mtntopgeo

My Feedback: (12)

3:06 PM 9/14/2006

Long intro, so to avoid boredom, and to see what happened, go to the next paragraph. One flying season after decideing to get into this RC thing, (played with U-control in the early 50s, then been absent from the hobby for about 50+ years.) I had not accomplished anything except to spend a lot of cash, & destroy a load of equipment. ( no clubs, or RC enthusiasts in the area, to learn from.) The 2nd year I had discovered this RCU site, & learned that almost everything I had done was done wrong. By this time I was building my own stuff. (cheaper to replace with pink foam, rather than to buy new ARFs or kits) Strangely enough, even though I was trying to get started with electrics, I usually ended up following the same names back to the 1/2a forum. By the end of the 2nd flying season, I was sucessful enough that I rarely needed to use the Lawn & Leaf bag to carry the pieces back home. Had enough confidence then, to try an ARF again. Stumbled across an ad for the Mini Super Sportster, & put it together with a Astroflight 010 brushless. Weighed 16 oz with LIPO, & no landing gear. First time out, didn't know if my pink foamies were that bad, or if the MSS was that great, But hardly took anything else out for the remainder of that flying season. Wanted more power, & nitro, but wasn't gonna change anything on that plane. iT WAS TOO "PERFECT". Bought another MSS, & put an Enya .09-IV on it. (Weighed just shy of 20 oz) With a MAS 7x4, & 10% fuel, the thing was a blast. About this time I began to notice all the noise about the Norvel .074. Bought one & went through the whole "soak with oil, turn over a hundred times, use the heat gun, use a small starter, instant stoping, prop spitting, look for the conical spacer & prop screw, & repeat the above" break in routine. If I hadn't gotten the warnings from others on this site, (I'm one of those people who throw the instruction manual away soon as the box is open.) I would have laid the thing on my welding table & wailed on it with a 3 pound beater, before it got 3 min. of running time on it. Once it acumulated about 10 min. of running time, all was well. Easy starting, & sweet running engine! Took off the Enya, & installed the Norvel on the MSS. Went to the flying field (cow pasture) put it in the air, & what dismal performance, compared to the Enya. That's when I spent an afternoon comparing both engines with different props. (see the pic showing RPMs) The same prop was used on each engine, when making a comparison. Was obvious that the Norvel was gonna need a smaller prop, (and smaller &/or lighter plane) to get the same performance. Ordered another MSS wing, & slapped a profile together. It weighed 14.75 oz. Should have weighed 13oz, but that heavy fuel tank, & that piece of 3/8th balsa, for the fuse.,really blew the diet. Anyway, took it out to the field with a MAS 7x3, & 10% fuel (with 20% all Castro) Again, performance was dismal compared to the Enya. The engine would unload & bog down with even the slightest change in attitude. Changed fuel to 33% nitro for the next flight. The extra 1100 RPMs weren't too noticeable on the level, but what a difference on the verticle. Just a fraction of the bogging down from what it was with the 10% fuel. Still, the Norvel powered profile was off pace from the Enya powered MSS. Changed prop to a MAS 6x4. I was worried that the profile was too dirty, the wing too big, & the weight too much for the 6x4 prop. I was also worried about the launch. All worries were for naught. The launch was uneventful, no unwanted gymnastics, but the controls were a bit sluggish for the first couple of seconds. Then a couple of seconds later, I realized that I had a lot more plane than my beginner-like skills were ready for. (Until the Enya powered MSS came along, the "wildest"planes that I was accustomed to were the 010 MSS, & a Saito .30 powered Lazy Tiger.) I was in over my head. After about 20 sec. of correcting, & over correcting, & somehow not crashing, I finally pulled the throttle back to about half, & "tip toe'd through the rest of the tank. Took me about a dozen flights to get back up to "full throttle" again. The speed of the plane didn't "wow" me as much as the instant response did. Just think "up" & the plane was going verticle. Soon, I started to hear a "snap" sound during a quick inside pull-out from a dive. Two more rubber bands on the wing stopped that, but then heard about a half sec "drum" sound when pulling out of a near verticle dive. Closer inspection, after that flight, showed small wrinkles above the ribs. Wrinkles were worse on the ribs nearer the center of the wing Haven't figured this out yet, but assume that it's not good. Now that the lighter norvel profile had the performance edge, I had to give the Enya one more chance. Which brings us to the next paragraph. (bet you're glad to see that coming).

Took the Enya powered MSS out with a MAS 7x5 prop. Also took a cut-down 7x6 (to 6" dia) along. (does anybody make a 6x6 prop?) The performance at least equaled the norvel powered profile, & was having a ball doing some low passes. Well, since this little cow pasture is totally surrounded by tall lodgepole pines, it's pretty tricky to do low passes. What you don't see on the pic came out the first tree about the size of confetti. The engine (minus prop) sang at "hi C" until it hit the second tree. It gets worse, checked the engine out, & the crank snout was bent, I staightened it out, & ran the engine. All was well. Put the engine in an old foamie, & it ran good for about a min, then started to go sour. Got worse, then went to an cycle of "on/off" I killed the engine, bought the plane in & checked things out. One crankcase bolt was missing, & the others were about to fall out. Guess that I forgot to give final torqueing to the bolts I expected the con rod to be bad, but it looked good. Fired up the engine, but it would only run about 14,000 with the 7x4 prop. Tore it completely down & the piston has some weird looking patterns on it. I don't mind losing the MSS, but to lose a well-broken-in Enya is a bummer. The new Enya only reached 12800 with a 7x4, & only ran for about 30 secs, before losing RPMs. After a half gal of fuel, it'll reach about 14000, & will run for about 45 sec. A long way to go yet.


I have intentions to continue this show. Got a feeling that in order to find the area where the norvel can equal the Enya, the plane is gonna be quite small. ( 30" ws, 200" area, & 13 oz weight ????????) Probably gonna be way too fast for these old eyes, & slow reflexes. This is all gonna take time though. In addition to building a cleaner 13 oz profile, breaking in the new Enya, finishing up a BRONCO from esprit, (must be about a million pieces in that kit) & finding another .074 Norvel (converting the Bronco to nitro) I'm planning to move off this "hill" in another few weeks. Winters are too long, & it's gotten to be too lonely up here! Probably wander around for about 6 months, looking for some other place to call "home". When I get back "on line", this'll be the first site that I'll look up. I sincerely thank you guys for all the information that this old man has gleened from your inputs, also for a goodly amount of entertainment. Hope that you didn't get too bored from my "Ramblin". ......... George K.

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

Cool post! I would have never thought the Enya would run that good. A friend had a .09 Enya in a 1/2a Shrike, went like a rocket, I thought it was just the plane.
My sister loves Arizona, you might want to look there.

gcedillo

Great post George, sometimes fun comes from walking away from the beaten road.

injunnut1

Very interesting post ..... thanks for taking the time to do it and do it WELL. The prop speed chart is VERY interesting indeed ..... where are all the Norvel enthusiasts who claim the Norvel .074 will out perform most ALL of the current .10 size engines ..... and considering that this Enya .09 IV is the 'Old Tech' iron / baffle piston technology to boot (NOT-even schneurle ported)?! For shame, for shame!!! <GRIN>

BMatthews

Well, in a way this isn't a really fair comparison since you're comparing engines of differing displacement. The larger displacement will deal with the larger props easier. But it does suggest to me that the 074 and the Enya are producing close to the same HP/cu inch. And that alone is impressive.

colingw

This is encouraging. I have a never run Enya .09 c/l which is going to go in a "Warlock" 1/2A control line combat wing - built from an old Aeromodeller plan. (Note, I'm using the UK definition of 1/2A, ie. up to .099). The plans show a PAW 149, but I expect the Enya to be a close equivalent if not slightly more powerful.

Even though Enya call it a .09, at .0988 (or 1.62cc) it is actually almost a .10.

cheers,
Colin

build light

Bruce I agree. That is impressive on the Norvel's part considering the displacement but there are 2 other major points that are not equal.

1. weight difference. Ounce for ounce I suspect the Norvel would massacre the Enya when compared in HP per ounce.
2. fuel difference. If I were comparing performance with an automobile I would be using the same fuel for sure. I wonder what the Enya would be like with 33 percent nitro ( not that I would reccomend it)?

I still think I would rather have the Norvel in the long run.

Robert

mtntopgeo

My Feedback: (12)

First off, my thanks to those who read, & took time to respond to this post. Next I I'd like to reply to those who made, what I considered to be, a positive critique. Yes indeed, this was an unfair comparison between apples & oranges.The Norvel is a .074, and, as Colin said, the Enya is a .10 size engine; about a third more displacement. It was not my intention to bash one engine or the other, & to come up with a winner. I had some idea of what the Enya was capable of, but never even saw or heard of a Norvel. After reading all that I could find on this site, I was even more confused. Some members, claimed to be selling all their ,10s, & even .15s because the .074 gave better performance. One member, who had a very large, .074 Norvel powered plane, even challenged to put his plane up against anyone with an equal size .09 powered plane. Then there were those who had the .074 Norvel on Mini Funtanas, Mini Super Sports, & even the Little Extra (which was supposed to be made for the .074) all complaining about lazy performance, & little or no verticle. Just had to see for myself, where the thing really stood. No doubt that the Norvel has more power. (provided you run it at the higher RPMs) No doubt that it beats the Enya in H.P. per weight. To me, this is the real biggy, if you're interested in building a large (36 " w.s.) lite plane! Going back to my hoped for 13oz profile, just swapping out the Norvel for the Enya gains you an additional 2 oz.. An instant 15% weight penalty. This is awful hard to overlook. .... As far as the equal fuel thing, I totally disagree. (however, I blame myself, here, for not stateing all the facts.) If you built a couple of small block chevies, one for alky, with 14 to 1 C.R., & the other for 87 octane regular pump gas with 9 to 1 C.R., you would not run both engines on the same fuel when you put them on the dyno. Norvel has this engine right for the 35% stuff. I had done some testing with a coule of old baffle piston Enyas, with some added nitro. When I looked up my notes, I decided that I'd stay with the 10 % nitro. On an OLD (un-numbered model) U-control .09 Enya, I gained less than 500 RPMs going from 10% to 21% nitro. On a .15-IV I only gained 400 RPMs going from 10% to 33%. Sorry that I didn't include that info in the original post. ......So what engine would I choose. Well considering that the eyes & reflexes ain't so very good, other than to do some more testing, I'd probably stay with a "big" plane & the Enya. BUT, I've got this Dominator 200, here, and if I shortened the w.s. a bit, & put a 5" dia prop on the Norvel, and..................... To be continued.................... George K.