Ace Ultimate Bipe
10-29-2006, 05:34 PM
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Ace Ultimate Bipe
While waiting on my motor mount for my 1/2a shrike, I decided to keep working on an Ace Ultimate Bipe that BanjoAirplane gave me....I have never worked with or covered foam before....can someone suggest a decent brand of covering for foam, or any tips for covering it??
thanks
-Bill
thanks
-Bill
10-29-2006, 08:28 PM
#3
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
I did it with monocote on low temp,been awhile though ,I just found my hobbico iron has started to creep up the temp control while I'm using it, last night while covering the shrike after a short time the knob would be all the way up! and melted some of my covering....Rog
10-29-2006, 09:03 PM
#5
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
Bill,
I've had good results on Ace foam Wings with econocoat, I've had better results with Micro lite covering. With both you just need to be sure to turn the iron temp down. I like the micro light better as it's lighter and covers curved surfaces and wing tips with better looking results. Be sure to lightly sand the bumps off the wings.
Darren
I've had good results on Ace foam Wings with econocoat, I've had better results with Micro lite covering. With both you just need to be sure to turn the iron temp down. I like the micro light better as it's lighter and covers curved surfaces and wing tips with better looking results. Be sure to lightly sand the bumps off the wings.
Darren
10-29-2006, 09:52 PM
#6
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Econokote is advertised as a low temp covering. It is really hard to do a perfect job over foam, even harder to keep it looking good. That tinted cellophane that I use is very low temp and very cheap.
Econokote is advertised as a low temp covering. It is really hard to do a perfect job over foam, even harder to keep it looking good. That tinted cellophane that I use is very low temp and very cheap.
10-30-2006, 04:06 AM
#9
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
The best covering for foam is balsa.
My ACE Simple Ultimate had sheeted wings and it flew great.
For covering directly over foam I've used Ultracote, Monokote and Towerkote. Towerkote worked the best. Just remember that you can't do any shrinking, just cover it. Packing tape works too, but it looks horrible. The finish wont be too great regardless of what covering you use directly over foam. Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips. I've attached a couple pictures to show what I mean by doing cap strips on foam - it creates a really nice effect.
My ACE Simple Ultimate had sheeted wings and it flew great.For covering directly over foam I've used Ultracote, Monokote and Towerkote. Towerkote worked the best. Just remember that you can't do any shrinking, just cover it. Packing tape works too, but it looks horrible. The finish wont be too great regardless of what covering you use directly over foam. Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips. I've attached a couple pictures to show what I mean by doing cap strips on foam - it creates a really nice effect.
10-30-2006, 08:28 AM
#11
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer
Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips.
Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips.
I first tried this in '76 with a 1/2A SST and have found nothing really better.
10-30-2006, 11:06 AM
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
I get excellent results with TowerKote. Get some kind of thermometer to check your iron's temp. The TowerKote works and sticks well at temps that won't melt the foam (but avoid holding the iron on one spot for very long).
10-30-2006, 12:44 PM
#15
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
ORIGINAL: eroc144
Is foam dope-proof?
Is foam dope-proof?
Nothing helps in the first case! For the second part, the solvents in butyrate and nitrate dopes will dissolve most beaded foam.
10-30-2006, 06:38 PM
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer
The best covering for foam is balsa. My ACE Simple Ultimate had sheeted wings and it flew great.
For covering directly over foam I've used Ultracote, Monokote and Towerkote. Towerkote worked the best. Just remember that you can't do any shrinking, just cover it. Packing tape works too, but it looks horrible. The finish wont be too great regardless of what covering you use directly over foam. Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips. I've attached a couple pictures to show what I mean by doing cap strips on foam - it creates a really nice effect.
The best covering for foam is balsa.
My ACE Simple Ultimate had sheeted wings and it flew great.For covering directly over foam I've used Ultracote, Monokote and Towerkote. Towerkote worked the best. Just remember that you can't do any shrinking, just cover it. Packing tape works too, but it looks horrible. The finish wont be too great regardless of what covering you use directly over foam. Seriously, consider sheeting the wings with 1/32" balsa. You can either fully sheet them or do a LE, TE and cap strips. I've attached a couple pictures to show what I mean by doing cap strips on foam - it creates a really nice effect.
I like this idea! I think I will try it.....thanks for the tip! The instructions say to put strapping tape on each wing from tip to tip for added strength....if I do the sheeting do you think I still need to put the strapping tape on?
Raymond- What is laminating film? I have never heard of it.....
-Bill
10-30-2006, 07:17 PM
#17
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
No, you wont need the strapping tape. Start by wetting a piece of soft 1/32" X 4" balsa. I use a little spray bottle to make it damp. Carefully roll the balsa back and forth until it is a U shape like the LE of the wing. Use a few elastics to hold the shape until it dries (not on the wing yet) - you can use heat gun if you're impatient, like me. Make sure that the foam has been sanded smooth and vacuumed clean then spray the inside with 3M77 and apply to the wing. Be careful, because it will stick as soon as it touches and you wont be able to reposition it. Glue on the TE, and cap strips and you're done. If you fully sheet it is actually easier, but it is extra weight. I've attached pictures so you can see how the balsa wraps around the LE.
10-30-2006, 10:11 PM
#18
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
Hi Bipe
The outstanding quality and finish of your builds leaves no doubt that your sheeting method with foam is superior. There is a lot to be said however for the simplicity of just covering over the foam with film. Here are pics of an Ace Simple 400 covered with Econocoat and a Simple Extra covered with Microlite. They came out ok. The picture of the Extra is after 30+ flights. The 400 was distroyed due to pilot error after many flights.
Darren
The outstanding quality and finish of your builds leaves no doubt that your sheeting method with foam is superior. There is a lot to be said however for the simplicity of just covering over the foam with film. Here are pics of an Ace Simple 400 covered with Econocoat and a Simple Extra covered with Microlite. They came out ok. The picture of the Extra is after 30+ flights. The 400 was distroyed due to pilot error after many flights.
Darren
10-30-2006, 10:42 PM
#19
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
True, and when it's in the air, who will know the difference? I prefer the sheeting for looks and because it stands up better. The ACE wings were designed strong enough to not need sheeting, which is why I don't use them anymore and why I make my own cores that weigh about 1/3 as much, but they need to be sheeted for strength.
10-30-2006, 11:19 PM
#20
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
Bipe,
I was going to mention in my last post, but forgot, that you do make your own foam wing cores and that the are are a far cry from the old/new heavy Ace foam cores. At 1/3 the weight and the same strength I would build them that way too, if I had the means to do so. Someday I'll delve into the 'Wire Cutters World" but I don't have the tools or skills to build wings in that way yet.
Darren
I was going to mention in my last post, but forgot, that you do make your own foam wing cores and that the are are a far cry from the old/new heavy Ace foam cores. At 1/3 the weight and the same strength I would build them that way too, if I had the means to do so. Someday I'll delve into the 'Wire Cutters World" but I don't have the tools or skills to build wings in that way yet.
Darren
10-30-2006, 11:32 PM
#21
RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
They're not as strong before they're sheeted. After sheeting they're probably more than 1/2 the weight of the ACE wings, but then they're much stronger than the ACE ones.
I sheeted the ACE wings when I used them though. Just personal preference. My wife's Firefly has an ACE wing with LE and cap strips.
Here's a pic of my ACE Simple Ultimate. Sorry it's not the best picture. The son of a friend of mine has it now.
I sheeted the ACE wings when I used them though. Just personal preference. My wife's Firefly has an ACE wing with LE and cap strips.
Here's a pic of my ACE Simple Ultimate. Sorry it's not the best picture. The son of a friend of mine has it now.
11-30-2007, 02:08 PM
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RE: Ace Ultimate Bipe
ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer
No, you wont need the strapping tape. Start by wetting a piece of soft 1/32" X 4" balsa. I use a little spray bottle to make it damp. Carefully roll the balsa back and forth until it is a U shape like the LE of the wing. Use a few elastics to hold the shape until it dries (not on the wing yet) - you can use heat gun if you're impatient, like me. Make sure that the foam has been sanded smooth and vacuumed clean then spray the inside with 3M77 and apply to the wing. Be careful, because it will stick as soon as it touches and you wont be able to reposition it. Glue on the TE, and cap strips and you're done. If you fully sheet it is actually easier, but it is extra weight. I've attached pictures so you can see how the balsa wraps around the LE.
No, you wont need the strapping tape. Start by wetting a piece of soft 1/32" X 4" balsa. I use a little spray bottle to make it damp. Carefully roll the balsa back and forth until it is a U shape like the LE of the wing. Use a few elastics to hold the shape until it dries (not on the wing yet) - you can use heat gun if you're impatient, like me. Make sure that the foam has been sanded smooth and vacuumed clean then spray the inside with 3M77 and apply to the wing. Be careful, because it will stick as soon as it touches and you wont be able to reposition it. Glue on the TE, and cap strips and you're done. If you fully sheet it is actually easier, but it is extra weight. I've attached pictures so you can see how the balsa wraps around the LE.
Been pondering trying this by building a cutter. and using with the templates
somegeek