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Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

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Old 09-28-2008, 03:01 AM
  #26  
BTerry
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

I always try to put the webs BETWEEN the spars. This way the glue joint is always in tension or compression instead of in shear.
Old 09-28-2008, 03:21 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

that is, unless I also can extend the leading edge sheeting to cover the shear webs. In that case gluing them to the aft side of the spars is ok.
Old 09-28-2008, 08:36 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Tough call.
I would think you get a larger glue contact area at the face?
Old 09-28-2008, 10:29 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

The webbing goes between the "spars" on a steel beam. On a little balsa wing, the forces on the webbing are not pure, there is turning and twisting, vibration, etc......it can't be welded in, either. Gluing to either side of the spars works well enough and is much easier to do than painstakingly piecing wood between the spars.
Sometimes I get asked about how I can build a 1/2A plane fairly fast and the main reason is not allowing myself to get hung up on details that are not needed. The other tip is always look for ways to make each step involved less critical, instead of looking for ways to bog progress down with techniques that contribute nothing to the final product.
Old 09-28-2008, 11:53 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread


ORIGINAL: combatpigg

Gluing to either side of the spars works well enough and is much easier to do than painstakingly piecing wood between the spars.
That's the approach I take (being a lazy builder). I don't like end grain butt joints, especially with thin CA (about all I use), because they suck so much CA and you can end up with a dry joint. Ideally, if the LE is sheeted, the shear web would be on the front of the spars, to tie everything together. However, if the LE is solid, there's no way to add the second LE sheet because the shear web blocks access for glueing - unless you use a slow drying adhesive, which I don't. So, I almost always add the web to the back of the spar and go for a greater contact area - see RocketRob's post. Secondly, you can reduce your spar dimensions because you are effectively adding a 1/16" to the back (or front) of the spar.

I've never had a wing failure in the air due to G-force. I've had flutter and I've had impact damage due to contact with something tougher than the plane (OK, I stuck it). We can't crashproof these planes, so don't over engineer.


Old 09-28-2008, 11:55 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

For gluing the webs to the outside of the spars, the $64 question is whether the wing or the glue joint would break first. This is dependent on so many factors that there isn't a simple "one or the other" answer, and the only way to derive the equations needed to settle this would be to get a lab with a high-speed camera, load devices, transparent covering, etc, all of which would require a several million dollar research grant. But of course it WOULD be fun! I agree with CP that most of our planes are overbuilt. But the question is really "How overbuilt are they?" Personally I'd prefer not to find out, at least not at the field, or with my plane...

-

More work on the fuselage today. After putting cross grained balsa above the wing I had to figure out how to install the 3/8 triangle stock above the wing. The area above the wing is curved vertically and I also want that area to curve gracefully horizontally. A straight piece isn't going to work so I cut a 1/2" slot every 1" in the triangle stock to let it flex, then installed it flexed with the middle flush to the top of the fuse and the ends sticking up slightly. A little carving with the exacto knife and the wing area is done!

Next up is the fuel hatch. I shaved the inside edge of the triangle stock so the fuel tank slips into place, then cut the hatch to length and put it into place. I'm going to glue 1/8" strips along the inside edge of the hatch to give it strength and so it stays straight and doesn't warp. I haven't planked the bottom of the plane so I just flipped it over, traced lines on the bottom of the hatch and glued the strips along the lines. It's taken me 6 planes to figure out that installing the hatch is easier with an unplanked plane!

Now for the engine bay, and the big question here is: "Does the engine fit in the nose and can I put on a spinner ring?" I'm going to carve the nose into an oval shape, so I glue in some extra 1/16" sheeting on the sides and some extra 3/8" triangle stock. The bulk of this wood will be cut away but I don't want to cut through anywhere and have to scab in pieces later. After building everything up I bend the balsa so it fits the spinner ring then try to slide in the engine. It's a tight fit, but it looks like everything's going to make it with just enough room for an allen wrench. I'm not going to glue the spinner ring in yet - I need to lay out the engine area, drill holes for the engine mount, fuel lines and pushrod first while I still have room to maneuver.

Last thing on the table today was to begin laying out the servos & pushrod placement. Since my theoretical balance showed me being tail heavy, I need to know if the servos will need to go behind the trailing edge, or if I can mount them above the wing. I'm missing a lot of fuse planking so I actually laid pieces on the top surface to mimic the final weight distribution. I dropped the engine and fuel tank in place, slid in the stabilizer and pinned in the fin, put the servos above the wing and the battery behind the trailing edge. I put my fingers over the main wing spar and then let go...

Well she's still a little nose heavy but not too bad, and since I've still got pushrods to install I think I'll be ok with the servos in the wing bay. With the fin and stab still in place I layout the pushrod runs and mark where I need supports in the fuse cavity. This is a drudge job for me, and I'm glad when everything's finally aligned. Before putting in the servo rails I lay a 1/16" piece of balsa spacer on the floor. This way I can let the servos sit in place and I know I've got enough clearance after I pull out the spacer. Speaking of clearance, I also put in the aileron servo and dry fit the wing to make sure there's clearance between the aileron pushrods and the empennage controls.

It's been a busy day, but the Pacer .15 is shaping up nicely!

EG
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Old 09-28-2008, 11:13 PM
  #32  
BTerry
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

ORIGINAL: eroc144

For gluing the webs to the outside of the spars, the $64 question is whether the wing or the glue joint would break first. This is dependent on so many factors that there isn't a simple "one or the other" answer, and the only way to derive the equations needed to settle this would be to get a lab with a high-speed camera, load devices, transparent covering, etc, all of which would require a several million dollar research grant. I agree with CP that most of our planes are overbuilt. But the question is really "How overbuilt are they?" Personally I'd prefer not to find out, at least not at the field, or with my plane...
This is absolutely correct on these smaller planes, sorry for taking it off topic. I got stuck thinking of much larger planes.

Your Pacer looks great! I can't wait to see it all finished.
Old 09-30-2008, 07:29 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

A little more progress to report. The siding's glued on and now it's time for the carving / shaping. This is one of my favorite parts of the process - something very zen about it, at least to me. With 3/8" triangle stock at the edges I can really dig deep, and I'm looking to create a smooth, graceful curved fuselage that tapers off at the tail feathers. Out comes the razor plane, and along with the exacto knife and some 220 grit sandpaper, a small pile of balsa shavings starts piling up!

EG
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:47 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

It's looking very nice Erok! Shaping the rough carpentry into the final shape is the best part.
Old 10-02-2008, 06:02 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Thanks Pigg. Of course the little woman is not thrilled with the shavings that escape and dot the dining room floor, but I kinda like it. The planing and cutting are done and I've given it a couple of rounds of rough sanding with 220. I'll probably hit it one last time tomorrow morning and then take a pass with 400 and call it good.

I must put the engine in the bay at least 3 times a day, attach the wing and then pick up the fuse and pretend I'm zoom-zooming it around the house. Luckily no one's caught me yet... I'm very happy with the lines, the weight is spot on so far, and I'm going to have enough clearance to put whatever prop I want on the front. Fiberglassing starts soon and thats another one of my favorite building steps!

EG
Old 10-04-2008, 09:34 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

The Pacer .15 is sanded down so it's time to start the finishing process, and I'm going to fiberglass the fuse and put polyspan on the wing. I normally use silkspan or koverall for open areas, but both of these have downsides for me - silkspan is too fragile, and koverall doesn't sand so seams are an issue. I used polyspan for the first time on my .074 Pacer and it worked pretty well. It's not woven so it's more difficult than koverall on compound curves, but it sands better than koverall although not nearly as well as silkspan. I guess I'm still looking for that "perfect" non-film covering material. Hopefully I'll pick up a few more of polyspan's secrets this time, and any tips and/or suggestions are appreciated.

Fiberglass is my preferred finish for sheeted areas, and after a few initial fiberglass disasters I've finally learned to use just enough resin to attach the fiberglass to the plane. Globbing on the resin may give the appearance of a smooth surface, but when sanding starts subtle peaks and valleys appear which need to be smoothed out. This leads to more intense sanding and inevitably I sand through the fiberglass, which means more resin, which means more sanding, which means more resin... I've learned that a good resin application clearly shows the fiberglass weave with the surface slightly dull and not glossy. I use the lightest fiberglass I can find - Sig's 0.56oz/yd - and Z-poxy finishing resin which cures very hard and sands easily. Since the Pacer has much less than a yard of surface area, the fiberglass cloth weight is negligible, and if I can just go easy on the resin...

Before starting I brush on a few coats of sanding sealer. Balsa soaks up resin like a sponge and this step will prevent that. I always glass the control surfaces first as it warms me up for the larger areas, and work with small batches of resin. I thin the resin slightly with denatured alcohol so it spreads more easily - the weave in the ultralight fiberglass is very delicate and too much pushing and pulling will cause it to separate. Since curing resin and cameras aren't the best of friends, I only have "after" pictures of this process. Once the resin dries I'll cut off the excess fiberglass, then sand off any loose fibers so I'm ready to apply to the next area and can feather the overlap.

Since the resin takes several hours to cure, I'll start prepping the wing with a few coats of nitrate dope.

EG
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:12 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Erok, the secret to making this hobby seem less offensive to the women folk is to start another hobby that seems even worse. I think I'm going to start collecting old rusty bear traps and hang them up all over the house. This way, having a few engines soaking in the sink and some balsa shavings scattered around won't seem like such a big deal.
A "classic" beer can collection for the fireplace mantle is another idea. I'm looking for one of the old Burgermeister cans, BTW.

Sanding cured fiberglass in the house might be a little bit "over the line", if you don't remember to pass out dust masks to everyone first.
Old 10-04-2008, 03:19 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Yeah, I thought my celebrity tobacco-spit collection would have qualified, but I guess I'll have to dig deeper...
Old 10-06-2008, 06:44 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Zoom Zoom!
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:08 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

More progress! Fiberglassing is done and it's time to move to the garage for sanding, doping, and painting.

The fuse gets a round of light sanding with 220 grit. The goal is to take off the high areas and get prepped for the primer which will fill the weave. Last year PT turned me on to Nelson's Hobby Paint and I'm trying out Nelson's 2 part epoxy primer on this plane. The directions say that it won't need much thinning, but the primer is thick and gooey and does not spread easily. I keep on adding water until it applies more easily but I'm still not thrilled. It sets up very quickly and if I need to feather adjoining sections it tends to clump up. I'll assume first time user error and give Nelson's Epoxy Primer a couple of more attempts before saying "Harumph!" and banishing it to the back of my paint shelf. As a comparison, I shoot the rudder and elevator with Dupli-Color primer. I've used this on other projects and recall that it goes on well and sands evenly.

While the primer is drying I start covering the wing, and I've already applied several coats of dope to the frame. The wingtips get covered first - they're compound curves and since polyspan is relatively stiff I'm expecting some difficulties and unsightly wrinkles. I'm able to wrap the polyspan over the last rib and this helps smooth out the majority of wrinkles and other fugly stuff. In hindsight, I should have used koverall for the wingtips. Next time... The main wing area gets covered with a single piece of polyspan. It gets attached on the wing bottom at the trailing edge, pulled forward and wrapped over the leading edge, then attached at the trailing edge of the wing top. Because the leading edge is tapered the top section of polyspan needs to be cut at the wing center, and this seam will be hidden when the wing is attached to the fuse. A little help from the heat gun tightens everything up and the wing is ready for additional coats of dope.

I've noticed that there are smallish holes in the polyspan weave. They're larger than pin holes and the dope is going to go (and in fact does go) right through. I had similar issues with my regular Pacer but not to this extent. I'm not sure if I used too much heat but these holes are going to be very noticeable in the painted finish and need to be filled. I'll try mixing baby powder into the dope to see if that works. I really don't want to apply additional sheets of polyspan, but the holes gotta go.

I'm thinking that this plane needs a better name than "Pacer .15." Since this Pacer is in-between the Pacer and Super Pacer size-wise, maybe Mid-Pacer, or even Pacemaker?

Any thoughts?

EG
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:07 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

The fuselage is sanded and it’s a tossup whether I like Nelson’s primer or the Duplicolor better. DC applies more easily but I’ll give NP another try on the next plane to see if my technique improves. Besides, I’ve got a huge bottle of Nelson’s!

The baby powder and dope seems to have worked wonders on the wing, and the majority of holes in the polyspan have been filled. Unfortunately, it took several coats of the mixture to achieve this and my wing weight is starting to creep.

With everything filled and sanded it’s time to start painting and I’ll paint the Pacemaker yellow in honor of its departed predecessor. That means I need a base coat of white as experience with previous yellow planes tells me that a few coats of white will spare me many coats of yellow.

With the white base applied I’m ready for the color coats, but I'm out of time so that'll have to wait until next weekend. Here are some shots of the Pacemaker after priming and sanding, and then after the white base coats. What a beautiful fall day here in PA!

EG
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:50 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

If it warms up enough outside today then I'm going to paint, and I've attached a picture of the paint scheme. Should be easy to see in the air!

Not sure if I'm going to tape off the color changes, or try doing the lines by hand. I've got a nice double-action airbrush but Nelson's paint requires several coats, which means doing the lines by hand several times. Hmmm.

EG
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:29 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

EG,
VERY nice! I still like the name "Pacer Wagon" Though!
Dave
http://jalopnik.com/5060916/amc-pace...round-and-wide
Old 10-18-2008, 04:25 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Dave - I'm not sold on Pacemaker either, but I see this plane as more of a coupe than a wagon.

As CP said initially: Muscle plane! Racer Pacer, Industrial Pacer, Cardiac Pacer, Screaming Pacer, Chaser Pacer, Tracer Pacer, Laser Pacer, and my current favorite - Tequlia Body-Shot Pacer!

I guess the name search continues...

EG
Old 10-20-2008, 06:17 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Made some painting progress this weekend, and decided to use tape after all. Only bummer was that some of the white base pulled off the wing when I removed the tape. No issues with this on the stabilizer. I'm guessing that Nelson's does not bond perfectly over dope. Guess I'll be getting some low-tack tape for the rest of the wing painting.

Red stripes are next, then the black!

EG
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:12 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Wow! That's nice! It looks from here like it will be able to do it all and look good doing it.
Old 10-23-2008, 07:46 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Thanks CP. Hopefully you're correct on both counts!

It's been frosting here at night and only getting up to the mid-Fifties during the day. I want to get this beast finished and in the air but am rapidly running out of garage painting weather. (No comments from you folks in the Canadian weather band about being a sissy, ok? I know some of you fly when it's -10F outside!)

EG
Old 10-23-2008, 11:59 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Eroc, I feel your pain!
We have had 3 days of 70 degree weather so painting has been my top priority. And all summer long while you were baking i was in a fog shrouded 58-60 high cursing my blushed paint[:@]. Actually driving my planes inland to the heat to paint
Old 10-24-2008, 06:39 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

RRob - Our corporate offices are in the Bay area and I've experienced the fog first-hand. SF is one of my favorite cities to visit, in part becuz one of my favorite bands called it home (I'm an in-the-closet Dead-head).

The DNU in my avatar was built and flown while I was doing a consulting gig in Sacramento. Amazing how SF stays at 60F while Sacramento bakes at 100F, and SF was almost always shrouded in fog when we rolled in for landings - Very scenic from up in the air. You should have seen the looks on the luggage-checkers faces when they found my RC gear in my luggage and I'm still surprised they let me through! I spent a lot of time and $$ that summer in RC Country Hobbies.

EG
Old 10-30-2008, 06:54 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: Modified Pacer .15 Build Thread

Progress is really slowing down due to work and outside temps.

I sprayed the red stripes this past weekend, but the low tack tape wasn't much help as it also pulled the paint and primer off the polyspan / doped areas. It's not noticeable in the pix, but it's very clear when you're up close and in person. After spending significant time prepping and sanding this is really annoying, and I've got an email in to Nelson 's Hobby to get his thoughts on ways to get their paint to adhere better on dope. I hand-painted the affected areas so that they won't be too noticeable, and will try rubbing with MEK and light sanding this weekend.

The good news is that the only thing left is the black paint! With a little luck I'll be airborne on Sunday!

EG
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