Bipe Flyer

Yes. It's nothing more than a box with holes drilled in it, the vacuum cleaner and the oven. I staple the plastic, high impact polystyrene in this case, to a plywood frame and place it in the oven at 350°F until the plastic sags a little. I then turn on the vacuum and place the plastic over the carved plug.

Bipe Flyer

Wheel pants.

LoneRanger

My Feedback: (1)

could we please see a pic of your vacumed oven you are talking baout, diagrams on top of the pics would be nice too


L.R.

Bipe Flyer

It's just our kitchen oven.

Here's a picture showing the setup. It's one of the easiest tools you can make.

I get my plastic from Laird Plastics. They have locations all over North America.
http://www.lairdplastics.com/

Bipe Flyer

I already have the plans partially done. With a 25" wingspan it will be less than 21½" long from the tip of the spinner to the tip of the tail and only 17¼" from the prop to elevator. I decided to build the Ultimate first because with the extra length the ground handling will be better.

MR Flyer57

Hello Bipe Flyer,
Just looked at the contest site and was really interested in the plastic forming your doing.

What material are you using and what does your vacuum look like. Also what are your plugs covered with and do you use a release agent?

Lots of great ideas and the people who know how to use them here. Any Info about this stuff or ideas from anybody on this thread is welcome.

Thanks for all the info so far, this makes this hobby really come alive.
Thanks,
Marshall

MR Flyer57

Sorry I didn't see the other posts before sending the last post.
I looked at the Lairdplastics site you put in your post, and there are a lot of products, which do you use? What do you use for clear canopies that you want to form? Do you use any different thicknesses of plastic?
What glue did you use to put the two halves together and do you reinforce the joint with anything?
Are your plugs covered with anything and is there any tricks to getting them smooth and even. If I tried to make wheel pants I don't know if any two would be the same size!!
I haven't done any of the plastic molding before so if some of these questions are lame please excuse the newbie view.

I am seeing so much new stuff. After being in this hobby for 15 years and getting tired of the same old stuff this is a breath of fresh air.
I have heard about most of this stuff but you make it look possible.

Between you and Dickybird I have a lot of ideas that just might be possible now!!

I know it is a lot of trouble and you most likely don't have the time right now because your getting the bipe done for the contest, but if you can expand on this subject in the future it would be most helpful, any diagrams and tips would be a real bonus and most helpful.

Thanks again,
Marshall

Bipe Flyer

Look 2 posts up in this thread to see the vacuum forming set-up. The vacuum istelf is a standart household Electrolux. I use HIPS (High Impact Poly Styrene) or PETG. PETG is like Lexan or Plexiglass. Lexan is the strongest of the three, PETG is the most scratch resistant and is what is used for canopies in most kits. I use HIPS instead of ABS because it is less prone to cracking and shattering.

Bipe Flyer

Another cowl pic.

Bipe Flyer

I use 1/16 or 1/32 thick plastic.

The way I made the plugs for the Ultimate's cowl was to make a single plug and then cut it in half. That way the 2 halves will match.

I use CA or rubberized CA. For wheel pants I just edge glue them, but for larger parts I cut a strip of plastic about ½" wide and glue it in to "tape" the inside of the joint.

I carve my plugs out of wood. The wood can be balsa, pine or whatever. No matter how well you sand the plug the vacuum formed piece wont come out clear. It will show every imperfection including the wood grain. Now here's the trick. Vacuum form a piece of plastic over the plug and glue it to the plug. Sand the plastic until you have gotten rid of all of the imperfections. Start with 200 grit and work down to 600 or 800. Now form a piece of plastic over the whole thing and you will have a perfect part.

Here's a pic showing a plug and canopy. You can see that underneath the plastic, the balsa plug is far from perfect, but with the imperfections sanded out of the plastic the resulting canopy is nice and clear.

MR Flyer57

Thanks for the tips, and taking the time to reply so quickly
Marshall

av8rsodt

My Feedback: (23)

Bipe Flyer -

Thanks for posting all the details about how you vacuum form.

I have been keeping my eye open on how to make one for home as well as learn . I have pulled some plastic over a mold after heating in the oven but I am anxious to do this out.

Av8rsodt

prole

My Feedback: (3)

Andrew-

I seem to remember you saying a little while back that you didn't think that you would have time to "THROW TOGETHER" a plane for the design contest.

Well, if that it what you can do when you don't have to time to really go all out... I mean come on man, you have hand made vacuum formed parts for this.... that's pretty serious.

You guys, you kill me sometimes...

this has really been a lot of fun, and I feel like I have learned so much. Yesterday I had the french curve out and I was tracing the 3/32" balsa elevator wing tips on my plans to make templates to cut the real ones I had an epiphany...

... I, all of a sudden, realized that I don't ever HAVE to buy another kit, if I don't have to money for some really awesome old kit, or I see somthing that only has the plans, I CAN MAKE IT!!!, I don't have to buy a kit for the directions. I just felt like a whole new world was opened up to me, a world of plans and tracing paper and sheet balsa, not hardware packs and die-crushed balsa parts.

Not that I'm dogging kits, I have about a dozen waiting for me right at this moment, BUT... I also have a really nice plan and some expertly cut wing cores for a BlackFlight Firefly that now I really know that I can build.


thanks guys, and thanks for all of your help Andrew, your plane looks amazing, but I never expected anything less..


the prole

LoneRanger

My Feedback: (1)

Prole,

Ever thought about Motivtional speaking?


cheers~ :stupid:



L.R.

Bipe Flyer

Prole,

I'm basically lazy and I like gadgets, so I make tools to cut down on a lot of work.

Howard Sullivan has a great web site with lots of tips and building ideas.
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/

That's where I found the plans for my wing jig...
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/Con.../WJConstr.html

...and my fuselage jig.
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/Con.../FJConstr.html


Do you know why I quit building kits? Too much reading! I honestly believe I can cut and glue, working from a plan alone, faster than I can interpret a kits instructions.

The first couple of planes I built were kits and I learned a lot from them, but when I started scratch building things became a lot more fun. Now the sky's the limit.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Prole, hahaha I was just thinkingt the exact same thing,, I wont have time to throw together a plane,,,,but he can vacumn form make plugs for parts and the dang thing will probably end up a museum quality plane that I'd be too scared to fly but, yeah I know I can build too, and if I do crash I wont have near as much $$in the plane....Ive got 4 park flyers that I thought arent that much $ but at like $45 a piece, and 3 of them trashed, 1 I can fix and 1 I already have lol.....that adds up, still love to get a couple of the foamies and fuel proof them and put in a norvel, I ask SRA foamflyer about it and he gave me some good advice but I'd welcome other comments,, still hopin my design will fly,,,OH!!! I did crank up the tee dee .049 today ,, after like 7 years.. and it works!!.......Rog

MR Flyer57

Hey Prole,
I was having some of the same thoughts about Bipe Flyers little throw-together creation.

I mean, how many light years are the rest of you ahead of me?

But I have been following his work and scouring his web site and I have come to a scary conclusion. This is a throw-togather plane for this guy!!
He makes it look so easy that I also think I will be able to build anything I can think of.

The amount of talent that this little impromptu contest has brought out is just amazing. The diversity and wealth of seasoned knowledge here never seems to have an end.

I have build a lot of stuff and was getting just a little bored. My club considered me the little plane, fountain of knowledge, but you guys have shaken my little world with the amount of hands on knowledge you have used.

I don't mean you read or heard it somewhere, you guys use it and show it. You guys are at the level that you need to be writing the books on this stuff.

From engine design (years of r and d here) to fiberglassing to molding your own parts. I have learned so much more here because it is applied and not just something I have read about.

I cannot imagine the amount of trial and error I have bypassed just for a lousy $10. It is like building college, and I have to mirror the idea that I now think that anything is possible.

It is very hard to put into words but this small group has put the fun back into the hobby and for that I thank all of you!!

Marshall

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

thanks for the info on vacuforming! I will have to build a machine someday! I'm basically a low tech balsa hacker, but I am advancing! had a lot of bad abs experiences, and stayed away from most other mediums (except foam wings) besides balsa. mostly a technique issue, as I feel I can vacuform after seeing how it is done by an experienced guy! I agree about scratch building; a lot of kits are overly complex by my "standards"; of course, I think carving the h.o.b. block cowlings "simpler" than gluing a whole bunch of laser cut thingies together!

The ultimate is going to be a sharp plane! By the way, I flew my mod. ace one today, was a great day to fly. it really hums w/ that norvel 25 on it! you are really gonna have fun when you get yours going!

Bipe Flyer

The wheel pants.

MR Flyer57

Hey Bipe Flyer,

Did you build a full block for the pants and then cut it in half and form the plastic around them as you did the cowl?

Just picking your brain until it festers

:sunsmiley MR Flyer57

Bipe Flyer

Nope, I just made a plug for 1/2 a pant and then vacuum formed around it. I then used the vacuum formed piece to make 4 plaster of paris plugs so that I could form 2 pairs at once. Pretty lazy... er I mean smart eh?

MR Flyer57

Sure,, Holden back the Plaster tricks... Unscrupulous!!!

I would like to replace a canopy because it is cracked and broken. My idea is to tape it back together and fill it with plaster, then use it as a plug.
Have you tried this, or might you have a better idea?
Thanks again,

MR Flyer57

Bipe Flyer

Yes, I've tried that and it works fine. Just follow the directions on the package. I like to attach a wooden base to my plugs with carpet tape. It leaves a nice sharp line to mark the bottom of the formed piece. Go back in this thread and look at the cowl plugs to see what I mean.

awood12345

Wow, Cool a mini Ultimate! This is the first time I have checked out this forum and I am shure that I will be back . Will there be free plans for the ultimate? I would love a mini acrobatic plane.

Alan

Bipe Flyer

I have to see if it will fly first.
If it flies well I'll sell plans wing cores, cowl, canopy and wheel pants.