Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Guys,
Been wanting to buy a real powerhouse for a small racer and it seems the Fora is the best bang for the buck.
Tried to order one from GRS models, but can't get any one to return my calls ( left 3 messages in the last two weeks ). Is this normal for this company?
Also want to find out which is better for my application- speed on a small racer- .049/.061 ( both in the rear and side exhaust ).
Leaning toward the .061 side as it would be easy to fit to most any model, but wanted to discuss w/ the experts at GRS and here before my purchase.
Any comments? I have flown many small racers and pylon 1/2 a's and just want some all out speed.
Thanks for your help in advance, Dale
Is GRS the only place stocking these engines?

Larry Driskill

Dale,

If the rules will allow (assuming you are trying to fit in with some a rulebook race) then the .061 would be the choice because there is no substitute for cubic inches and you have 20 plus % on the .049 when using the .061.

If able, I would opt for the Cyclon .061. Fora are copies of the Cyclon. They are close, but I think the edge goes to the Cyclon. But Cyclons are more $s.

If GRS is napping and you want to spend the extra dollars, try Doug Galbreath.

http://www.the-printer.net/DookCat.html

I'll bet you have your Cyclon within a few days from him.

Combat Pigg who visits here also has a Fora and will no doubt chime in with some good thoughts on your questions.

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Larry,
Thanks for the advise- no race, but just want to go fast w/ the 1/2 A. Did some spec racing w/ the Norvel .061 and enjoyed that and kind of got adicted to the speed.
Looked into the cyclon, but it seems to be almost twice the money- I believe 210.00 vs 120.00, so thats alot of cash for me.
The .061 sounds good- but which exhaust should I go w/? The side or rear?
CP- cyclon worth the extra money over your Fora?
Thanks again, Dale

Larry Driskill

I have only a side exhaust Fora .050 (I don't think I have seen a rear exhaust). But I have Cyclons in both rear and side exhaust and have not seen any performance differences.

The "side exhaust" Cyclons and Foras are really sorta "quarter rear" exhaust vice the 90 degree side exhaust we are more used to. So I would go with whichever would mount the easiest for me.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Dale, the time when it is worth that much extra money is when you've got the other guys' streamer in your sights but you can't reel him in. Otherwise I would say, NO, not worth it if the difference in price is that huge. Back when I got the Fora, the price was about $20 less than the Cyclon and the salesman said there wasn't much difference in performance. 5% difference in power won't equal much more than a couple MPH in real life.
The greatest thing about these engines is that your days of being a mechanic are over now. You can spend more time being a modeler and a pilot now. No more coffee cans full of broken Norvels and Coxes. From now on, 32,000 rpm all day on 15% nitro. If you aren't experienced with bladders, just remember that the #1 mistake is to overfill the bladder and weaken it [it gives it an aneurism, just like a blood vessel]. What this does is spike the pressure, so you close the needle, get "sold" that you have a good setting, launch the plane and then a couple of seconds later when the excess pressure burns off, you get to watch the engine try to cook itself during a lean run. My bladders are about 2" long [when limp ], and the most I ever try to put in it is 1 oz of fuel. I use 1/8" I.D. latex tubing from the fishing supply store.

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks guys- I think I will go w/ the .061 side exhaust Fora. Now if I can get them to return my call.
CP- no other way but the bladder? Have never done that before- I guess I need to learn something new. Any old posts out there w/ pictures or diagrams?
Thanks, Dale

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Dale, a good place to get everything you need for a bladder is Texas Timers owned by Hank Nystrom. Sure, you can roll your own, but if you don't mind spending a little bit more he can assure you success with your first venture into bladders. The check valve makes life much simpler, too.

http://www.texastimers.com/accessori...e_bladders.htm

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks Rain- I will go w/ their stuff Dale

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Dale,

If you're not restricted to class and don't need a throttle and just want to go WFO, consider the .074 from LiteMachines at about 25 Bucks. Same or less weight than a Fora, maybe.

Ought go like stinkeroo on a 6 X 3 and 35% fuel.

You'll need a head clamp and glow plug and a front, prop drive washer but you can get them from Sig.

Just a thought.

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Andy,
I have 3 or 4 .074's and enjoy them alot on my planes, but wanted something really fast - like 35,000 rpm fast for a outlaw racer- got a need for speed you know.
Thanks for the heads up on the Lite machine engines though- I have one of theirs w/ a Norvel .061 that had a Cox TD one it when they first came out. I enjoy flying it, but has been hanging on my ceiling for 2 plus years now.
Dale

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Ouch, 35,000 RPM. Yeah, I see what you mean.

What size prop? What fuel?

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Andy,
CP claims 32,000 all day w/ 15% nitro and I would guess a APC 4.75 x 3 or 4. I think Fora has custom props for their engines as well.
Dale

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Dale, THE prop seems to be the 4.2x4 on a 120 sq inch SWR. You will have to throw the plane to get the plane flying, even at 11 ozs RTF, the 4 inch prop needs a little help at launch time. You will also want to use a 1.25" tall control horn on the elevator and come off the inner hole on the elevator servo arm, of course having dual rates is nice, then you won't run out of elevator when it's time to land. A plane this small and fast can make 4 minutes seem like a half hour!

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Dale,

The .074s typically take a 7 x 3 or 4. I suppose on a 4.75 X 3 you'd still not get over 30K, but what if? [sm=50_50.gif]

OK,,, I got me some itty-bitty props and 60% fuel. Maybe I'll try it meself. [X(]

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Andy,
I have not tried speed props on the .074, but give it a shot. The Big Mig RC .061 gives me about 21,000 - 22,000 w/ the 4.75 x 3 on the ground, so see how the .074 compares.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If you are looking for speed, forget about 3 pitched props, the most you will get is 75-80 mph from a 30K engine. The .074 runs great with open exhaust, it will spin some of the higher pitched props that APC offers pretty well. My memory isn't real good here, but APC has some props in the 6x5 size range.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

CP,

So the .074 has the torque to deliver the thrust with higher pitch and does not depend on rpm to do the job, to give you speed?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

ANDY, not exactly. Torque is mainly a function of stroke, followed by combustion force, so there is only so much that is on tap here. Like any other engine mod, if you bolt on a prop that forces you to open up the needle, then you are developing more HP. Generally speaking, there are practical limits, I have under propped this engine into the 30,000 rpm range and the plane only did about 70 mph. The .074 runs nicely in the mid 20's. You will need to buy some props in the 5x5 and 6x4 size range and be prepared to do some prop work [removing material] until you arrive at the working combo for your particular airframe. Depending on the plane, you might find that a 5x4.5 works best. You can't expect to be able to buy an off the shelf prop for such a one of a kind application, that is just perfect [but thanks to APC, you can get close]. If you have a COX 5x3, 3 blade prop,[the only good use of this prop I've ever seen] the .074 can give your plane a nice ride, if the plane isn't too big. I think APC has a 5.5x4.5 that works very well, but not if the engine is mounted to a picnic table.....the whole package has to be considered. [ A plain old 6x4 tends to work well if all you're after is bolting something on and having fun.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

CP,

I guess what I meant was that the .074 develops more torque than an .049 as in the origin of this thread. And the point I was trying to make was that if a Fora weighs as much as the .074, perhaps the .074 might be a good choice as long as you prop it to get what you want. Not necessarily rpm on the ground, but speed in the air. And the .074 spinning more pitch, (because it can, due to more cubes) would give you the speed you need.

build light

Andy what is the part number for the .074 from LiteMachines. I have looked there before and was pretty baffeled. I have thought more than once to buy from them.

Robert

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I see what you're saying now, ANDY. So far, I 've been unable to duplicate the FORAs' performance with anything! I haven't weighed the 2 engines but it sounds reasonable that they're the same weight. Remember, for a fair comparison that the .074 needs to be weighed MOUNT & ALL, because the FORA has its' mount built in to the back plate.
We might set up a timing zone tomorrow, and I have a couple of good running .074s to test. The trouble is that they are mounted on 3/4A sized racers, not 1/2A sized, like the Mustang SWR. It seems reasonable that the .074 could be made to run with the FORA........not enough work has been done yet. AFAIK, nobody has set a .074 BIG MIG up like an AME.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Robert,

Try this:

http://www.shopatron.com/index/113.0.265.282.0.0.0

Part number is 1-70707

Shopatron is LMs online order facility. But the price shown is the regular price. You may end up not getting the 50% discount. Best to email Debra as shown or call her at the number given.

And have a look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h76s_N8WPs

This is the .06 version, stock. On a Grish 6 X 3 and 25% Cool Power, top end is quite respectable.

Here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiLit...elated&search=

Is the same engine converted to rear exhaust with a custom made, exhaust throttle. We lose 800 RPM but throttling still remains reliable. The rear exhaust version has been tested with a CS tuned pipe for a gain of 1.5K. One day, with a custom, brass bushed rod, I'll be revisiting the piped version on small props just to see what we get.

Again, to keep in mind, no glow plug or head clamp and no prop drive washer. But for the price of either the .06 or .07, you have pretty good potential, dollar for dollar.

I have another .074 on the way. If I can get some prior projects concluded, I'm going to try and see what the .074 can do flat out on big nitro and small props on a knockaround foamie. [:@]

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

CP,

If on a 4.2x4, 30%nitro, suction feed, no muffler, medium heat OS turbo plug you did 38K static, would this be good? Would a Fora .06 do this? How much would someone pay for an .06 that could do this right out of the box?

I've gone to the fora website and while they show a link to pricing, they show no prices. How/where does on buy these engines??

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Not much time between the last two posts... [:-]

MJD

Toad

38k on a 4.2x4 prop on suction??
I too would like to know where to buy one that can do that.