Something Appears to be Missing
03-18-2007 | 05:32 PM
#28
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
Fireman,
What you propose as being the reason in your second paragraph is exactly what I was referring to when I said the chicken and the egg. No product, so no demand - no demand, so no product.
You're right, marketing isn't about selling someone what they want, it's about convincing them what you're selling is what they need. So, it's logical to try to sell them what can bring the highest profit with the lowest outlay of capital and labour.
I'm hopeful that Norvel will come back, but I have no delusions that we will see any growth in 1/2A to match the the 20 new brushless motors or the 100 new ARF electrics, 1/4 scale or 3D machines that come out every month.
Speaking of noise rules. Our club has a rule that anything .061 and under does not require a muffler. How's that for supporting 1/2A?
What you propose as being the reason in your second paragraph is exactly what I was referring to when I said the chicken and the egg. No product, so no demand - no demand, so no product.
You're right, marketing isn't about selling someone what they want, it's about convincing them what you're selling is what they need. So, it's logical to try to sell them what can bring the highest profit with the lowest outlay of capital and labour.
I'm hopeful that Norvel will come back, but I have no delusions that we will see any growth in 1/2A to match the the 20 new brushless motors or the 100 new ARF electrics, 1/4 scale or 3D machines that come out every month.
Speaking of noise rules. Our club has a rule that anything .061 and under does not require a muffler. How's that for supporting 1/2A?
03-18-2007 | 06:15 PM
#29
Senior Member
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RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: fireman7875
Speaking of the chicken and the egg...
Which came first, the demand for electric models due to noise restrictions or the noise restrictions themselves?
Which came first, the marketing of more electric models or the desire for more electric model marketing?
I'm a truck guy, so I'll use this example. When Ford introduced the radically different body style of the 1997 F150, I HATED it. I was used to and attached to the traditional, squared off body style that had been around for years. After a couple more years, though, I grew to like the new body style. Why? What changed my mind? Essentially, there wasn't anything else available. If I wanted a new F150 I would have to accept the new style. The same can be applied to models. If the manufacturers flood the market with new electric products and market them in the correct way...clean and quiet...they convince the consumer that electric airplanes are the greatest thing since the invention of sex. We all like to think that we form our own opinions and make all our own decisions but in reality so much of what we invest our time and money in is driven by the marketing industry. We like what they tell us to like to some degree. I don't completely buy into the idea that the 1/2A sector has nothing new to offer. What great new horizons are there for small electric planes? I see no greater potential for them than for 1/2A aircraft.
"But not everyone can fly 1/2A models because there is no field nearby without a noise restriction", you say. True, and there are places in the US where you can't smoke in public facilities. Do people quit buying cigarettes because there are fewer places to smoke them? So why is the supply drying up? Did all of us on this forum write to Norvel and Cox saying that we would no longer be buying any more 1/2A engines? The supply went away not the demand...we're still pining for the return of Norvel to the market ( I'm still optimistic). I agree, there is less demand than there was in the past. But I propose that it may not be the sole reason for the decrease in engines and the increase in electrics. Isn't it possible that these companies have seen greater profit potential in other lines, such as ready to fly electric airplanes. Rather than expanding their product line and trying to serve two masters, the choose the easiest and most profitable route: shut down the 1/2A production and start selling what they know will make money.
Sorry for the rant; I know it doesn't solve the problem we face as 1/2A enthusiasts. I am just tired of trying to resign myself to the idea that there aren't enough of us to support the business. I can't help but think that we are believing too much of what the industry is telling us. Would the hippies of the 60's have stood for this kind of socialist dictation?
BRING BACK OUR ENGINES!!! ...anyone else feel like having a peaceful demonstration right now?
Brian
Speaking of the chicken and the egg...
Which came first, the demand for electric models due to noise restrictions or the noise restrictions themselves?
Which came first, the marketing of more electric models or the desire for more electric model marketing?
I'm a truck guy, so I'll use this example. When Ford introduced the radically different body style of the 1997 F150, I HATED it. I was used to and attached to the traditional, squared off body style that had been around for years. After a couple more years, though, I grew to like the new body style. Why? What changed my mind? Essentially, there wasn't anything else available. If I wanted a new F150 I would have to accept the new style. The same can be applied to models. If the manufacturers flood the market with new electric products and market them in the correct way...clean and quiet...they convince the consumer that electric airplanes are the greatest thing since the invention of sex. We all like to think that we form our own opinions and make all our own decisions but in reality so much of what we invest our time and money in is driven by the marketing industry. We like what they tell us to like to some degree. I don't completely buy into the idea that the 1/2A sector has nothing new to offer. What great new horizons are there for small electric planes? I see no greater potential for them than for 1/2A aircraft.
"But not everyone can fly 1/2A models because there is no field nearby without a noise restriction", you say. True, and there are places in the US where you can't smoke in public facilities. Do people quit buying cigarettes because there are fewer places to smoke them? So why is the supply drying up? Did all of us on this forum write to Norvel and Cox saying that we would no longer be buying any more 1/2A engines? The supply went away not the demand...we're still pining for the return of Norvel to the market ( I'm still optimistic). I agree, there is less demand than there was in the past. But I propose that it may not be the sole reason for the decrease in engines and the increase in electrics. Isn't it possible that these companies have seen greater profit potential in other lines, such as ready to fly electric airplanes. Rather than expanding their product line and trying to serve two masters, the choose the easiest and most profitable route: shut down the 1/2A production and start selling what they know will make money.
Sorry for the rant; I know it doesn't solve the problem we face as 1/2A enthusiasts. I am just tired of trying to resign myself to the idea that there aren't enough of us to support the business. I can't help but think that we are believing too much of what the industry is telling us. Would the hippies of the 60's have stood for this kind of socialist dictation?
BRING BACK OUR ENGINES!!! ...anyone else feel like having a peaceful demonstration right now?
Brian
03-19-2007 | 11:13 AM
#30
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
It remains to be seen IF the DX6 IS for 1/2A or just electric park flyers like the manufacturer claims. They don't even state WHAT the range is........[&:] I picked one up last week and will try it out in a racer.
We're the WRONG guys here to debate whether or not 1/2A glow is interesting enough to get column inches in a monthly magazine. The guys who make their livings selling ad space and producing a product that sells [instead of getting returned from the news stands] are the ones to take up the argument with. Look what happened to RCM, they became uninteresting to enough readers who switched to RC FLYER that they had to close the doors. Do a little bit of market research and look at the 1/2A engine suppliers who have now moved on to doing stuff that pays the bills. The next area to suffer will be the availability of all the other stuff, like tanks, engine mounts and props. Places like RCU is where the interest will be kept alive.
It remains to be seen IF the DX6 IS for 1/2A or just electric park flyers like the manufacturer claims. They don't even state WHAT the range is........[&:] I picked one up last week and will try it out in a racer.
We're the WRONG guys here to debate whether or not 1/2A glow is interesting enough to get column inches in a monthly magazine. The guys who make their livings selling ad space and producing a product that sells [instead of getting returned from the news stands] are the ones to take up the argument with. Look what happened to RCM, they became uninteresting to enough readers who switched to RC FLYER that they had to close the doors. Do a little bit of market research and look at the 1/2A engine suppliers who have now moved on to doing stuff that pays the bills. The next area to suffer will be the availability of all the other stuff, like tanks, engine mounts and props. Places like RCU is where the interest will be kept alive.
It's true about RCU - here you can have a problem in your mind, post it, and a bunch of people who have direct experience with it jump in. Or if you want to rave about your latest 1/2A project, people actually listen or at least pretend they care, which is just as good.
MJD
03-19-2007 | 11:21 AM
#31
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From: Just a little south of Raleigh,
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RE: Something Appears to be Missing
MJD,
Since you are the one who brought it up and not me, I can second your suggestion that the British model magazines are more likely to answer the needs of the "tender readers" of this forum - again with the exception of Flying Models". There really is more out there than ARFs and electrics - or as a distinguished member of the CC who has difficulty spelling "electrics" would say , lekkys.
Since you are the one who brought it up and not me, I can second your suggestion that the British model magazines are more likely to answer the needs of the "tender readers" of this forum - again with the exception of Flying Models". There really is more out there than ARFs and electrics - or as a distinguished member of the CC who has difficulty spelling "electrics" would say , lekkys.
03-19-2007 | 01:59 PM
#32
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RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: Raymond LeFlyr
MJD,
Since you are the one who brought it up and not me, I can second your suggestion that the British model magazines are more likely to answer the needs of the "tender readers" of this forum - again with the exception of Flying Models". There really is more out there than ARFs and electrics - or as a distinguished member of the CC who has difficulty spelling "electrics" would say , lekkys.
MJD,
Since you are the one who brought it up and not me, I can second your suggestion that the British model magazines are more likely to answer the needs of the "tender readers" of this forum - again with the exception of Flying Models". There really is more out there than ARFs and electrics - or as a distinguished member of the CC who has difficulty spelling "electrics" would say , lekkys.
03-19-2007 | 04:16 PM
#33
Senior Member
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RE: Something Appears to be Missing
I wish everyone here could get their hands on a copy of Stunt News to see what an outstanding model plane mag should look like. Too bad they are 100% control line, but it is fitting that a bunch of the greatest modelers would get together and create one of the greatest magazines.
RC REPORT is an interesting little rag, I look at it once or twice a year. They don't pull too many punches with product reviews. Last time I checked, they were still old school RC.
Too bad Dirty Dan Rutherford doesn't take over the 1/2A column......he's still stuck in his C/L Stunt "phase". This guy wrote some of the best columns model related that ever saw print.
RC REPORT is an interesting little rag, I look at it once or twice a year. They don't pull too many punches with product reviews. Last time I checked, they were still old school RC.
Too bad Dirty Dan Rutherford doesn't take over the 1/2A column......he's still stuck in his C/L Stunt "phase". This guy wrote some of the best columns model related that ever saw print.
03-29-2007 | 10:19 AM
#34
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From: BARNWELL,
SC
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
Pat Tritle is the new SMALL Talk columnist. I've had the pleasure of flying with him and enjoyed his fellowship at the Little Rock SMALL for quite a few years. He'll do a great job!
03-29-2007 | 08:49 PM
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TN
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: hfenn
Pat Tritle is the new SMALL Talk columnist. I've had the pleasure of flying with him and enjoyed his fellowship at the Little Rock SMALL for quite a few years. He'll do a great job!
Pat Tritle is the new SMALL Talk columnist. I've had the pleasure of flying with him and enjoyed his fellowship at the Little Rock SMALL for quite a few years. He'll do a great job!
He does, however, smoke stinky cigars so he might be OK.
03-29-2007 | 10:25 PM
#38
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From: BARNWELL,
SC
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: Raymond LeFlyr
I could, but I ain't gonna.
[/quote]
You did; you just didn't publish it
03-29-2007 | 10:28 PM
#39
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From: BARNWELL,
SC
RE: Something Appears to be Missing
ORIGINAL: DICKEYBIRD
Yabbut he ain't had no castor stains on his britches in years. He does, however, smoke stinky cigars so he might be OK.
ORIGINAL: hfenn
Pat Tritle is the new SMALL Talk columnist. I've had the pleasure of flying with him and enjoyed his fellowship at the Little Rock SMALL for quite a few years. He'll do a great job!
Pat Tritle is the new SMALL Talk columnist. I've had the pleasure of flying with him and enjoyed his fellowship at the Little Rock SMALL for quite a few years. He'll do a great job!
He does, however, smoke stinky cigars so he might be OK.
03-31-2007 | 05:17 PM
#41
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From: Just a little south of Raleigh,
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RE: Something Appears to be Missing
Wel, well, well. Good news (I think you'll agree). The May 2007 Flying Models arrived yesterday and it does have Mr. Trittle's Small Talk column as promised. I thought it was pretty good, very good even. Nope it wasn't ALL about IC power. Nope it wasn't All about electrics. But it WAS all about small models. That's enough to make me happy.
The rest of the magazine was absolutely why I think FM is the best American magazine out there. Ok, there was yet another cardboard "scale" model from the same designer (who must own a lot of stock in U.S. Cardboard LLC). But the rest of it was right on; a Pat Trittle OT electric Cabin Playboy, "indoor slope gliders" (yep, would I lie?), neat fuselage construction techniques for small models, and a flat-plate electric wing. That was ALL small stuff. Plus Larry Driskill (and Phil Cartier) always have something interesting to say about CL combat.
So, I'm thinking that the Carstens/Fanelli product continues to support us little people and have earned our appreciation and thanks (if not our subscriptions).
End of sermon. Please turn to hymn # 42.
The rest of the magazine was absolutely why I think FM is the best American magazine out there. Ok, there was yet another cardboard "scale" model from the same designer (who must own a lot of stock in U.S. Cardboard LLC). But the rest of it was right on; a Pat Trittle OT electric Cabin Playboy, "indoor slope gliders" (yep, would I lie?), neat fuselage construction techniques for small models, and a flat-plate electric wing. That was ALL small stuff. Plus Larry Driskill (and Phil Cartier) always have something interesting to say about CL combat.
So, I'm thinking that the Carstens/Fanelli product continues to support us little people and have earned our appreciation and thanks (if not our subscriptions).
End of sermon. Please turn to hymn # 42.
