ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Raymond, if I'm out of line for taking your ball and running, please be gracious and not slap me.

What we need to start off this idea is an idea. Yup, didn't make much sense and wasn't supposed too! A theme MAN! We need a theme!

Ok, give us a one word (or on phrase) description of what you'd like to see it be. Examples: cartoonish, pattern, old pattern, Keith Laumerish, etc.

flyswatter

pt, I assume you are talking about the CC plane. By theme, are you talking about what design characteristics we want in the plane?

If so, then here are a couple of criterion to chase around the barn:

1) Stable and tracks well (stays on line and goes where you point it)
2) Penetrates wind (kinda windy down here in GA and, sometimes, in the NC hills)

I am sure there are a lot more design considerations that others might suggest. Once we decide on these, then it will be a little easier to bash a design out. Such thangs as wing and power loadings, moments, etc. will become a little more apparent.

Sorry to hijack your thread that you hijacked from Raymond.

dieFluggeister

I dont know about a single phrase or theme but I favor a 'volksplane' or peoples' plane, designed to be:
*Simple construction with readily available materials. Fast build with low piece count.
* Durable, repairable in the field.
* I like FS's idea of stable, all weather flyer. Something that beginners can fly and launch with confidence too.
* Inexpensive off the shelf equipment found at your LHS.

The powerplant is the killer in my opinion. With Cox and Norvels hard to find, its getting difficult for a 1/2A designs.



(edit - punctuation)

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Well, I'm trying to get you guys to say what it should look like or what era it should come from. Flying characteristics would come after that like you point of FS. dF, the Volksplane idea is a good one. Easily modified to many different looks. If we get some votes for that, we could present themes for mods to be included on the plans.

http://www.volksplane.com/photos.htm

hogflyer

How about something with a 2415 airfoil?. It should be gentle enough for the low time pilots, yet dialed up can do quite well, and does pretty good in moderate winds. Ailerons can be added, and it works well with strip and barndoor (I favor barndoor, but that's just me - I'm also a huge fan of Rube Goldberg ).

I favor keeping the Reedie Race and Unlimited as they are, and adding another class for a fun fly compeition. Using the same basic generic design (with some mods like open cockpit vs. canopy allowable, but keep a basic airframe shape?), power up to .10 (allows the use of the OS .10 LA and others that are reliable, easily available, yet low on power so you don't have a 3D rocket ship since Cox and Norvel are going the way of the dinosaurs - think about what is or will be available in the future for guys why have not discovered the enchanting ways of 1/2A.), etc. I'm sure something can be done to make a fun fly balance out the capabilites of various planes and power plants.

Hogflyer

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Hog, it doesn't have to be added, just gotten around to. I really don't want to do a one-design racer. If it were me, I'd take that off the table right now. A funfly design would give more leeway, but I don't care if it's not capable of anything but a mass flight.[X(]

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

I tell you guys one thing. If it's going to represent Raymond, it's gotta be fat and cute like a fat, little bald baby.

hogflyer

Take the Astro Hog and scale it to 50% and your half done (well PT, it is cute and fat). At a 36" span, it should fly on anything from an .049 to .10.

I agree, Reedie Racers and Unlimiteds should be off the table - don't mess with success.

Keep this limited only to a fun fly type plane.

Mass flight = mass carnage [X(]

Hogflyer

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

The Astrohog would me an easy mod to a Volksplane type model. If we go with that, the Astrohog is going to be the way mine looks!


If you like the VP idea, raise your hand... I mean say "AYE"!

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Well, if beginners are to be kept in mind I suggest a shoulder-wing layout for the ease of hand lanching and added stability.

hogflyer

Well, you could always take the Hog, and rework it to change it to a shoulder wing. This would allow the cockpit area and turtle deck to be retained, but allow for some fuselage to hand below the wing for easier launching. I've done some sketching similar to this and it really doesn't look bad at all.

Other possiblilities would be to allow both a shoulder wing and low wing version of a Mini-Hog - builders choice. I don't think at this scale they would fly much different.

Or maybe just change to a modified Jr. Falcon so it will accept engine up through an .10 LA. But I'm kinda partial to Hogs my self.

How about landing gear? Training wheel, uh, I mean tricycle, conventional, or none at all?

Hogflyer

Tim Wiltse-RCU

I am fond of this designIt's 36" span and weighed 14oz RTF. Was quick if you got the nose down but landed nice and slow. Used the Little Stick airfoil. Plenty of room inside for radio gear. I think one with flaps and throttle would be real fun. I still have it's wing around here someplace.

LAter,
Tim

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Tim, I really love that design. Very sharp. I would lengthen the tail moment about 1 1/2" and extend the nose about 1/2" for better tracking and less pitch sensitivity. To my eye, that's an awefully short moment arm. But, overall I really like it.

Mr67Stang

Just a thought for simple build and low parts count. A mini Ultra Stick. Something in a weight class that could fly reliably with a .061. I am using the AP .061 Wasp in my plane (Chinese Norvel) and it is very reliable easy to tune (good for the beginner) and on a 2 oz tank will keep you busy longer than you want to be. I like throttle and aileron control but for a windy day flyer you will want the rudder as well to crab on in when the time comes. My 18 oz Cesna like plane with 140 Sq in of wing area hand launched easily into the wind and could fly pretty slow. If we can get a Stick up to about 200 Sq in wing I think it would be something anyone could fly. I do like the idea of the 1/2a Astro Hog though but don't molest it into a shoulder wing[:@] That plane just would not be as beginner freindly.

SGC

How about a 1/2a Cloud dancer at say 36-40" span, its a sweat flying model, builds light and looks good.
Stewart

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

All right you guys. Are we going to do an original design to represent the C-Crew or just copy something? (the latter really reduces my interest)

SGC

PT, I agree.
I posted my sketch of a canard in the other thread but got no interest???????
But here it is again and my design reasoning.
I built a combat wing for my son 44"span magnum15 powered 21oz's great flyer but has some shortcomeings that are easily overcome , 1/ the elevator gets masked as the model slows to land so touchdown isnt as slow as it could be - glide is very flat, 2/ model tends to fall off to the side in long verticals , indicateing not enough fin authortity,3/ I had to add some lead to the tail to get the cg even with the battery as far back in the tail as it would fit --------- sooooooo the canard, puts the elevator out front- fixes No 1 but adds to 3, so lengthen the fuse tail to fix 2 and 3 should be a sweet 1/2a flyer at about 32-34" span with good tracking and a slow touchdown.

Tim Wiltse-RCU

I vote for something fresh and new! We need something weird and yet good looking and that will fly well and easy to build. Anyone besides myself up for a forward swept shoulder wing job with a P-51 type canopy?

LAter,
Tim

small_rcer

Well I assume that the C-Crew means Canadian eh?

The best flying most indestructible plane I have had was a sort-of-nickel by Randy Randolph. We say sort-of because we never bought the plan. We had the Twilighter plan and it appeared the same airfoil in section and size was used. So we used Bristol Board and made fuse and tail feather templates by measuring the magazine. The tail feathers were some what bigger I believe than Randy intended. We put three full sized servos, a Cox Dragonfly, a 2oz sullivan flex tank, and would fly that thing for hours. In a shallow dive it had good speed. Tore the landing gear off it early on and gave up. Never used it again. We taught people how to fly with that. It would glide well and landed pretty slowly. It would track as if on rails. If anything it was spiral neutral due to the massive fin and rudder.

Eventually we used a Black Widow with the Black Widow tank replaced with a product back. Took out the throttle and just flew. We had 15+ minute flights of boreing holes in the sky. Eventually landing in a rock quarry did it in.

So a high wing with good fuse cross section for easy use of full size gear, 260+ square inches of wing area ( we had 41 inch span x 6 3/4 chord or 275+), plan for a 2 oz flex tank, ( flex tanks always seemed to work better than the rigid ones ), rudder and elevator only, enough rudder/fin area to have just about neutral spiral stability, straight bottom or nearly so with a little kick up to keep the tail out of the dirt, horizontal tail on top surface of fuse to give it some ground protection, are just some of the starting points.

We found that we ended up with Randy's airfoil almost at zero or negative incidence to keep the plane from zooming out of a dive. The wing was only 1 inch thick. All up weight was about 22 -24 oz but with that area was easy to fly at about 12.5 oz / sq ft.. So use say 12.0 oz / sq ft as a wing loading target. It would fly in the windy days when others would not, but it would be rock steady.

It always seems that planes we had fly better in our memories than those we fly now.

Will this design be ready later tonite or tomorrow AM?

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Here's something I was doodling with a while back. Maybe not this exact profile, but the same theme: a cabin-type, sorta-scale design with the option of two different wings. A flat-bottomed with dihedral or a 2416 without dihedral. I drew ribs for both wings. The tail could be built out of sheet to simplify construction. The fuselage uses tabs to align things and make construction "foolproof." It has a one-piece elevator which simplifies things, and can be built E&R or A&E. It would lend itself well to laser cutting, too.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If you want simple, maximum fun and down and dirty, then make the one design plane a 18"x18" PBF! Just to see who can do 2 laps with one! The advanced class could add a difficulty factor, like the race isn't over until you do a tail touch [a rule 9].

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Oh Patrick!

"I tell you guys one thing. If it's going to represent *, it's gotta be fat and cute like a fat, little bald baby." (yes, I "discovered" the color button.)

Here's my current thinking; this is going to be WAY harder than I thought!!!

I like RaineDave's design a lot (don't delete that file!). I like CP's idea for a PBF (who did that design called Cornbread - cuz bisquits are round?). I like the mini Cloud Dancer. I like any of Bob's Early R/C's and almost anything from "my youth". Yes, a WWI pseudo-scale would be kewl. I was thinking about yet another 'Face variation on the drive home but I'm afraid to say anything more than "DeltaFace" now.

Guys, I'm sorry but how are we ever going to come to some consensus???

Mr67Stang

Simple. Get our designs together lable them somehow and set up a poll thread. I am no designer but I would be willing to vote on what I like.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

I really like RD's!

dieFluggeister

I say do it like the government does it. Set forth a list of specifications and then have various builders submit original designs and eventually prototypes which are tested by pilots and judged by a panel. Specify the power plant, budget allowance, aerobatic capabilities, etc. Winner gets the contract for say, the next two years?

Hmmm... sounds an awful lot like a design contest.


IMHO its a pretty awesome responsibility representing the best of the Carolina Crew and 1/2A modeling today.