combatpigg

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Welcome to the club, Slim. Murphys' Law at work.
This is why they draw a big X in marking pen, then have you initial the foot that needs to be amputated.

Andrew

Not a problem -- that's what your Xacto knife and extra sheet of wood from the hobby shop is for. Just take your time, carefully cut the formers out of the airframe (protect the airframe, not the formers), cut yourself duplicates and glue in the new copies.

We've all done it. I mis-measured this week and ended up with a fuselage side that was off an 1/8" -- I just used it to make several smaller parts. I've resigned myself to the fact that I will make dumba** mistakes. I just try to keep them to a minimum.

BuzzBomber

My Feedback: (4)

Hey speak for yourself, Andrew!!! I've NEVER glued a semi-symmetrical wing together with one half upside-down. Oh, wait--I wasn't supposed to say that. [:@]

Don't even ask how that's possible......you see, first you have to build two left wings...[:'(]

NorfolkSouthern

Easy solution: Buy another kit and build two RIGHT wings !

NorfolkSouthern

slim_pkns

OK. After an near perfect day to fly at the field and all the well wishes, I've stopped crying and whining about my mistake. I didn't know I was going to get so attached to this little box o' sticks. I had already thought a lot about cutting away the bad formers and cutting new ones but I'm tired of messing with those damn notches! I wanted to move on and that's probably why I screwed up in the first place.

Note to self: Build slow. Take your time. Measure twice, cut once. Patience, patience, patience.

DOH!!!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Keep at it, Slim! You've reminded me that building with Titebond goes surprisingly fast. A great tool for this type of building is a razor saw. Not the little Xacto job, there is one with about a 2"x8" blade that is great for balsa surgery.

buzzard bait

The notches are really unimportant except in the corners and for the crutches. Many free flight scale builders don't use notches for stringers. They just lay them over the formers and glue them to the surfaces. Jim

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Good point, BB. The formers end up making ugly lines wherever they meet the covering between the stringers. Alot of modelers will scoop this area out, so it doesn't show through the covering.

Yuu

Yea... what Combatpig said.. little "razor Saw" they have them at the hobby shop...in the model train section. 'Trainers' use them for cutting brass rails for the little trains... think of how long they last just cutting balsa and glue.....

Half-A-Hec

Slm_Pkns,

Here is what I do when I need to cut notches in formers or ribs. I lay the stringer or spar on the rib or former and make a mark on the rib or former on eiach side of the spar or stringer. A fine tip ball point pen wors well. You will end end up with two marks on your part. I use dremel with a cut off wheel and cut my notch by centering the wheel between the marks. Have a scrap piece of spar or stringer handy to test the fit.

Hec

slim_pkns

It was a beautiful weekend here. I had a couple of days flying my Sig Hog Bipe and it got me out of my doom and gloom mood about the Guillow's Piper Super Cub! We had a pretty good crosswind today so I really had to concentrate and the distraction did me good. Hope everyone else had some time to fly this weekend.

I made a little progress this evening and finished cutting away and sanding the formers that I screwed up. Now to cut two new B2 and B3 halves and I can try fitting them back in. It wasn't too hard to get them out after all. Another good reason to use JUST enough white glue to hold the parts together. I was able to take a fresh single sided razor blade and gently push it between the two former halves at the top in the center of the fuselage. It split them at the glue seam fairly easily. I could probably even use a couple of them but I'm electing to cut all new ones. Once I had them off the bottom and side keel (these front ones don't reach the top keel as seen in the pics of the plan at the beginning of this thread), I lightly sanded the remaining glue away. Looks good as new!

Thanks for the encouragement all!!! I should be ready to glue the new fuselage former halves on in a day or two and be back on track.

slim_pkns

I found a way to edit that last post and replace the image. Sorry again for any pain and suffering that caused. All should be well again.

slim_pkns

Well, I've had LOTS of practice cutting new fuselage former halves so cutting two new B2 and two new B3 didn't take me long. I was pretty happy with the results. I used the same method as before. I made a copy of the section of the plan with the parts I needed, cut them out from the copy, and glued them to a piece of new balsa sheet with the 3M/Scotch restickable glue stick. Works great! I glued the last formers back in place and even got the right side keel glued in as well. Not perfect but not too shabby. It was hell getting them glued back in since I can't pin the keel to the plan any more. I tried to take my time and I think the results are good enough to fly.

slim_pkns

HALLELUJAH!!! The weekend is here!

Since fixing up my mistakes early last week, I took a little time to off to watch CSI reruns, clean up my building area, give the girlfriend a little attention (she's been complaining), and study the plans & directions for next steps. The next stage is to add the 1/16" square stringers to the fuselage formers being careful not to glue any in that are explicitly stated on the plans to be added after parts H (cabin sides) and J (landing gear struts) are in place. You also want to be sure to glue the stringers in alternating from left side to right side and top to bottom so that you create equal tension.

I'm having a hard time with this part. I may be thinking too much about it but there aren't too many details provided. First, the stringers are not all the same size but the instructions and the plans don't mention any other size than 1/16" square. They really aren't even square (see pic). Second, I'm not sure if a few that appear to be a single piece glued in the former notches shouldn't be cut and glued in separately. For example, the stringer that runs just above the side keel runs from B5 all the way to the tip of the fuselage tail. Should this stringer be glued in as a single piece bending to create a curve or should I cut it at the last former (B8) and glue in a straight piece from B8 to the tip? I'm guessing here but since the keel already has a curve provided, I should just glue them in with a bend creating as smooth curve and as little tension as possible.

Any experiences to share? Help and suggestions appreciated!

peteapilot

HOW DOIN DO YOU BUILD MANY GUILLOWS PLANES.LOOKING TO TALK ABOUT CONVERTING A SOPWITH TO ELECT.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Slim, I've thought about this step after doing a few planes. If the fuselage gets pulled out of whack, then the firewall gets cockeyed. If the fuselage is pinned face down on the building board,[firewall face down] you can use a square to check the keels.....they should be at 90 degrees to the table. If you can, devise a way to keep the aft end of the fuselage stationary. Now you are free to lay in the longerons. I would not use balsa longerons if they are 1/16"x1/16", only spruce if this plane is going to be flown in the same world I live in.

slim_pkns

Thanks for the info combatpigg. I've been away on a business trip so I don't have any progress to show for this past week but I've been dwelling on this problem for too long now. I've asked a few others I know and my dad who recently built a Guillow's 800 series Spirit of St. Louis and most said that you should be able to look at the picture to see what fuselage former to glue the strips to. On my dad's build, the stringers were glued side by side when one stopped and the next started. The former notch was wide enough to accommodate two side by side. I have some pictures I'll post later from his build to give an example. The pictures from my kit don't really show any detail that helps me. I'm leaning towards leaving them as long as possible to create a nice curve along the fuselage from the tail forward but I have noticed that the former notches seem to be much wider than necessary. I may have done it I guess.

Anybody else have anything to add?

frednjess

I guess this forum's gone a bit stagnant. Well, I finished the Guillows Cessna 170 #302. Stock build, covered with window plastic film, rudder and elevator, 4.4 oz. ready to fly. Ok first flight. It needed some more dihedral (knew I forgot something), beautiful level flight, but the turns were hair raising. She'll be on flight #2 this Sunday at the Unidome in Cedar Falls if anyone cares to come out and see her fly.

somegeek

My Feedback: (2)

Good tip!

somgeeek

Yuu

I've been reading up on these stick built things too. A very interesting article in Flying Models four or five months ago shows four ways to build a straight fuse...one is to make a 3/4" x 3/4" x 12" stick...perfectally straight one side. Glue 1/8" sq sticks to that base just behind the former location, .... err...somehow the formers are held straight by the 3/4" stick...then the stringers are added one on one side, then the other on the other side, etc. I can't remember....but three methods were simular. One method for a round fuse was to make a foam fuse and add the stringers, then disolve the foam. A very interesting article. Another thing I found was pensacolafreeflight.org with tons of plans and tips...see the "articles" portion. One guy sands the formers hollow on the edge so the tissue doesn't stick, and another guy just puts a tiny bit of bee's wax on the former edge so the tissue won't stick. Fly tie guys substitute that wax toilet ring [the one under the toilet that seals the porclin toilet to the cast iron pipe...99 cents at the hardware store] for the wax used to wax the thread....same stuff, and lasts for YEARS ! Mine is twenty years old in a glass jar.....

slim_pkns

Been a long time since I posted to this thread but I wanted to let everyone who cares know that I bought a house a few months ago and am just now getting settled in. I went out and bought a new building table and setup my "building room" (YES, I'm single and therefore get to dedicate a WHOLE room in my house to building!!!) so I'm ready to get back to this project!

I'm going to make another pot of coffee and figure out where I left off this afternoon. Hope to have some progress to post later today!

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Good to see you back, just don't get one of those home accessories called a GF or W.I.F.E, they tend to require lots of maintainence. Taking away from valuable hobby time, but since you have a house that's your other hobby too, seems like everything needs to be redone or fixed.

slim_pkns

Thanks for the advice planebuilder66... I know what you mean! All hobby and no "play" makes slim_pkns a lonely boy... but no hobby makes him CRAZY!

Took an hour or so to get back to where I left off...

Still struggling with best practices for fuselage stringers. I just decided to jump in and get wet. Some I can see should be a single length of balsa but it still looks vague about some of the others. I'm not sure if it matters if I chop them up and glue in pieces instead of a single long piece. I guess I'll find out soon enough!

build light

Very true CP and I got a surprize myself recently when I finally got one of the Sterling Citabria Kits. It has some of the formers already scooped out nfrom the factory and even shown on the plans!
I am not sure how many Mfg.s have done this but it is the first one I have run across myself. Here is a great example to see attached.

Quote by slim_pkns:
" Still struggling with best practices for fuselage stringers. I just decided to jump in and get wet. Some I can see should be a single length of balsa but it still looks vague about some of the others. I'm not sure if it matters if I chop them up and glue in pieces instead of a single long piece. I guess I'll find out soon enough!"

Most are intended to be lain in one piece. Troublesome areas can be delt with a couple of ways where it seems the balsa seems too stiff or the bend seems too sharp.
One is the steam the strip or soak it in water till it is soft.
A slightly different way is to make a razor saw cut partway through the strip where the inside of the bend will take place which makes bending lots easier.

Lastly, you could buy some new stringer material that is simply less stiff than the material on hand.

Robert

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Man, this plane's taking longer to build than a Mexican highway!