Dan Vincent

I think brand loyalty would make the class more interesting and not limit it to one engine. All you need is a rule that says a plain-bearing engine with a displacement of no more than .1099. The best engine may surface but flying ability and model finish can make a big difference.

You could also say you want engines to be equipped with a throttle but that's the way QM starte out and racers eventuallly wanted no carb to get more performance. Gloheads don't work well with carbs.

If you only pick one engine, what happens if the manufacturer decides to stop production?

Another thing is wing area. QM had a minimum of 300 sq in and 1/2A had 200. I would think somewhere between 250 - 275 would be about right for a .10. I'd lean towards the 275 because engines are heavier now with mufflers. I believe QM also had a 24 Oz minimum weight.

Then there is the tapered wing thickness vs the straight. QM started with a go-no go gauge on a straight wing and then evolved into tapered, again, because the racers wanted maximum performance.

I've always thought a Formula-10 class would make sense because engines of that size have always been popular since the Atom and Arden .099 engines and they have never had a class just for them.

DeviousDave

The ASP .12 is alleged to be a hot little thang... Might be a good choice. Then there's the MVVS .12 and the.. and the...

This could be fun!

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

A comment like that doesn't make sense in this crowd. The event in question is a perversion of the reedie race where the only rule is a Cox .049 reedie motor. I think the manufacturer has ceased production on that one a while ago. LOL.
Obviously you haven't observed the flying skills of these guys either[X(]

The run and assemble rule would require a pinch runner for Raymond...

Lemme know what engine to buy.

Dan Vincent

Vicman,

Cox made zillions of reed valve .049 engines but an OS .10 FP is a little harder to find. I collect .09 - .10 engines and only have a few OS FS .10 engines and maybe 1 or 2 FPs.

On the other hand I have a plastic jug full of old Cox reed valve engines.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

I say we either choose OS plain-bearing .10's or OS plain-bearing .15's.

If we go with .10's the planes are going to weigh about the same as .15 powered planes, but they'll fly a little slower.

So, do we want this to be a "slower" event? If so, that's fine with me.

38" span; 7" chord = 266 sq."

40" span; 7.5" chord = 300 sq."

David

RocketRob

My Feedback: (1)

Gotta agree with Dan.
It is nice to have options!
something about the "Spice of Life" - yeah doesn't work on my wife either.

Mr67Stang

Plain-bearing?? or bushinged? I am not aware of an OS .10 size engine in production now that has bearings?

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, I mean bushing![sm=bananahead.gif]

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

I vote .15's - I think the price is about the same and has a little more power - a lot of OS fp's, la's, hp's etc. all over the place right now and most are in the 35.00 to 50.00 price range. I think plain bearing ( bushing ) would be fine to keep the prices and racing engines out ( although - racing engines would be fun ). There are a lot of ARF electric's out there that will fit the .15's that cost less then a kit and covering will cost and you will not have the pain when you crash one of your home built's. Check out the sales at Hobby People and the like - many times 50.00 will get you a nice racer - all you have to do is add ply on the nose and remove the battery box and add the tank - easy. Think about it.
Dale

hkbii

Howdie gents, Raindave myzip with the speed wing is 34 1/2" x 7" = 240 sq.in . with the os 0.10 and auw of 25oz it has lots of lift. and is fast. the sport wing is 37x7 =259sq. this will carry a 0.15 at about 28-30oz with no problem. zip with 0s .10 hkbii

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I'm up for either .10 or .15 , and I'm not trying to pressure anything, this could take quite a bit of talk to settle, I know CP always says that a .15 is $5 more and has %50 more power,, but really we're talking a 1/2a plane with a .10 engine , I didnt expect too many of you would join in,, really like maybe 5 or 6 guys...thats why I said same plane, same engine... but if you guys wanna just get a .10 or .15 of anything and whatever plane you want...then I guess we can do that.....hkbii, thats a nice lookin plane,,RocketRob, the point is to NOT have an option same as the reedie race .........but its not necessarily for a race, it can be for a series of events,,I want it to be able to take off from grass hence the over powered small plane maybe with bigger than normal wheels...wheels,battery,fuel,prop, these are all variables......Rog

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Roger,

As usual, when something starts out simple, it ends up being quite complicated. I think your original idea of using an OS .10 (whatever flavor) and David's Sureshark enlarged 10% or so is just the simple ticket we need. I don't think it's possible for even 10 guys to all want to go with the same ideas/engine/planes all at the same time.....so... as part of the loyal Carolina Crew... I go with the original ideas as stated above. I really like the idea of a somewhat overpowered airplane with landing gear taking off for a race. I'm certainly not against overpowered (anybody remember the Black Widow powered Littlest Stik??? Not that I'm not flexible, I really am... but..there are plenty of engines and plenty of balsa and this doesn't have to be done by tomorrow.....just let me know how much and where to send the money for the kit....next thing you know there will be someone demanding no retracts, tuned pipes or nitrous.... let's just have fun with this....way to go Roger!!!!

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft

BSARGE

Ditto what he said....

-Bill

SGC

I agree too, keep it simple, a 40" SS and a plain brg .10ci engine.
does it have to be an OS ? what about a Thunder Tiger GP10? Skaliwag has these in stock. I beleive we 1/2A guys should support each other too.
Stewart

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

I'm going electric and wompin all ya'all![>:]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I don't think any event powered with an OS .10 could be called racing. Base it on the .15. I'll bet way more of you guys already have plain bearing .15s.

Dan Vincent

CP,

Racing is racing.

If you and someone else have cars or motorcycles and a section of twisty road, you're gonna race sooner or later.

I used to compete in sports car gymkhanas in the early '60's and started out with Porsches. People would say "Sure, you win because you drive a Porsche."

That's when my brother and I decided to use decambered VW Bugs instead of the Porsches.

I can tell you it was very satisfying to set "Fastest Time of the Day" with a VW against all the various brands of sports cars that used to compete.

Like I said, Racing is Racing and guys are just wired to compete with each other even if it's riding lawnmowers. Yes, they do race lawnmowers.

When it comes to model engines, I can guarantee you that there are tuners out there who could make an OS .10 honk. I remember the FF guys over in Palm Bay, FL getting some great performance out ot the ST X11 by yanking the carb and going with straight venturi and who knows what else.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Not steppin on you Mr. V. but you are attempting to explain racing to a bunch of guys in the Carolinas. We got racin down pat around here. We also got tweakin down pretty good too.
Seeing as how I have a dog in this fight (and trophies from past CC events[>:]) and I will need to buy a motor, my vote is .15 size. We should also make the prop standard too. Otherwise it's a free for all. I'm down with that too.

Dan Vincent

Well Vicman, let me suggest something else.

If you want to use a .15, why not just use old QM models and engines instead of reinventing the wheel.

There are still many QM .15 engines available but my money would be on the guys using a Nelson.

I thought the thread was started to go with a slightly larger model than Half-A.

A plain bearing .15 would be the way QM started in 1968.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

For those who will need to buy a new engine, .15's make more sense. You'll get more future use out of it than with a .10.

I'm going to go ahead and draw a cut file for a 40" 300 sq." SS and get some short kits made.

We can iron out the exact engine to use in the meantime.

David

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Hold up kids,,,, I envisioned this as an "event" plane with landing gear..so that us small flyers could do more of the things that larger planes do at funflys......we already have a reedy and unlimited race.....so lets recount, maybe the same plane is over the top,, I thought of the simple series (maybe any of them that you prefer) mainly because I'd rather not build a wing ,,and a plain bushed .10 or .15 of any make....Rog

SGC

David.
If you do some 40" SS kits put my name on at least 1 and let me know when there ready to ship,(I may get 2)
Stewart

Andrew

I always thought the original QM class was a great idea -- an acceptable Midget racer look alike with a reasonably priced engine. But, the class evolved and to be competitive, it required a considerable investment in engines -- Dan's comment about the NELSON is an example. Q40, very similar to the now defunct Formula 1, is another class limited to a hardcore group of racers -- excellent flyers with deep pockets. Quickie 500 was developed for those not wanting to invest the dollars needed in Q40, but still wanting to race. But even Q500 has turned into an event where you need to come to the field with $750 to $1000 worth of engines in the truck.

If you guys want to race, pick a plane, class of planes, or a set of measurements for the plane, but fix the acceptable engines, say the Magnum XLS-15, OS 15LA or TT .18 . If you set just a displacement limit, then money buys speed and folks who might want to race eventually drop out because of the expense. Another option is a claiming race -- the winning engine may be purchased for xx dollars. I guess it depends whether you want out and out racing or some good competitive fun flying.

That's ma story and ahm stickin' to it.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Rog.
You started the fray. Grow a set and build a wing. Buy an engine while your at it!

You guys know me...I'll build one and snag a motor while I'm at it if need be.[sm=bananahead.gif]
If I wasn't so busy with the larger racing sizes I would be building a RLF spanker in Unlimited.

See you guys in May!

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe some one here might be willing to cut a few sets of foam wings for the SS. I'll supply the templates. A laser-cut fuselage and foam wings would build pretty fast. If I had a foam cutting table I'd do it, but I don't.

David