taken a genius of equal caliber [to Leroy Cox], to keep that company where it was at when he passed it on.

psullivan

CP I think you got it just about right. Every time I here that referance it makes me stop and think..My 200 acres, my guns, my planes, four-wheelers, no nintendo and because I dont play them I dont evan ever like them. I never watch tv. I'ts so funny when I come up to some kid and I weigh only 120 LBS and can lift him up and cary em around, then I tell them I've never worked out in my life and they dont understand..

Great CP, you got me thinking..

Justin

combatpigg

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I'm glad to hear that about you JUSTIN. I'll bet you live a long and happy [and healthy] life if you keep your nose clean. Body, Mind and Spirit are all connected and dependent on each other for complete health and happiness. Some diseases are slow progressing, they might take 20 to 50 years of "wrong living" to develope, but once they arrive, they can make your life a living hell. Some of the chemicals we use in the hobby can do harm, so take a minute and protect yourself when possible. Your whole life each and every day is about making choices.

gcb

Actually, hearing protection is a good place to start.

...HUH?

George

skaliwag

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And Mr Cox was acutely aware of that problem also

build light

One thing that really peaked my attention in this article is the "Thimble Drome activity area" at Disneyland! I never knew of this. I would love to dig up some more info about that.
Cox Could have used more venues like this in more recent years to try and help gain some interest drawing out those Video game junkies...

Oh my Thanks Mr. Harris for sharing this wonderfull article with us.

Robert

flyinrog

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You said a Mouthfull CP..luckily I have 3 nephews into scouting and biking, one made it to be an Eagle Scout..he used to want to design computer games, now he wants to teach and people are trying to persude him not to!!(not enough money)..I'm bettin its more than 1/3 of the nations boys and girls that are going down the path of least resistance...you hardly see kids outside anymore, on bikes, skates anything...man when I was a kid you couldnt keep me inside, (wish I had that problem now), I remember one time (and only one time) I had to ask my mom to call a neighbor to re-schedule because it was just too hot to finish mowing their lawn...this was back when gas was 35 cents a gallon and I was 12 or so and you paid a kid $5 to mow a lawn instead of a guy $40 to mow whether it needs it or not...Rog

rainedave

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Thanks for the article, Bob.

Two things in the story about Cox struck me. One, that he was concerned about overseas cheap-labor competition and two, that he felt controlling noise levels was the key to the hobby's future. And this was 1962.

Forty-four years later his two primary concerns are still the biggest two issues in the hobby industry. I actually think Cox would be all over electric arfs if he was around today. I don't know how he, any anyone else, would have been able to deal with the other issue of overseas cheap-labor competition, though.

ptulmer

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Rainedav, what that article shows is the Cox would be manufacturing his electric foamie warbirds. Competing with cheap overseas labor can be done. It's done everyday. But, it takes planning and an initial investment. That initial investment is what sends people overseas. Why pay engineers to create a cheap way to make something when you can pay a 7 year old Chinese girl to do it right now.

rainedave

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Good point, ptulmer. It does seem to center around integrity, initiative, commitment and determination.

Andrew

[link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/museum/bio/Cox.pdf]Here is a link[/link] into Roy Cox's biography on the AMA website. There is some overlap with the article that Bob shared with us, but it's in PDF.

BobHH

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I still think Leroy's business plan would work today. He went out and made his product popular through all the promotional events he created. Amazing they can't do it today!!

I assume that Estes also purchased all the engine making machinery/equipment. He said he had the assembly time down to 12 minutes per engine. With a basic machine shop rate say $50.00/hr and say $3.00 in raw materials (Tank, Needle valve etc) purchased in quantity items. I come up with about $13.00 in total cost of each engine in today market. So with a 65% margin markup a selling price for the Tee Dee .010 should be around $38.00 each. With offshore labor being around 25% of the USA so the cost should be around $4.50, even with a 130% margin markup selling price should be around $22.00. What would you guys estimate be?

Amazing with 7/100,000th tolerance with these old screw machines for the Tee Dee .010 he must have been quite an engineer/designer. Can we even produce an engine with those tolerances today?

Bob Harris

peterburford

Hey Bob.,

That's just the cost of assembly time. You've overlooked that the components must firstly be made.
$50.00 per hour would probably cover assembly, but certainly not the many $1000,000.00s of machine shop investment.
You will then need a minimum of five times, up to maybe fifteen times, manufacturing cost to retail price.
An so it goes. We can all think of many reasons for not doing anything.

Automatic screw machines were, and still are accurate machines. They just then used cams rather than a computer to control the functions.
Drills and turning tools still performed the work.
The turned components did not need to be more precise than good standard practice.
The close tolerance mentioned was from the Cincinnati centreless grinders and Sunnen honing machines finishing the pistons and cylinders.

I was fortunate to see around the factory in 1967. VERY, very impressive! But hard then too, to show a profit.

We certainly have the knowledge and skills to do it all today and I really can't quite understand how or why we let it get away. In almost every industry that you look at. Then the wealth follows and soon we wont be able to afford even those low-priced imports. Makes you ponder. Well, I guess that Rome too, had it's day.

Peter

ptulmer

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Peter, I've visited some pretty impressive places, too. On my own and with my brother (M.M.E. from GA Tech) who specializes in grinding. You could tool up to make model engines like a Cox for very little money. Certainly not an engine like yours, but everything on a Cox engine was machined or produced by a machine. Without the investment casting, you can do it much, much cheaper and all the same machines could be reused for different engines. I'd also be willing to bet the time per engine could be reduced to assembling the final product and packaging it. Today an automated production line is as close as your nearest engineer.

lukesp

Leroy Cox had balls. So did Jim Walker, Joe Ott etc. etc. They went out and created a market that didn't really exist. Sure, there was an 1/2A market of sorts, but Cox fused it into history with his company. And for all the criticism that has been levelled at Cox products and Cox ownership the one important fact is that it's still there after all this time, and the changes of hand it's had. So, Leroy must have been a pretty powerful guy to achieve such a thing, when all other companies (apart from Fox) have since died his has outsurvived Leroy himself. The name Cox is so big not even the ham fisted efforts of successive owners have managed to confine it to history. Yet.