putt_13

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Ok, now the mother of questions....

I have flown electric for 9 months, and know quite a bit about thrust to weight ratios, and prop size and battery voltage. But with glow, I am a newbie. I have learned a lot from you guys though. Now, I am used to figuring out what prop to use, by looking at charts like this . Now, that makes perfect sense to me. With glow models, they dont use those charts, they talk in RPM's, prop pitch, and nitro content. So, is there a formula I can use to find out how many OZ of thrust I will be putting out, with a certain engine, and a certain fuel, with a certain prop. I was thinking RPM's X Prop Pitch Divided By 16(oz per pound). Just my thoughts. Thanx -Patrick

PS- Is it easy to hand-start a broken in Norvel .061???

William Robison

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Pat:

There are thrust to RPM charts, but most people use wing area and total weight to figure power loading on piston engined planes.

I've never seen an easy hand starting Norvel.

Bill.

putt_13

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Ok, I get this, but I still dont know how many ounces of thrust the .061 produces. Like, If I want to go vertical, but I need to have more thrust than weight, how light will the airplane have to be. Thanx -Patrick

Bipe Flyer

Go to http://www.bmaps.net/ , click on goodies and download thrusthp.

You have to be able to flip pretty fast to hand start a Norvel. The optional spring starter works well.

putt_13

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Shucks....looks like I need a starter also. Dont 1/2A need a faster RPM starter that .46 engines and such?? THanx -Patrick

That program looks nice. I downloaded it, and then extracted the files. I clicked on the icons, and none of them start the Set-Up, so how do I get the program working?

William Robison

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Patrick:

I got the little Sullivan starter from Tower. Recommended.

Bill.

Bipe Flyer

Follow this link to read my post on starters.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...61#post1158778

There should be one named setup.exe with an icon that looks like a computer with a box of disks. I've attached a pic..

putt_13

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OK,
I have that logo, and I double click it. Nothing pops up, or promts me to start the set-up process. I have re-downloaded it, but the same thing happens. -Patrick

putt_13

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Ok,
I just got all my stuff from Norvel. Wow, I had no idea the engine is going to be that small. I just got the gaskets, and they were so tiny. Also, my glow plugs came with this small copper circular washer/gasket. It is bent in the package....is it supposed to have a slight bend in it? Thanx -Patrick

putt_13

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ALso,
Aren't the Norvel mounts supposed to have holes drilled into the arms, so you have a place to screw the engine into. Mine has holes for mounting to a firewall, but not any to mount to the motor. Thanx -Patrick

Bipe Flyer

You have to drill the holes yourself.

William Robison

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Pat:

Dinky little thing, isn't it?

The copper ring that came with the glow head is the "Shim" we've been talking about. And no, it's not supposed to have a bend. Flatten it carefully and it'll be OK. And you should have gotten two or three extra with the engine. Or they used to give you extra ones. If they didn't just order four or five more glow heads, the gaskets/shims don't have to be changed when you change the head.

I first went to Norvel to get better power than the Cox TeeDee 05 RC, and I had hoped for a lower idle. I did get more power, at the expense of ease of operation. But as the Norvels (Actually I'm using the "Real" Russian AMD engines in the Tiggerkitty) get more time on them they are getting nicer. Lower idle I didn't get.

One thing I did get, though. The Cox 05 RC was over $80, I got two Norvels for the price on one Cox. The Norvels are more expensive now, and the Cox r/c engines are no longer available.

Still have two Cox 05 RC engines, even though they didn't satisfy me for the Tiggerkitty they are doing very well in other uses.

Anyway, do your breakin on a stand, don't subject the plane to the load. And you can be doing the breakin as you build the plane - have the engine and airframe ready at the same time also.

Have fun.

Bill.

William Robison

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Patrick:
As Bipe Flyer said, you have to drill them yourself.

Bot DO NOT drill them until you have the mount in the fuselage, and enough of the fuselage built to tell how far forward or back the engine needs to sit. Hold the engine in place without drilling anything, and put a drop os CA on each mounting flange. That will keep the engine from moving as you mark the holes.

Best method of marking is either of two. Use the Great Planes "Dead Center" tool, or a drill bit that is a snug fit through the mounting holes of the engine.

If you use the GP tool follow the instructions that come with it, if using a snug fitting bit just drill enough to mark the mount.

Pop the engine off, pull the mount out and finish the holes with the proper size bit for the screws you're going to use.

HTH.

Bill.

putt_13

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Yeah,
I ordered three engine mounts. I have 2 engines. One for each engine, and then I am making a breaking in stand out of some left-over boards. What makes me mad is that I FORGOT to order props. Now I have to order some props. I am putting some air tool oil into the cylinder tonight. Thats what they say to do on the norvel site. THanx -Patrick

putt_13

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BTW, I wrote to norvel about the bent gaskets, and they are sending me some for free. Good service -Patrick

And MAN, are these engines tiny. My COX .049 Babe Bee was bigger than this .061..At least it seemed bigger. -Patrick

Bipe Flyer

I made a test stand for my ½A engines from some aluminum bar stock. Here's a drawing.

putt_13

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Hello,
I just got some Marvel Air Tool Oil. This will work for after-run oil...right? Also, I have some Husqvarna XP Premium Superior Performance Formula Two Stroke Engine Oil. I think will will work for the 24 hr cure period, but it says it has fuel stabilizer in it. Will this affect the curing process. Also, should I let it cure for 24 hrs, and then put some more oil it, and starting turning the prop over by hand?? Thanx -Patrick

PS- I ask all these questions as I dont want to make a dumb mistake and ruin a brand new engine. THanx -Patrick

putt_13

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Hello,
Here is a little drawing of what I want my Break-In stand to look like. -Patrick

William Robison

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Patrick:

Bad idea. get the fuel tank down approximately level with the carb, otherwise you'll siphon the fuel into the engine.

Bill.

putt_13

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I just read that tip. Thanx for the advice. Ok, my needle valve isnt supposed to be screwed all the way into the threads, right. Because, if it is supposed to be screwed in all the way, it wont rotate clockwise. Also, is the throttle level supposed to move when I move the needle valve. Lastly, how do you not chop your hand up when you try to rotate that little piece of wire on the end of the needle valve. Its like a 1/2 inch from the prop. THanx -Patrick

PS- I just found a Nylon 5x2 prop. Will this work for break-in?

William Robison

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Patrick:

Different Norvels have different carbs. On mine the needles do not turn with the throttle barrels. Just go according to whatever your instructions say.

How do you adjust the needle while the engine is running? Very carefully. But the prop blade leads into the back, so if you do get hit it's usually just a slightly painful slap without any real damage.

And if you can get it started with the 5x2 prop it will be good for breakin, as you want the engine to run 16K rpm or higher while you run it in, but still without a great load on it. Wouldn't fly it with a 5x2, though.

Bill.

putt_13

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THanx...I just wanted to know if the 5x2 would work for break-in. I might as well go and build my break-in stand. So, the tank should be level with the carb. OK, also, will that 2-stroke engine oil work for the 24 hr curing process. It has fuel stablizer in it...will this hurt the engine. Lastly, there are those copper ring gaskets and these engine gaskets. Which one is the shim, because it seems like the engine gaskets would effect compression more than the glow plug gaskets. THanx -Patrick

putt_13

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Also, on my fuel tank, the Hayes Regular Fuel Tank 2 oz. the black nipple thingy that goes into the tank. Now they say to use vaseline on it, but wouldnt it be better to glue it into place, so that it cant fall out during flight. Thanx -Patrick

putt_13

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The engine oil is BLUE. I dont know why, but will it hurt the engine. I have a small amount sitting in the bottom of the cylinder. -Patrick

William Robison

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Pat:

That two stroke oil with fuel stabilizer is intended for gasoline fuels, not alcohol. I don't know what, if any, effect it will have on your engine. My favorite soak/preserve/after run/general purpose model engine oil is plain old air tool oil, also known as Dexron ATF. But you're new to these little things, I strongly recommend using whatever Norvel says to use.

Unless I'm mistaken, the engine gaskets, plug gaskets, and shims you got are all the same inside and outside diameters. The only variation you might find is thickness. You'll need a micrometer or a good caliper to tell which is which, but whatever, the fewer you can use to get the needed total thickness the better.

Do not glue the stopper into the fuel tank. Using muffler pressure the highest you will get is maybe 4"-5" water pressure, and it takes a lot more than that to blow up a balloon, much less blow the stopper out.

And the oil sitting in the bottom of the cylinder will do you no good at all - it's the TOP that really needs the soaking. Take the glow head off, put your oil in a shallow pan or metal can, enogh to cover the engine when you drop it in. Then heat the whole mess to 215-220 degrees, certainly no more than 225 as most oils start to break down a little over 300, 225 gives you good safety margin. You can judge the temp by allowing a drop of water to fall on the surface of the oil. If the water drop just hits and does nothing it's not hot enough. If it almost explodes the oil is too hot. Ideally it'll just sort of puff and either disappear, or make a small vapor cloud. Of course if you have a thermometer that will work up there, a baking thermometer or an infrared unit, that's best.

By keeping the oil and cylinder temperatures in this range you can soak for an hour and get more oil absorbed than by a 24 hour soak at ambient temperature.

Forgot to buy props? That's like planning for sandwiches at a picnic, buying all the fillers and garnishes, then leaving the store without bread. What's up with you? Haw.

Don't remember if you were the one who asked, but the entrance exam for the Non Compos Mentis Society is the only test in the world where the least number of questions answered correctly indicates the highest qualification. Any moron can pass, a genius is not qualified to join. But we make exceptions for anyone foolish enough to play with these r/c toys.

Bill.